Oleg - Spitfire Cockpit.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by BOBC

Hi,
One could look at the case for correcting perceived important changes this way.
Compromising the finish date, though it does seem to be somewhat fluid, with perhaps just fixes for major observations anyone makes, needs to be balanced against the importance of those changes versus the addition of a vehicle or extra piece of ground equipment or even a bush type which may well not be missed if it wasn't there. ...

Would it be good to sacrifice the example of a schwimmwagen for a pair of Supermarine marked single tier rudder pedals, two fuel gauges and a large clock, three distinctive Mk 1 cockpit items ?
...

The ability to withstand G forces was increased with the introduction of the two tier pedals, raising feet up bent the legs and lessened blood flow to the legs, so Olegs BoB pilots have an advantage over the real BoB pilots if the raised pedals are written for in the code. Thus a non historical advantage over the Luftwaffe.

....

Should it be basics corrected, or another 1940 car type on the road ? I leave the choice to forum readers.

BOBC

Hi BobC

It all really depends on how balanced the developers want the game to be for it's players.

Flying for the RAAF most pilots would be more interested in aerial targets, but If your flying a Ju-87 you probably want a wide variety of ground targets to lay some hard loving on.

All the detail going into this sim will lay down foundations for the following releases. If we move to another theatre we'd see that perspective change. North Africa without any ground targets for the RAF would be sad! Without the proper foundations Oleg&Co will dig themselves into a hole where the next release would require a masive effort. If they do it right they just have to worry about the content and pull in the moo-la!

To get a balanced sim they will have different teams/developers working on seperate aspects of the sim. Sometimes their skill sets will not be transferable. Hey They're the experts and know what they're doing.

Also from my understanding all frontline Spitfires had been fitted with the two-step pedals by the Battle of Britain. That would leave the single step models being used in OTU's and second line areas. Is it worth having a seperate model for these minor area's?

I guess one of the problem is that by the battle of Britain the Spitfire had been in production for over two years and had been continually improved and upgraded throughout that time. There is no such thing as a "Standard" Mk1. The production Mk1 Spitfire of May '38 and those from September 40 were two very different beasts.

Cheers!

[jocko417]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Hi BobC

To get a balanced sim they will have different teams/developers working on seperate aspects of the sim. Sometimes their skill sets will not be transferable. Hey They're the experts and know what they're doing.

In defense of the 'rivet counters'...

Yes, they are the experts in creating extremely detailed simulations, but the correctness of the details is in direct proportion to the accuracy of their reference material.

There are many line drawings out there which show strakes above the wheel wells on early Spits, including the dust jacket illustrations drawn by Rikyu Watanabe for Bill Sweetman's SPITFIRE book of 1980, a popular publication in it's day. As most (if not all) surviving Mk. I Spitfires have the strakes installed it could be assumed that they were standard equipment in 1940. They were not. The Spit hanging in the IWM is a great example. It is seen as it appeared at the END of it's service life, not as it was when it came off the assembly line years earlier.

Also, as English (or German) is not the first language at 1C there have been spelling and/or grammatical errors made in the past (no fault of the developers, their English is still better than my Russian) in some cockpit placards, such as the "A <crown> N" label on the Art. Horizon in the Spit and Hurri cockpits. This was corrected to A <crown> M.

My point is that 1C should be congratulated for the huge job they have undertaken, I am awed by the amount of objects being added, like ground support items (fuel bowsers, accumulator carts, etc.) for the airfields, not generic ones, the ACTUAL equipment used by both sides. Getting all the small stuff right is the curse of offering that much detail in the first place. However, if anyone can pull off '1940 in a box', it's Oleg and Co.

[KG26_Alpha]

Well I just got back from Duxford and had quite a chat with a couple of the restoration guys there.

They are working on 3 Spits including a MkI and found it quite incredible anyone thinks there's a "standard" MkI pit.

I asked how they referenced the cockpit for the MkI and what its history was,

"It was one of the first 300 hundred produced and eventually went to an OTU where it was finally upgraded to MKV specification".

"There never was a typical MkI cockpit as there were too many modifications made at squadron level and constant improvement made during production, we have never found any early pits to be the same all are different to a certain degree".

"It would be quite silly to actually say "This is the standard MkI pit layout" it's impossible to be that precise".

I agreed but wanted to hear more, unfortunately I was in a restricted part of the hangar and the conversion ended as my camera started to level at some Spit parts on the work bench

Anyway

I was more interested in the HE111 they have there, and managed a really nice close walk round with another restoration fella, the main spars are useless and need replacing but with so many parts needed its become too expensive to restore.





As its a Spitfire thread here's one you wont see like this that often.

[BOBC]

Hi,
I hope I read wrong but thought something had been said about the He111 being scrapped. Just because it won't fly again is this reason to scrap a potential static and important exhibit. Imagine it back in Luft camouflage, tractored out to the Duxford line up. ..or is it that without new spars its dangerous even as static ? In which case other museums may also have an issue.

I am not aware of two tier pedals being used in the BoB. Being in touch with aviation archaeologists who have dug BoB aircraft for many years, they only ever found single tier. I shall check on this but thats my experience to date.
I also have studied all the BoB period crashed Spit Mk1 instrument panels and all were with two fuel gauges. Likewise all had the landing lamp switches and thus the landing lamp and thus the controller. All had the large clock hole and no step down plate for fitment of a smaller clock and both Volt and amp gauges.
The variations existed in the generator switch and flap gauge hole.
I agree its safer to say they were not all exactly the same spec, but certain features appear to have been common throughout as mentioned above.
I must pay a trip to Duxford as Spit Mk1s are my bread and butter !

The R serialled spitfire filmed just prior to the BoB (see dvd Spitfire - frontline fighter (IWM The Official Collection) has the features I refer to, so at that point in time, so did L and P series spits. I studied an X series panel and that too had those features.

BOBC

[KG26_Alpha]

Re: He111

Nope no mention of it being scrapped by me, IWM don't have the interest or funds.

1. Its a non WW2 historical ac
2. Too many parts missing
3. Spars are corroded

So with the Spars issue its a static display liability.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

1. Its a non WW2 historical ac

From the looks of that over-sprayed roundel, it's a Spanish-built model, a la the CASA 2.111.

[KG26_Alpha]

Hi


It was used as a transporter, then left as a spares donor for the rest of them.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

"It was one of the first 300 hundred produced and eventually went to an OTU where it was finally upgraded to MKV specification".

I am not sure if an example that was retired to a training unit and then fitted with a later cockpit (MkV was mid 1941) to keep it contemporary for training purposes is a particularly good example for your argument that DURING THE BATTLE no two MkI Spitfires were alike

[BOBC]

Quite right,
Now are Oleg and team aware of the errors and are they making a conscious decision to keep them, or are forum posters doing their decision making for them. I would like Oleg to reply to all this, to know that they want a later spit in this sim.
Oleg...where are you ?
BOBC

[Ze-Jamz]

Just seen this here...Such a good picture

thks