Rolling in a Bf 110

[MikkOwl]

That Fw 190 topic was so brilliant (I loved the advice, thanks guys) that I named my topic along the same name. Now let's see if anyone knows anything about how to fly the Bf 110, my favourite.

I have only found A SINGLE GUIDE on how to fly it - the WWII online wiki article. Nothing else. Here it is (and it is not bad, but there should be more out there): http://wiki.wwiionline.com/index.php/Bf110 Surely we have better information available so many years later. Aces here have more flight time and experience than any real WW2 pilot had, and the benefit of all the experience preserved from the WW2 pilots.

I imagine that P-38 flying tactics can be applied to the Bf 110 to some extent so feel free to share that if you know anything about how to fly the P-38. The planes are not that dissimilar. The 110 is a bit less agile while having a rear pair of eyes and a rear firing gun position. Climbs worse too and all that. But still.

To cover situations I commonly experience. What to do when...

1. Having lots of altitude above enemy fighter. How to bounce? Both if already detected and if not detected.

2. Coming near enemy fighter at comparable altitudes. Both with altitude and near the deck. And both when spotted and when not yet detected (the fighter highly likely to engage in dogfight due to superior maneuverability).

3. When about to be bounced by fighter. At altitude and when near the deck (especially if it keeps up the energy tactics).

4. When finding a fighter on one's six at comparable energy states, both at altitude and on the deck (under no circumstances do I want to hear anything about switching to gunner position and using the mouse).

5. Bomber without escort, catching up with it.

6. General air combat maneuvers that work and don't work in the Bf 110's. Yo-yo's are obviously one that work, and possibly long range shooting going head on since having much more system redudancy, heavier weapons and no convergence problems. Snap rolls? Barrel rolls? Slips with tons of flaps forcing a quick overshoot (like Stukas during BoB)? Hammerhead types?

7. Opinions on the regular loadout version (2xMG FF/M or 151s with 4xMg17). Are the Mg-17's useful at all? They have lots of ammo and they are always converged.

8. BordKanone 3.7 (Can shoot down bombers at 2km almost though aiming is difficult if much more than 1km. I brought this into combat before and shot at tempests busy chasing someone or running away, and they rarely seemed to notice the single light grey streaks coming past them. I guess they all expect the blue tracers of the 151 cannons. It especially seems like a fun proposal to try to gun down people running away on the deck, since it shoots super accurately and far with little drop, and a single hit is all it takes).

9. 2xMk.108 nose cannons instead of 4xMg17's. I think my two kills (one was a Thunderbolt near the deck and I was follpowing on it's six through some wild maneuvers. The other I think was a spitfire that turned in front of me) were done with the Mk.108's. How badly do they affect maneuvering? They don't weigh that much. They have some drop but they actually have higher velocity, and overtake, the 151's after a few hundred meters because the shells are so heavy they don't slow down as much from the air resistance).

10. MG 151 gunpods.

11. Offline I can do snap rolls often in the 110, but online it almost never works. Have ping of 140-180. Any knowledge on this issue? I am fairly skilled with snap rolling in aircraft and it is amazingly useful against the more sluggish spit/tempest type planes.

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You are my only hope.

[Avimimus]

Pray and runaway - usually works for me.

[Oktoberfest]

Hello MikkOwl. I know a little bit about the 110 so I will try to help you with what I can answer.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

I imagine that P-38 flying tactics can be applied to the Bf 110 to some extent so feel free to share that if you know anything about how to fly the P-38. The planes are not that dissimilar. The 110 is a bit less agile while having a rear pair of eyes and a rear firing gun position. Climbs worse too and all that. But still. [/B]

First to all, you have to be totally aware that the 110 is not the P-38. Nothing is similar to it especially with how the 110 is modeled to the P38 in this game. I will try to differentiate them point by point.

1- General Flying characteristics :

- Speed : 110 is slower at all altitudes. It retains energy far worse and it can dive less quickly.
i. VnE 110 is 700 kph. This reduce its efficiency in BnZ but you can still do things with that.
ii. Cruise speed is slow. Max IAS speed is 490 kph on the deck.
iii. Stall speed is pretty slow : about 150 kph with all out. You can indeed use it in combat to let the bad guy overshoot.
iv. Climbs worse than P38
v. Dive worse than P38.

- Manoeuvrability : Decent in turns actually. If you know how to handle it you can follow P-47s and P-51s easily in turns. You can follow a 38 and even slightly a Tempest. Forget about the Spit, of course, except if you are nearly out of fuel and he has 100% fuel J.
P38 manoeuvres generally as good with equivalent speed.
On one engine, the 38 has definitely the edge. 110 on one engine will fly at 220 – 240 Kph. P38 can run at 350 and even take altitude…

- Endurance : The 110 can carry a lot of fuel but of course, the more fuel the less manoeuvrability. 50% gives you roughly one hour of flight running at 105% with rads on auto, so in close dogfight servers like WC, even 25% is enough. It’s just a bit of management to do.

2- Weapons and protection

- Armor : The 110 is a real tough bird, especially compared to the 38. It can take a lot of punishment and still go back to base (personnal experience is going in that direction). 20 mm of the Tempest is the biggest threat, otherwise it can take a dozen of not converged 20 mm guns and loads of .50 cal. Good point for the bird, the control cables are the best protected in the game. You’ll nearly never get them cut due to enemy fire, which allow you to bring back heavily damaged planes. Weak spot of the 110 compared to the 38 : engine fire. When a 38 engine catches fire, the 38 can fly forever. When a 110 engine catches fire, you have to try to extinguish it the fastest possible, or the fuel tank will leak, then burn and finally explode (usually short after the fuel reaches the empty level).

- Armament: the 110’s strong point compared to the 38. Take always the twin 30mm guns, forget about the 2x20mm gunpod. If you can’t hit with 4 guns, 6 wont help, and the gunpod decreases the top speed and manoeuvrability of the 110 in a way you can’t allow in a competitive server.

- Rear gunner : another edge over the P38. Don’t dream, if an enemy is in your six, he’ll outmanoeuvre you in 80% of the cases. The rear gunner is then a precious ally even if you usually have to do the gunning yourself because it aims so bad even in straight lines. Aim at engine of liquid cooled fighters so they start burning or at the cockpit of air cooled engine fighters and pray for a PK. Rear gunner is also very good to improve your SA, not every fighter has the luxury to have 2 pair of eyes.

Ok, now I will try to answer more completely about your other questions.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

I imagine that P-38 flying tactics can be applied to the Bf 110 to some extent so feel free to share that if you know anything about how to fly the P-38. The planes are not that dissimilar. The 110 is a bit less agile while having a rear pair of eyes and a rear firing gun position. Climbs worse too and all that. But still. [/B]

110 is not a lonewolf’s plane. While in the 38 you always have a good luck to escape after a missed BnZ, 110 has not this chance. It bleeds E like mad as soon as you touch the stick, it has drag caused when you compensate for the couple created by the not contrarotative engines, etc… You are basically slow. The 110 is very powerfull flown with 1 wingman at least (another 110 is good too). Best I’ve seen was 5 110 vs 2 Spits, 2 51 and 1 Tempest meeting at 5000m. The 110s got all the enemy fighters vs 1 damaged and 1 lost (crew bailed). This was done on Warclouds a few years ago already. This was achieved because of :
- good team work
- good SA
- excellent firepower
- Teamspeak

The tactic is vital ! If you can pair with other types of wingmen, this is good too.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

To cover situations I commonly experience. What to do when...

1. Having lots of altitude above enemy fighter. How to bounce? Both if already detected and if not detected. [/B]

- When you have a lot of altitude : bounce with wingman, because 110 at max speed can’t correct its path very easily. If one miss the other wont. To bounce is easy when you know how fast and how your rounds will travel. Deflection shooting is easy because of very good forward visibility (best of the german fighters actually), but the easiest remains from 6 o clock (no corrections to do). If you are not detected it will be easy. If you are detected do it quickly because enemy fighters tend to close the gap in altitude very quickly.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

2. Coming near enemy fighter at comparable altitudes. Both with altitude and near the deck. And both when spotted and when not yet detected (the fighter highly likely to engage in dogfight due to superior maneuverability). [/B]

Head on if possible. Superior firepower, long range 20mm canons, perfect convergence, weaker enemy armament and good armor protection gives you the maximal chances to survive. If the enemy breaks, try deflection shooting. Don’t hesitate to spend your ammo, you have a lot of it. If you miss, don’t engage 1v1, you’ll lose. Call for help and run in the direction of your friends.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

3. When about to be bounced by fighter. At altitude and when near the deck (especially if it keeps up the energy tactics). [/B]

Try head on if possible then/or run and call for help. Break hard, make it hard for the opponent to touch you, Split S, etc. Then : Team tactic, as usual.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

4. When finding a fighter on one's six at comparable energy states, both at altitude and on the deck (under no circumstances do I want to hear anything about switching to gunner position and using the mouse). [/B]

If he’s far enough, 180 degree turn and go for head on. It’s your only chance. If he’s too close, try to make him overshoot or switch to rear gunner position and fire. Call for help and pray that Messerschmitt’s armor plates will hold long enough.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

5. Bomber without escort, catching up with it.
[/B]

Given the fact that .50 cals can fire at miles, don’t engage from 6. Be patient, catch with it then start making side passes, boucings or even head-on passes at it. Mk108s will do the rest.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

6. General air combat maneuvers that work and don't work in the Bf 110's. Yo-yo's are obviously one that work, and possibly long range shooting going head on since having much more system redudancy, heavier weapons and no convergence problems. Snap rolls? Barrel rolls? Slips with tons of flaps forcing a quick overshoot (like Stukas during BoB)? Hammerhead types?
[/B]

All this might work under certain circumstances. Experience only will help you. But don’t get excited, this will only give you time to escape. You have to defeat your opponent the fastest possible. If you miss your chances and start maneuvering, then the probability that your opponent will outmanoeuvre you are high.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

7. Opinions on the regular loadout version (2xMG FF/M or 151s with 4xMg17). Are the Mg-17's useful at all? They have lots of ammo and they are always converged. [/B]

Forget the MG17s. Always take 108s. It’s good for everything.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

8. BordKanone 3.7 (Can shoot down bombers at 2km almost though aiming is difficult if much more than 1km. I brought this into combat before and shot at tempests busy chasing someone or running away, and they rarely seemed to notice the single light grey streaks coming past them. I guess they all expect the blue tracers of the 151 cannons. It especially seems like a fun proposal to try to gun down people running away on the deck, since it shoots super accurately and far with little drop, and a single hit is all it takes). [/B]

Well, the Bk deteriorates the flying characteristics of the 110 in a dramatic way. You better forget this weapon, 108s will do better, you have a higher rate of fire and 1 hit will usually get a fighter down (except the 47 who can absord between a dozen to 35 108s before going down, from personnal experience).

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

9. 2xMk.108 nose cannons instead of 4xMg17's. I think my two kills (one was a Thunderbolt near the deck and I was follpowing on it's six through some wild maneuvers. The other I think was a spitfire that turned in front of me) were done with the Mk.108's. How badly do they affect maneuvering? They don't weigh that much. They have some drop but they actually have higher velocity, and overtake, the 151's after a few hundred meters because the shells are so heavy they don't slow down as much from the air resistance). [/B]

They wont affect the general handling characteristics badly. It’s the best loadout in A to A and A to G with the 110.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

10. MG 151 gunpods. [/B]

Useful at the beginning for the extra confidence it gives you (more firepower), but useless in the long run. You can do the same job with 2x20 and 2x30 mm and more efficiently because the plane will handle better.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

11. Offline I can do snap rolls often in the 110, but online it almost never works. Have ping of 140-180. Any knowledge on this issue? I am fairly skilled with snap rolling in aircraft and it is amazingly useful against the more sluggish spit/tempest type planes.

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You are my only hope.

The more sluggish is you in any offline server you will be. Snap roll are good ideas, but the best is still to split S. Full rudder, full ailerons but not full elevator or stall. It’s also easier to start rolling in the direction where the torque pushes you.

My 2 cents, just find protection. If you want to pair with me, I fly mostly on the Warclouds server at europeean evening times.

S.

Oktoberfest

[MikkOwl]

Oktoberfest, I have not read everything yet (obviously) but I want to give you a big thank you already, and telling you that this is my Dicta Boelcke

I posted the same topic on the UBI forums (where a heated discussion is going on, interesting) and someone early on said this: "You might want to ask a guy named Oktoberfest about flying the 110 at the WarClouds forums; afaik he has no trouble dealing with P51s, Tempests or late Spits. ". I said I flew only on war clouds and that I had an account there, and would try to ask you. And look here, already

For anyone wishing to see how that discussion is going, have a look: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...3/m/9291013338

Will link to Oktoberfest's marvelous feedback from over there in a second.

EDIT: Added in some data I was collecting for better understanding of the difference in Mk 108 package vs Mg 17 package:

Some data collected on the different gun packages. The 151/20 listed are the default lower-nose installation, and not the gun-pod. Included for comparison.

MG 151/20 x 2
650 rounds total
24 rounds per second
Total weight (not including attachment assembly/feed stuff/links) = 204.4kg of which 119kg is ammunition (and how much ligher one will be when no more ammo).
Combined fire power (damage it can inflict per second): 384
For how long: 27 seconds
Total carried fire power: 10 368

Mg17 x 4
4027 rounds total
80 rounds per second
Total weight: 141.5kg, of which 100.7kg ammunition.
Combined fire power: 80
For how long: 50.3 seconds
Total carried fire power: 4027

Mk 108 x 2
270 rounds total
21 rounds per second
Total weight: 245.6kg, of which 129.6 is ammunition.
Total fire power: 1160
For how long: 12.9 seconds
Total carried fire power: 14 964

Mk 108 instead of Mg 17 option adds 104.1 extra kilo, 73.6% heavier (about the same weight as all the ammo for the Mg 17's), but when the ammo is out (and it happens fairly fast) it weighs 116kg, 25kg less than the fully loaded Mg 17 load out, or probably about the same with the same amount of shooting.

[Blackdog_kt]

And here i was about to tell you "maybe Oktoberfest will see this and chime in, he'll be all or most of the advice you'll ever need"

I don't regularly fly online, but when i do i prefer full switch servers and in these cases you come across some very knowledgeable folk. I still remember you dogfighting spitfires in a 110 at 8km and winning Oktoberfest, despite the inferior aircraft and the "grenade laucher" ballistics of the Mk108 shells

In fact, if there was one piece of advice i could give you from flying the 190 that could be also applicable to the 110, is that you shouldn't scoff at the Mg151s. Set your convergence to 700m and try out some long range shots, once you get familiar with it and the amount of leading the target required, you'll be able to score hits at ranges almost nobody expects you to. Couple this with the fact that a small control/course deviation of your aircraft will translate to a bigger course deviation for your bullets and it's obvious that if you can shoot from longer ranges you don't need to maneuver that hard.

This is a serious advantage when you have a slower plane but also have more guns and close to half a minute of ammunition. Especially so if you consider Oktoberfest's advice that you have to get the kill as early as possible and even use head-on attacks to prevent the engagement from dragging on.

Setting a long convergence on the M151s you could easily score crippling damage way before the other guy is in range. Then, if he's still coming at you you can let loose with the 108s. Or he might dive out of the fight and give you a chance to follow, or break to the side in which case you can kick some rudder and start spraying in front of him, etc.

The important thing is not so much how it plays out, but the fact that (with the notable exception of the P47) most or all of the high-altitude allied fighters can be put out of action on a head on attack by a single 20mm hit, due to their liquid cooled engines. If you can shoot further out with the 20s, it means you either got the kill outright or that even in the worst case scenario the other guy has suffered some kind of damage and is on the defensive. It's like two knights jousting, the guy with the longer spear will win 9 times out of 10.

Mind you, i'm not saying the 108s are not good, all i'm saying is that if you play around with the convergence settings you could have a long range option and a short range option.
Essentially, i use the Mg151s as "assault rifles" and the Mk108s as "close range shotguns" against the big guys

[MikkOwl]

On the Fw 190, the closest pair are in the wing roots, maybe 3 meters apart, while the outer pair are even much further. On the Bf 110, maybe 40-70cm between all of them. I set the convergence to maximum, 1000 meters. The inaccuracy in the shells themselves are bigger than the distance between the barrel, and having convergence makes them cross each other's path outwards, the same disadvantage that wing cannons get (but less extreme). I am sure that in reality they used no convergence at all, since it was so close, and it was about cannon shells anyway.

The longer the range, the more effective the larger caliber shells are. The problem is of course, hitting anything. The 108 shells have low initial muzzle velocity, but their massive weight makes them overtake the 151/20's (which slow down faster from air resistance) after a few hundred meters, albeit with more projectile drop.

I love the nose mounted weaponry, and I love even more not having a propeller to have to sync-shoot through!

Firing both 151 and 108's at the same time seems to give no problem with stability of the plane, and their different paths (elevation wise) and large ammo supply increases the chance of a (brutal) hit. The technique I am working on in general to hit a plane of imprecise range and speed, when in 6 o-clock true chase behind him (he running away) is to walk the fire upwards. A 20 or a 30 is bound to come down on his plane if he's flying straight. They certainly have the speed advantage in later war scenarios, but having this firepower makes it possible to have a big shell catch up with them real fast before they get out of range

Absolutely though, the 151's are potent weapons. But the 30's are even much more potent, and they get to the target as fast as the 151's if there's a few hundred meters involved. I'm going to try to learn how to shoot both of them at any ranges.

[Oktoberfest]

Hello MikkOwl,

the good thing with mixing 20mm with 30mm rounds when you fire is that the paths of the shells are different, which means that you can spray on a wider area. It depends of course of the form and of the distance of the engagement, but I often fire with all cannons together.

I've made a track for you so you can see roughly how I fly. You'll see that TEAMWORK is essential ! And I was always on comms with Reich.

[MikkOwl]

Thank you very much. Downloaded already. Will watch later today. Printed your big nice reply with all those answers too, and will keep it around at all times when flying the 110 for quick access.

Currently busy working on that Multi-Throttle program (version 4.0, I really want to get it together and released already). Makes flying the 110 all the more fun with the split throttles and, in version 4.0, individual prop pitch too. Intend to learn how to fly the G2 with manual prop pitch and follow more realistic procedures and settings. It really sets the blade angle too, not the desired RPM of each engine so overrev happens easily if diving and not adjusting. As far as I know the C-2 and C-4 models did not have automatic pitch, and that's what we should be getting for Storm of War. Might as well have the habit already.

[Blackdog_kt]

I agree on everything you say guys. The problem for me is not the range or speed of the 108s but the drop, especially if high pitch values and G loads become a factor.

I can hit targets that are slower than me just fine, especially if they are something big (like a bomber that i happen to approach from the sides, heck you can knock the rudders off of B17s even if you happen to shoot higher and miss the fuselage). However, in that case it's not only that the enemy target is moving in a predictable way, it's also that my airframe is on a more or less stable run.
I usually make a curved approach, turning into them from their 2/10 o'clock, so as i get closer i shoot and exit to their 5/7 o'clock. The thing is, before firing i quickly roll level with the plane defined by the target's wings. In all of this, at the moment of firing i have a stable airframe flying almost straight and level and pulling almost no Gs, so i can score good hits. It might be just a split second, but it definitely is there.

However if i take a fighter/heavy fighter with 108s against another fighter, i don't only have to track a wildly maneuvering target with a limited ammo supply, but my airframe is also unstable as a result of following him.

That doesn't mean the 108 is crap, it means that i'm crap with the 108s against small targets
It's why i always fly 190s even when i want to go high, where a 109K4 would probably make more sense.

[MikkOwl]

First to all, you have to be totally aware that the 110 is not the P-38. Nothing is similar to it especially with how the 110 is modeled to the P38 in this game.

The comparison and differences you pionted out were very informative and educational. I was aware of there being major differences, but I was thinking of the P-38 as in used against Zeros, not quite the War Clouds type situation. A maybe not entirely different situation to how the Bf 110 C models were like during the Battle of Britain (Mainly slower Hurricanes everywhere that turn much better but much slower and worse armament). I thought, and still think, that cross tactics could be useful (not least in the terms of twin engines and if there's any maneuvers possible with them apart from getting out of spins and to help out the rudder at very slow speed vertical maneuvering).

- Manoeuvrability : Decent in turns actually. If you know how to handle it you can follow P-47s and P-51s easily in turns. You can follow a 38 and even slightly a Tempest. Forget about the Spit, of course

I finally found out the difference in instantaneous and sustained turn rate. This is important as the 110 seems to have pretty good instantaneous turn.

"Instantaneous turn rate describes maximum g turns which cause a loss in energy, either in the form of speed or altitude. This loss may be compensated for, to a degree, by increasing thrust, known as "excess specific power." This usually occurs during hard turns or even harder breaks. Only by turning the aircraft at its best "sustained turn rate" can the aircraft maintain its specific energy."

In general, it seems that it is possible to very quickly change the attitude (pitch) of the plane at any time (changing foremost angle of attack), which seems very useful for bringing guns on someone. But also if the 110 starts turning pretty fast, this should be exploited too. The one thing that it really can't do well, like you have pointed to, is sustained maneuvering. It will just slooooow down when pushed hard. Emphasising the 'burn' in "Turn n' Burn". The Fw 190 does good instantaneous turns (and of course amazing rolling) and in that thing, doing several shorter hard maneuvers (or jinks we can say) is useful for throwing off someone's pursuit and aim. Limited in the 110, but at least it's something. Also, nosing down hard, with or without some turning involved, must surely be something since it does perform it initially very quickly, while slowing down in the process (and takes a while to red out).

Snap roll are good ideas, but the best is still to split S. Full rudder, full ailerons but not full elevator or stall. It’s also easier to start rolling in the direction where the torque pushes you.

Not full elevator in what part of the Split S? When already inverted?

What is the reasoning for Split-S in particular? That it loses speed fast and has decent turn radius (which is fine for Split-S where you don't want to hit the ground)? If so, maybe the opponent follows it up with a Shit-S (Split-S gone wrong, flight into ground)... It rolls on the slow side, but not that bad I think, with rudder and other things thrown in, as long as there's speed. To add to it - isn't the ideal maneuver to add to the Split-S specifically a snap-roll? Just quickly flip 180 and pull back hard. Faster than trying to roll conventionally.

Armor : The 110 is a real tough bird, especially compared to the 38. It can take a lot of punishment and still go back to base (personnal experience is going in that direction). 20 mm of the Tempest is the biggest threat, otherwise it can take a dozen of not converged 20 mm guns and loads of .50 cal. Good point for the bird, the control cables are the best protected in the game. You’ll nearly never get them cut due to enemy fire, which allow you to bring back heavily damaged planes. Weak spot of the 110 compared to the 38 : engine fire. When a 38 engine catches fire, the 38 can fly forever. When a 110 engine catches fire, you have to try to extinguish it the fastest possible, or the fuel tank will leak, then burn and finally explode (usually short after the fuel reaches the empty level)

I read that the 110 lacked some armor from the front due to the nose having no engine to absorb bullets. Of course this means messing up the instrument panel and pilot rather than getting the engine damaged, if such hits could occur. But this was comments from some IL-2 forum and not about the real 110 as far as I know, thus it could be inaccurate. Maybe it had decent armor in the nose? Not to mention the surface is angled for deflection of projectiles as well as there being plenty of weapon systems with their mounting points to absorb damage.

Also, the question of survivability: the 110 seems a lot larger than the average fighter (not to mention small ones). It may absorb more damage, but I wonder if there's much difference as it will get hit more due to size.

My own experience does suggest it can get shot up a lot. I have a tendency to lose my Revi Gunsight more than other planes if anything. The glass-house cockpit is a bit bothersome, but probably no different from any other fighter. The 110 is a hell of a lot tougher than the P-38 for sure. 38 always gets catastrophic failiure instantly, very different. Being so large makes it hit more too.

Rear gunner : another edge over the P38. Don’t dream, if an enemy is in your six, he’ll outmanoeuvre you in 80% of the cases. The rear gunner is then a precious ally even if you usually have to do the gunning yourself because it aims so bad even in straight lines. Aim at engine of liquid cooled fighters so they start burning or at the cockpit of air cooled engine fighters and pray for a PK. Rear gunner is also very good to improve your SA, not every fighter has the luxury to have 2 pair of eyes.

I cannot use the mouse and the stick at the same time, so I don't have to worry about having to use the gunner to shoot with. The gunner does aim very good if the aim is still and the target isn't moving in a way that requires lead. But that's only something one gets when they sneak up on you flying straight or are behind you at the top of a zoom (I saw that once in my rear view mirror so to speak). Maybe if crippled and slow, and they fly behind slow as well. Here's hoping SoW makes the BordFunker realistic in function even in multiplayer and in aim. Telling where the enemy is.

Best I’ve seen was 5 110 vs 2 Spits, 2 51 and 1 Tempest meeting at 5000m. The 110s got all the enemy fighters vs 1 damaged and 1 lost (crew bailed). This was done on Warclouds a few years ago already.

Did the enemy say anything to comment on such a glorious outcome? I'm sure they didn't expect it (unless it was during the 110 mobster era ). I agree, team work and communication is much more important than the planetype. Firepower always mixes well with team work especially while maneuverability and speed I think is outmost important for lone wolfing.

Deflection shooting is easy because of very good forward visibility (best of the german fighters actually), but the easiest remains from 6 o clock (no corrections to do).

This is a theme with the 110 in general - kill them fast with superior firepower, for there is rarely a second chance. All the tactics seem to be about this. If at first you don't succeed, run... I think one thing I must absolutely do is become a skilled shot with the various cannons, for without that the rest is pretty pointless. The good undistorted forward vision with (unique for a german plane) centered gunsight is part of a strength that must be taken advantage of fully.

108s will do better, you have a higher rate of fire and 1 hit will usually get a fighter down (except the 47 who can absord between a dozen to 35 108s before going down, from personnal experience).

I can confirm that observation. It was the most durable fighter during the war, so it's not the wrong plane for it. But was it that extremely durable?