Nuklear bomb

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Splitter

If there is another theory I would like to hear it .

Splitter

It's something in between.

I don't have time now, I need cigs and groceries, but I'll see what I can dig up tonight, documents and stuff.

[Friendly_flyer]

Originally Posted by Splitter

That would be about the best use my tax dollars have been put to in years lol. There is no curiosity on why so much aid goes there. It makes sense that we would back Israel so much financially because if they were not strong militarily they would have been over run in one of the past attacks.

I am glad we got that squared away, then. The reason I brought this up is that in common English, giving military support to a well off nation is not considered "foreign aid", rather "military alliance". Claiming the US is a major foreign aid contributer is only possibly by redefining military alliances to go under the heading of aid. Also, if you consider the size of the American economy, the US is actually a minor contributor (13 million against a GDP of 14,256 billion, while e.g. Norway contribute 1,8 billion against a GDP of 383 billion). The myth of the US as a major contributor is just that, a myth. The US is a sovereign nation and can spend their money as they see fit, but I do object to the obvious newspeak to cower the fact that their politics is mostly stick and very little carrot.

The next myth I'd like to point out is the notion of Israel as some kind of underdog under threat from their neighbours. Even a cursory glance at the development of the Israeli map shows otherwise. Note that the US only became a close alley after the 1967 war, so all previous expansion Israel managed perfectly well on their own. The idea of all other Middle Eastern nations being ready to attack Israel is also false. In reality the only outspoken enemies of Israel are Syria, Lebanon, Iran and the Palestineans. As noted, the remaining are mostly rhetoric, particularly considering all other Middle Eastern states are to some degree allies of the US. Just to top it off, Israel have nuclear arms, making any nation-against-nation war unthinkable. In reality, Israel is top dog in the area, free to attack and bomb neighbouring states with impunity.

(Just for the record, I am not Jewish. I know people are wondering because I support Israel, but that is not why).

I a not surprised. The few Jews I have met (Israeli and non-Israeli) are not to pleased with the "speciel US/Israeli friendship". In their estimate, the dynamic of the alliance stops bout Israel from dealing with certain serious internal political issues and stops bout states from having a meaningful relationship with Israels imediate neigbours.

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Originally Posted by Friendly_flyer

I am glad we got that squared away, then. The reason I brought this up is that in common English, giving military support to a well off nation is not considered "foreign aid", rather "military alliance". Claiming the US is a major foreign aid contributer is only possibly by redefining military alliances to go under the heading of aid. Also, if you consider the size of the American economy, the US is actually a minor contributor (13 million against a GDP of 14,256 billion, while e.g. Norway contribute 1,8 billion against a GDP of 383 billion). The myth of the US as a major contributor is just that, a myth. The US is a sovereign nation and can spend their money as they see fit, but I do object to the obvious newspeak to cower the fact that their politics is mostly stick and very little carrot.

The next myth I'd like to point out is the notion of Israel as some kind of underdog under threat from their neighbours. Even a cursory glance at the development of the Israeli map shows otherwise. Note that the US only became a close alley after the 1967 war, so all previous expansion Israel managed perfectly well on their own. The idea of all other Middle Eastern nations being ready to attack Israel is also false. In reality the only outspoken enemies of Israel are Syria, Lebanon, Iran and the Palestineans. As noted, the remaining are mostly rhetoric, particularly considering all other Middle Eastern states are to some degree allies of the US. Just to top it off, Israel have nuclear arms, making any nation-against-nation war unthinkable. In reality, Israel is top dog in the area, free to attack and bomb neighbouring states with impunity.



I a not surprised. The few Jews I have met (Israeli and non-Israeli) are not to pleased with the "speciel US/Israeli friendship". In their estimate, the dynamic of the alliance stops bout Israel from dealing with certain serious internal political issues and stops bout states from having a meaningful relationship with Israels imediate neigbours.

Yes Petter, its strange how the majority of US citizens are taken in by the media perpetuated fantasy that they are somehow the 'kindest people on Earth' *TM*, nowhere near in fact. as you point out proportionally the Scandinavian countries are by far the biggest givers. I'm pleased to say the UK is not too far behind. The US relative to their massive wealth are in fact extremely tight fisted. Over to you, President Jimmy Carter;

"when I travel in a foreign country, particularly Africa, my wife and I have been in 110 different countries, our nation is not looked upon as a champion of peace and as the most generous country on earth. In fact, we are the stingiest country on earth. Every time a Norwegian gives a dollar in foreign assistance for needy people, we give three cents."

Never mind, way OT, carry on.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by RCAF_FB_Orville

Yes Petter, its strange how the majority of US citizens are taken in by the media perpetuated fantasy that they are somehow the 'kindest people on Earth' *TM*, nowhere near in fact. as you point out proportionally the Scandinavian countries are by far the biggest givers. I'm pleased to say the UK is not too far behind. The US relative to their massive wealth are in fact extremely tight fisted. Over to you, President Jimmy Carter;

"when I travel in a foreign country, particularly Africa, my wife and I have been in 110 different countries, our nation is not looked upon as a champion of peace and as the most generous country on earth. In fact, we are the stingiest country on earth. Every time a Norwegian gives a dollar in foreign assistance for needy people, we give three cents."

Never mind, way OT, carry on.

I was waiting for someone to bring "Smiley" into the discussion lol. Carter was a disaster as president and nearly as detrimental in his post presidential life. I WILL give him the fact that he has an organization that does a wonderful job building affordable housing (I've even volunteered for that and I think the man is an embarrassment).

We have a group here in American that we call the "Blame America First" brigade. Some of you would love them . Carter is pretty close to the top of that list. He did more to harm the US in his four years both economically and mentally than any president in history.

There is a reason the Iranians held onto the hostages for 444 days but then magically decided to release them as soon as Carter was out and Ronald "the bombing will begin in 15 minutes" Reagan took over.

Even the Democrats cringe when they talk about him. Don't expect to be seeing him on any currency any time soon .

BTW, I too wish we would do away with our foreign aid programs. Even the recipients have no loyalty and, as you all have pointed out, it will never be enough to change the impression of the US in some parts of the world. We are beyond broke anyway.

I am sorry, guys, but you have the wrong impression of the American media. We have three major television networks, all are left of center and part of the blame American first brigade. Of the cable networks, two are extreme left wing. The two you probably see are CNN and FOX...CNN is about as far left as FOX is right. Of the remaining newspapers, probably 9 of 10 are leftist. The left in this country is not "pro USA" and the leftist media outlets far outnumber the right.

If any indoctrination is going on with our youth, it is through our schools and media....all dominated by the left and for the most part agreeing with you.

And this goes back to pre-WWII mentalities. "It's not our war" as a mantra.

Splitter

[AndyJWest]

I am sorry, guys, but you have the wrong impression of the American media. We have three major television networks, all are left of center and part of the blame American first brigade. Of the cable networks, two are extreme left wing. The two you probably see are CNN and FOX...CNN is about as far left as FOX is right. Of the remaining newspapers, probably 9 of 10 are leftist. The left in this country is not "pro USA" and the leftist media outlets far outnumber the right.

'Leftist' in comparison to what? How exactly was this astonishing revelation arrived at? Or is it just the opinion of someone on the right...

I notice you criticise Carter (an easy target), but don't actually answer the point raised about US foreign aid. Then again, you seem to do this with any objection to your comments.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

'Leftist' in comparison to what?

LOL ... reminds of my time on a Student Union back in the 70's when two factions were fighting over control of the national body and got to the point of fire bombing each others cars and houses

The two factions fighting it out ? ... the Maoists and the Leninists
I was regarded as fairly centre/right being an anarchist at the time.

With a few exceptions like the KKK and the odd crackpot Christian blowing up abortion clinics, American politics tends to cluster around the middle.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

'Leftist' in comparison to what? How exactly was this astonishing revelation arrived at? Or is it just the opinion of someone on the right...

I notice you criticise Carter (an easy target), but don't actually answer the point raised about US foreign aid. Then again, you seem to do this with any objection to your comments.

Time out. I think I have answered just about everything. My post was about the fact that we should cut out foreign aid and anything that comes out of Carter's mouth should be taken with a grain of salt. Given his history as an abject failure, it's probably a good idea to no take anything he says seriously.

You make me repeat myself: we should cut off foreign aid because it gains us nothing....and we are too broke to afford such charity. After all, it's either a political tool (failure) or charity (which is unappreciated).

Now answer my questions from post 147 . They were mainly directed at you and you didn't answer. Of course, as you will probably tell me, you are under no obligation to answer....

Splitter

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

LOL ... reminds of my time on a Student Union back in the 70's when two factions were fighting over control of the national body and got to the point of fire bombing each others cars and houses

The two factions fighting it out ? ... the Maoists and the Leninists
I was regarded as fairly centre/right being an anarchist at the time.

With a few exceptions like the KKK and the odd crackpot Christian blowing up abortion clinics, American politics tends to cluster around the middle.

Well if the left is totalitarian and the right is anarchy with democracy smack in the middle, our country was founded right of center (republic). However, the movement currently is toward socialism which is obviously about that same distance left of center.

It's true that we have few communists/Nazis and fewer still anarchists. Our politics generally go from socialist on the left to "constitutionalist" on the right.

We swung about as far left as we have ever been thanks to Bush's second term and are pretty far down the road to socialism. Now the rubberband is snapping back and our legislative body will probably be right of center after November. Obama's approval ratings are in the Bush second term range so chances are he is a one term president....just like Carter.

BTW....people need to stop calling Nazi's "right wing". They hang out on the extreme left with the communists. The extreme right is reserved for anarchists with no government involvement.

(So how were you slightly right of center as an anarchist? lol. Cool anecdote)

Splitter

[AndyJWest]

Time out. I think I have answered just about everything.

I don't. Still, I'll let that pass for now, and deal with your post 147. I assume these are the questions you refer too - everything else in that post looks like an assertion dressed up as a question:

Do you think Iran is seeking nuclear power simply to supply their own energy needs?
Do you think Iran will use their nuclear capability to develop weapons?
Once they develop nuclear weapons, do you think they will use them to threaten their neighbours or the world's oil supply?
Do you think they would make good on their threats to bomb Tel-Aviv?
Does it appear sanction are working?

Let's deal with them one at a time:

Do you think Iran is seeking nuclear power simply to supply their own energy needs?

No. I think they are doing it mostly as an act of defiance.

Do you think Iran will use their nuclear capability to develop weapons?

Possibly. Though if the objective is deterrence, they don't need to develop such weapons, merely arouse reasonable doubt that they might have.

Once they develop nuclear weapons, do you think they will use them to threaten their neighbours or the world's oil supply?

This is a leading question. Let's rephrase it: "If they develop nuclear weapons, do you think they would..."
Which neighbours? What sort of threat? In any case, 'the world's oil supply' isn't confined to the middle east, and one assumes that such threats would be reciprocated.

Do you think they would make good on their threats to bomb Tel-Aviv?

Another leading question. I've seen no evidence that any such threat was ever made.

Does it appear sanction[s] are working?

Not particularly. Given all the uncertainties above, and the abject failure of the US to address the fundamental problems that lead to the situation in the first place, I don't see any alternative. Do you?

If your solution is 'bomb Iran' (or get your Israeli puppet state to do it for you), then the Iranian's supposed objective of acquiring a nuclear deterrent seems entirely logical under the circumstances.

[AndyJWest]

BTW....people need to stop calling Nazi's "right wing". They hang out on the extreme left with the communists.

An outright lie. Worthy of Joseph Goebbels himself. Learn a little history...