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| IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator. |
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#1
06-09-2010, 03:10 AM
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point being, you can have 4 or 5 players in those less-good-internet area play a coop over local phone lines, a lan meeting, or in their offices after hrs, wifi hot spots etc. having all these people dependent on a server check somewhere in the big modern world is just not realistic. i know oleg takes this in consideration, as he has in the past. good protections are also built into the game during development, not added on at the end as an afterthought (to easy to crack then). i have all confidence in oleg he wont just market his game for spoilt rich kids with uber net connections in the west, and he will have kept in mind lesser net access area's. the "usb key" suggested by the OP is not a bad idea imho. a bulk purchase for small size usb keys probably brings their price down to less then 1$, its a realistic alternative. i doubt oleg would use it, but its an option Last edited by zapatista; 06-09-2010 at 03:12 AM. 
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#2
06-09-2010, 04:14 AM
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The problem with using a hardware dongle is that there is a cost involved and they are not a 100% secure.
Hacker can still crack the software and bypass the activation code just as easily as they would a software method. At least with online verification a server can check if you've got a legitimate copy before it allows you to download any updates and patches etc. I don't mind the ROF method myself and have only been stung once witht the server being down. Cheers!
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#3
06-09-2010, 04:40 AM
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I'm sure the guys who would support such BS (= permanently online) would be the first to howl and scream murder once, a few years down the line, the publishers require club membership and monthly fees even for offline content. Have fun in that world ...
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#4
06-09-2010, 05:39 AM
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 One of my concerns would be how it would effect people like yourself and the rest of the TD people. Considering how much you guys have added to IL2, I'ld hope any DRM would allow some scope for input from community goups such as yourselves. I know it's not worth talking about modding even before a sim has been released, but my hopes are that SOW will be 'SO BIG' that there will be areas when you guys can have an input. Cheers!
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#5
06-09-2010, 06:04 AM
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The dongle (hardware to plug in) or usb thing won't work. Even software like Maya that costs $3-5K to buy and use, the very day of its new version release, the l33t hax0rz have cracked it by sundown.
Plus if you lose the dongle, then you have to go to support, they have physically mail you one. Overnighting . . . or two day, plus support staff can add up. The online thing, well that doesn't really fly. One has to look to many grounded ROF fliers in the beginning and that they removed it to see how effective that is. Also what if you have an intermittent connection *cough*DSL*cough*? The blizzard idea works because blizzard games have an online component that opens up a whole new realm to the game. But there are hacks around it. And Oleg n crew would have to form a "battle.net" online connection portal to manage the online variant of BOB SOW, which is key to the blizzard idea. And lots of people here would rather see them developing extras for BOB SOW and patching it versus spending time making a online battlenet portal. Plus there are lots of people that don't play IL-2 online, they love flying with squad mates, or doing maps / campaigns . . . and since BOB SOW will improve the AI, some would just be content Very strong securing software usually just locks out legitimate people, and irritates them, whilst the software pirates usually hack n slash their way to victory. Then there's the unique serial just for that game, but that takes coding and double checking for each and every game shipped . . . I think the serial in the box should be good enough. Besides given how large the flight sim community is and how good the representation of IL-2 for WW 2 enthusiasts, people will pay money, support the dev team, maybe even buy the game not just once, but twice or more. Last edited by hiro; 06-09-2010 at 06:08 AM.
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#6
06-09-2010, 05:56 AM
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The developers make the game and they themselves alone have every right in the world to protect their own game/property in any way they see fit no matter how much you twist and turn it. BS is only the talk of "wannabe pirates" scared that their product would be generated useless 5 years later, but let me enlighten you, we live in 2010 a time when protection is necessary. Why would you be so worried about whats gonna happen 5 years from now ? If you're really that paranoid maybe you're better off not investing in any products at all since even your home electricity can't be guaranteed and hey.. that would render just about anything in your home useless remember? As for methods i've no problem with whatever Oleg decides since its up to them, but most likely we'll see a master server for the online play this time around which automatically will prevent hackers from playing online unless the server binaries gets released to the public and hacked. Last edited by zauii; 06-09-2010 at 06:11 AM.
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#7
06-09-2010, 06:33 AM
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This is the publishers' way of injecting themselves into the distribution process again, to create new ways of accumulating revenue and tying customers to themselves so that they can milk them for all the $ or € they can. This is the reason for such systems, not piracy, not the grossly inflated claims from the suits in the beancounter departments. I have no issues with paying a sensible amount of money to make aircraft types flyable (like RoF does), but I will not grant a game development company or publisher (especially the latter) the right to milk me for marketing data, force me to violate a very fundamental security measure just for playing a game.
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#8
06-09-2010, 07:20 AM
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First and foremost the simulation market will probably disappear before anything like this even has the slightest chance of succeeding seeing as it's such a niche within a niche you'd have to look for a game like Call of Duty to find something like this attempted. And we've yet to see a Call of Duty with pay-per month have we? Please go ahead and round up all the games that have migrated from a firm model into a pay-per-month milking model at a later stage? Paranoia is all there is too it, nothing more nothing less and as stated the developers should take every precaution they can to protect their game / property. If it comes down to a Monthly fee with future games, then you can make up your own mind at the time and just not pay, I for once wouldn't pay for a fps or simulation per month, if the time comes you show this by not buying and using their products at that time. Argumentation against DRM / Protection today is just a bunch of paranoia, nothing suggests that SOW or 1C will pursuit a model that is based around a monthly payment. I feel its kinda equivalent to the current society paranoia that there are cameras everywhere and that the government controls your private life within a 10 year period... pathetic. However if a model like this would be attempted they would have to come up with something tempting for the customers such as major support, constant updates of content, patches similar to an MMO, which in the end many people might be completely fine with, if we get enough support , extra content constantly along with community features. Nothing i personally would like but their not just gonna pop up with a new business model tomorrow and magically hope for customers to accept it. Last edited by zauii; 06-09-2010 at 07:29 AM.
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#9
06-09-2010, 07:58 AM
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Are you really that obtuse? Introducing pay-to-play isn't a quick and dirty process, it's slow and will be done step by step because otherwise publishers are afraid to alienate the people and loose income. So they're doing it bit by bit and wait for the users to get used to the latest stage. Or have you taken a look at M$ online services for the XBox? Think that and go one step further ... Cloud computing, no longer purchasing a DVD (or whatever) but a key to access the software running on a remote server. A publisher's wet dream.
 Zauii ... I'm not opposed to anti-piracy measures but these have to work without impeding the use by an honest customer. DRM does not do this job, it's all about limiting the user's rights and artificially injecting the publisher into the process (because in the times of the web the publisher is becoming more and more superfluous to the development process apart from financing it). I have said it before (though not in this thread) but I have nothing against a onetime online verification of my copy, kinda like Windows does after installing it, or even a periodical check (with me deciding if I allow the connection), but being forced to remain connected continuously is a step beyond a threshold I will not make. If this is the future of PC gaming then by all means I'm out of it.
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#10
06-10-2010, 08:55 AM
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The funny thing is: The second hand market in used games is a bigger "loss" in revenue than piracy. Of course the developers whant a slice of that cake to. Are they intitled to? No, not morally nor legally. The piracy ghost is made up horseshit to give them the "right" to implement any control of an allredy sold item, legal or not. If its not legal they lobby to make it so, and "people" like u make it doable becaus u bye into theire whining about lost revenue when its not even thire buissnes what happens to a product once they sell it. Once again, do they have a legal leg to stand on? ONLY if we as costumers bye into the garbage. For fun, name one other company/segment geared towards mainstream consumer who would even get close to getting away with this bs. Cardealerships? Electronics? How about PC`s? Or music? What so special about game developers? Edit: Activation key done once when u install a new game is a far cry from constant internet connection. As far as iv read and heard constant internet connection to be able to play a game u bought, offline or online, isnt even legal when push comes to shove. Last edited by Baron; 06-10-2010 at 09:26 AM.
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