lf some info about tanks

[Zeke Wolff]

Don´t forget that the King Tiger with the Porsche turret is actually an left over from Faces of War, and thus, has a faulty hit volume in the body section. Faces of War had a much simplified penetration system, where even a 37mm at-gun sooner or later could penetrate even the thickest frontal armor at any range.

~Zeke.

[Sarge]

lol the editor works with the unpatched version of the game and also has the wrong Penetration!

[Panzergranate]

Originally Posted by Zeke Wolff

Don´t forget that the King Tiger with the Porsche turret is actually an left over from Faces of War, and thus, has a faulty hit volume in the body section. Faces of War had a much simplified penetration system, where even a 37mm at-gun sooner or later could penetrate even the thickest frontal armor at any range.

~Zeke.

Not in real life though!!

The real Tiger I armour layout:

Upper Front = 100mm.
Lower Front = 100mm. @ 30 Degrees.
Upper Hull Side = 80mm.
Lower Hull Side = 60mm.
Upper and Lower Hull Rear = 80mm.
Deck & Floor = 26mm.
88mm. L56 maximum penetration = 165mm. @ 100m. @ 0 Degrees with Pzgr.39 APCBC shot.

The real Panther G armour layout:
Upper Hull Front = 80mm. @ 60 Degrees.
Lower Hull Front = 60mm. @ 60 Degrees.
Upper Hull Sides = 45mm. @ 30 Degrees.
Lower HUll Sides - 45mm.
Upper & Lower Hull Rear = 45mm. @ 60 Degrees.
Deck & Floor = 15mm.
75mm. L70 maximum penetration = 203mm. @ 100m. @ 0 Degrees with Pzgr.39 APCBC shot.

Maximum penetrations for the 37mm. L45 PaK 35 and KwK 36:

65mm. @ 100m. @ 0 Degrees with Pzgr.39 APCBC shot.
79mm. @ 100m. @ 0 Degrees with Pzgr 40 APCR shot.

In gunnery ballistics, if a gun with maximum penetration of 100mm. @ range X @ 0 Degrees hits a target with 50mm. of armour protection @ range X @ 0 Degrees, it has a 50% chance of pentration under the laws of physics.

If the target has 25mm. of armour it has a 75% chance.

If a target has armour inclined to 30 Degrees, this decreases the power of the incoming shot by 18%.

If the target has armour inclined to 60 Degrees, this decreases the power of the incoming shot by 34%.

Any shot hit at 72 Degrees or more will skid off. 72 Degrees, as anyone who skips stones on a pond, is recognised in physics as the "Skate Angle" where zero amount of impact force os transmitted to a surface.

A quick bash on a calculator will show that the German 37mm. PaK had no chnace of penetrating the front of a T34/76 A, B or C (60mm. @ 60 Degrees) even at point blank range with the Pzgr.39 APCBC shot, whilst the Pzgr.40 APCR shot would have less than a 10% chance at even point blank range.

The odds of penetrating the turret front are also equally grim (65mm.) as it would take a 1 in a 100 lucky shot to achieve with APCBC and not much better with APCR.

No wonder why the T34 rendered most of the German standard AT guns obstelete pretty much immediately.

The difference between a gun's maximum penetration and a target's armour defence is termed "the overkill factor". The 88mm. L71 and 88mm. L98 PaK / FlaK guns are notorious for their massive overkill factors versus their victims.

The British Army, back in the 1920's, when looking for a dedicated tank gun stipulated that it should have a 70% chance or better of penetrating an AFV with 8mm. of armour @ 500 yards with a first round hit. The Vickers 47mm. L31 3 Pounder tank gun could manage 27mm. @ 500 yards with APHE shell.

This benchmark has been updated to take into account thicker armour of typical targets, but still stands today for procurement.

Tank armour and steel are two completely different things. Steel contains a majority amount of Iron and is classed as an Iron Based Alloy.

Tank Armour contains 60 - 70% Nickel, 15 - 20% Copper, 10 - 15% Iron and varying quantities of Molybednium, Chromium and other special metals.

Therefore Tank Armour is classed as a Nickel Based Alloy.

Steel has a melting point of 1,300 Celsuis and Armour has a melting point of 3,800 Celsuis.

During WW2 the US made training versions of the M4 Sherman and M7 Priest SPG completely in steel as they didn't need to be armoured as they'd never see combat.

When computer games and wargame adopt true ballistics anti-armour mathematics, which has been around since the 1800's, tank battles will be more authentic.

[KnightFandragon]

Awesome post...nice to know all those things haha. So the T34 has 60mm of armor then eh? not the 47 that it has in game....thats kinda nice to know But yeah it would be pretty sweet to have a game that is based on RL penetration factors and what not. Then the Tiger would be truly a Tiger lolz

[KnightFandragon]

Soo....now that we know the RL penetration numbers and what not what does MoW do to calculate penetration/Damage and what not? Sure u have like a T34's 47 Hull Armor and hit it w/ a Pzr IV gun at 70m w/ a Penetration of like 60 or w/e it is. Then u target get like a Yellow Circle...but what other things does it factor in to Determine a bounce or Hull Destroyed? eh

[Sarge]

All tanks are good and have their disadvantages, and for only newcomers say there is an ultimate Tank in the game. And even the tiger is in the hand of a prof a good Tank but thats hard to play with tiger^^

[KnightFandragon]

@Lawl Lawl

Nope, not a fan of any of the Assault Gun vehicles, Stug, JagdTiger, Nash...any of them. As for the 88mm Gun, in RL the 75 does have higher penetration then the Tiger's 88. The King Tiger and Nashorn actually have a better, longer KwK43 or something..its quite a bit better.

As for the Tiger in this game...its pretty bad. Its gun doesnt have Penetration much higher then a M4A1 Sherman 75mm gun.....at 50 the Tiger is like 92. At 50 the Sherman's is like 74 or so....Meanwhile the 76mm on the Brit tank at 50 is like 135 or something. Also, the Tiger, i have yet to hit one and have it NOT blow up.....IM afraid of that thing.....if its mine....

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by Sarge

All tanks are good and have their disadvantages, and for only newcomers say there is an ultimate Tank in the game. And even the tiger is in the hand of a prof a good Tank but thats hard to play with tiger^^

THing is that most tanks in MoW lack powerfull guns. See this short video of a T34 shooting a Panther in the flank. Sorry for the low resolution. It might be a birt hard to recognize. But the first shoot hits the flank of the Panther doing no damage at all just to see it rotate and shoot the T34 in flames.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6iqMJ0v2rI

The tanks particularly the ones using medium / large guns like 85, 88, 122 and 152mm should be a lot more powerfull when they hit the side of tanks. Particularly such weak armored tanks like the panther. While it had good front armor even the 76mm of the T34 could already penetrate its side from I think 1000m. (mabye less I dont know it for sure, but at least the 85mm definetly can). Sadly I experience such situations as well with shooting the IS2, IS1 and KV85 flank with the Tiger I for example. Even the slightest angle can mean here issues which doesnt feel that believable to me even when thinking about it that the range of all guns is downsized for gameplay reasons the 88mm has a strong punch and should even on max distance (if you hit) penetrate always and do damage except of course for really bad angles. The only tank where I see taking damage to the side from the Tiger I sufficiently is the T34 in all its variants.