Yanks and their MG's

[David603]

Originally Posted by Friendly_flyer

The problem is that the .50 did not do it's job well. It was adequate, but nothing more. Bout the USAF and USN wanted 20mm, the Navy so desperately that they were willing to ignore the reliability problems of the US-made M3.

For the USAF the problem was not so much lack of destructive power, as much as weight. They compensated for the lack of power of the .50 by adding more guns, but the Browning was a heavy gun (29 kg). In a plane like the Thunderbolt, it did not matter much, but the Mustang was really pressed to the edge weight-wise. If the Mustang had a Hispano in each wing, it would have had just a little bit less firepower than it did with 6 Brownings, yet would weigh roughly 100 kilo less (depending on whether we are talking Hispano II or V). Imagine a 100 kg lighter Mustang!

Would rather have 4 Hispano V with Tempest style ammo load-outs. At 42Kg each, you would have an armament that weighs 168Kg total, compared to 174Kg for 6 Browning M2s, yet it would have firepower equal to 12 M2s (Going by USN tests that value the Hispano as being 3 times as destructive as the M2).

Heck, you could have 6 Hispano Vs in a Thunderbolt (252Kg) replacing the 8 M2s (232Kg) for firepower equal to 18 M2s, or you could go with just 4 guns and a whole load of ammo.

[Buren]

I never had problems with the Thunderbolt's armament - just set the convergence at like 175 m, zoom on the sucker and let him have it. You can easily down 4 B29s aiming at the engines with extra ammo.

On a side note does someone know how frequent was the 6 gun installation on the Jug? There was an interview posted on simhq forums a very long time ago with a Jug pilot and he was surprised to hear that the 47 had 8 guns - he said they always had 6)

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Buren

I never had problems with the Thunderbolt's armament - just set the convergence at like 175 m, zoom on the sucker and let him have it. You can easily down 4 B29s aiming at the engines with extra ammo.

On a side note does someone know how frequent was the 6 gun installation on the Jug? There was an interview posted on simhq forums a very long time ago with a Jug pilot and he was surprised to hear that the 47 had 8 guns - he said they always had 6)

This was discussed recently elsewhere.

Both 6 or 8 guns were standard options. the 8 gun option carried less ammunition to compensate for the weight of the extra browning and had other performance limitations. I think overall in real life 6 guns was usually preferred though I am not 100% sure on that.

In games of course people will go for 8 guns every time.

[KnightFandragon]

Really the P47 had 6 guns? Dang, I always thought it was the one plane that always had 8 guns haha. In Il2 its 50cals seem to be the deadliest, its either they are actually coded to be more deadly due to the ammo its got or its juist the weight of fire from its guns but ive got more instant kills w/ the P47s 8 guns then any other plane. its a good plane in game but its kinda stall like in dogfights and sharp turns....50% fuel makes it manageable atleast =D Lolz, also, has anoyone else noticed the D27 flies better then the D27 Late? My uncle and i experimented w/ planes and the P47s were one of them and my uncle noticed that the D27 Late liked to stall the most and handled the worst of them all....after he mentioned it I flew the different versions and kinda noticed it also.

[Buren]

I know for sure that all of the 4th Fighter Group Tbolts had 6 guns.
This is an example of a 6 gun 47. If you look closely you can see that the outmost gun ports are covered. No idea which particular fighter group this plane is from.
The six gun option was probably more common with the earlier variants of the Jug considering they had a more immature version of the engine, not sure about the details though. :S

My only real gripe with the Jug ingame that the 3d cockpit is subpar compared to all other examples.
DT should at least try to retexture/replace the gunsight, that orange blob is just plain ugly.

@WTE_Galway
Could you link to that discussion please? Many thanks.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Buren

@WTE_Galway
Could you link to that discussion please? Many thanks.

It was spread through one of those endless "0.50 cal are nerfed" troll threads that popup over on UBI regularly.

I don't have it linked but do have some of the reference material linked from it, all of which mentions 6 and 8 gun versions but none say anything conclusive about what was used when and where:



P47 tactical trials:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...-47c-afdu.html

Flight manual (unfortunately I think the preview of the trigger and gun section has been removed)
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...page&q&f=false


P47 test flight journal from June 1943
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1

[BadAim]

Buren, The outermost gun is covered with tape to protect it from debris. The other guns have condoms over them. This was a common practice.

[Buren]

@BadAim

Oh, ok. It looked way too similar to a model of a 6 gun example.

@WTE_Galway

Thanks. Going to check them out.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

Really the P47 had 6 guns? Dang, I always thought it was the one plane that always had 8 guns haha. In Il2 its 50cals seem to be the deadliest, its either they are actually coded to be more deadly due to the ammo its got or its juist the weight of fire from its guns but ive got more instant kills w/ the P47s 8 guns then any other plane. its a good plane in game but its kinda stall like in dogfights and sharp turns....50% fuel makes it manageable atleast =D Lolz, also, has anoyone else noticed the D27 flies better then the D27 Late? My uncle and i experimented w/ planes and the P47s were one of them and my uncle noticed that the D27 Late liked to stall the most and handled the worst of them all....after he mentioned it I flew the different versions and kinda noticed it also.

There's some debate as to 6 or 8 gun P-47s in wartime use. The standard configuration was 8 guns but P-47s were some of the most field modified aircraft so I wouldn't be surprised at the removal of guns for increases elsewhere.

It's the same code for the .50cals in the P-47 but having 8 definitely is more destructive than 4 or 6. I haven't noticed any difference in handling between the D-27 and the D Late. They are supposed to be the same with the D Late having a tweaked engine for higher performance (supposedly near M levels).

The P-47 can be flown successfully on some dogfight servers with only 25% fuel. That can also be offset by using fuel tanks plus the 25% fuel option. It handles much better without the extra fuel weighing it down. Like most US aircraft the P-47 carries substantial internal fuel and has better range than many of the German and Russian aircraft that have very short ranges.

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by IceFire

There's some debate as to 6 or 8 gun P-47s in wartime use. The standard configuration was 8 guns but P-47s were some of the most field modified aircraft so I wouldn't be surprised at the removal of guns for increases elsewhere.

It's the same code for the .50cals in the P-47 but having 8 definitely is more destructive than 4 or 6. I haven't noticed any difference in handling between the D-27 and the D Late. They are supposed to be the same with the D Late having a tweaked engine for higher performance (supposedly near M levels).

The P-47 can be flown successfully on some dogfight servers with only 25% fuel. That can also be offset by using fuel tanks plus the 25% fuel option. It handles much better without the extra fuel weighing it down. Like most US aircraft the P-47 carries substantial internal fuel and has better range than many of the German and Russian aircraft that have very short ranges.

Six or four, it was stunnishing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shsxu...eature=related