Released: Multi-Throttle Support for IL-2

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

Hopefully April, very likely yes, and maybe you should ask Viikate about the last part. Holding down the brakes and using rudder pedals creates a differential-braking effect already, as far as I'm aware.
You really should put a DT pic in your signature, Viikate.

All the better if all these things could be put in the game executables themselves instead of having to use this. But until then, we have all the features here, now.

Indeed about the differential braking method in IL-2. But that won't work with toe brakes (that flip forward). One can only assign brakes to a single axis in IL-2 also, further making it impossible. I managed to solve it by measuring which toe brake was applying the most force, then (for each fraction of a second) using the one with most force to determine the amount of 'brake pedal' being applied. At the same time, another measurement measures how far each of the toe brakes are pushed, which determines the angle the rudder will be set at (as the rudder controls if the other wheel side should have less than the brake force being applied).

It took some tuning to make it work properly to say the least. At one point I made it do 100% rudder left or right, if only one toe brake was being pressed - to avoid the problem where if only a little braking was being appplied, the rudder was also only turned a little, making the other wheel brake almost as much (making the aircraft come to a halt instead of turning at very low speeds, near standstill). This gave 100% wheel braking only on that side, solving the problem. But it also gave very sudden violent changes in direction if the plane also had some speed (even just traveling down the taxiway) due to the maximum rudder deflection.

The solution was to make the rudder not move to full deflection instantly, but it moves to full much quicker than having to press a toe brake all the way to 100%. Maybe at 30% toe brake the rudder is at maximum deflection. This solved all the problems, except that the rudder turns if braking one wheel more than the other.

In this manner, the plane is smooth and predictable without sudden unexpected turns, and you can steer it without braking both wheels even at slow speeds (standing still and rotating the plane in a single engined fighter works easily).

Also, to brake fully, you must brake both wheels by pressing both toe brakes, like during landing or when lining up a P-38 for take-off.

It works pretty much exactly like real wheel brakes would.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

It works pretty much exactly like real wheel brakes would, except that there is auto rudder deflection at the same time (not necessarily a bad thing).

Heh, I got around that little immersion issue for quite a while accidentally by mostly flying types with hand-operated brakes.

[Azimech]

From the Readme:

"The tools in the JOYSTICK_IDENTIFIER folder let you scan each of the first four joystick ID slots (usually a joystick takes up slot 1, a throttle slot 2 and so on, but it can deviate)."

Does this mean more than 4 controllers are not supported? Or just not identified? Soon I will have 5 with more to come.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Azimech

Does this mean more than 4 controllers are not supported? Or just not identified? Soon I will have 5 with more to come.

I haven't tried it myself, but from what I hear, Il-2 supports a maximum of 4...just out of curiosity, what are all these controllers you are collecting?

[MikkOwl]

You can use as many as you want, all are supported. Only IL-2 doesn't support more than 4 in it's own controller setups.

If you need it, I can send you identifiers for ID 5, 6, 7 etc. But you can probably manage most assignments by just typing in the number 5 in the "5joyx" "5joyy" "5joyz" in the config files for ID 5, and trying X Y Z, as those are the most common axis letters for devices. Should find most pretty quickly in this way. The joystick ID programs are just to help people identify their stuff without trial and error. With trial and error you can find anything.

Neat way of getting around IL2's limitations eh?

In fact, one can manipulate most functions, trims etc using device link. I have not put in that support though but I could if it would be useful to people. Most people do not have more than 4 devices (even though I do, I used to have my G940 main steering wheel as elevator trim, mounted properly on my left side like in Bf 109. But it was a bit bulky and my chair kept bumping into it, and not enough USB ports etc. I now use the back R2 wheel on the throttle of the G940 as trim instead, which is okay. A but unrealistically fast perhaps).

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

I now use the back R2 wheel on the throttle of the G940 as trim instead, which is okay. A but unrealistically fast perhaps).

Sounds like you need a small plastic box, a decent 5-turn potentiometer and some manner of simple USB controller.

[Azimech]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I haven't tried it myself, but from what I hear, Il-2 supports a maximum of 4...just out of curiosity, what are all these controllers you are collecting?

I have a Sidewinder FF2 for aileron and elevator,
Saitek throttle 1 for power, proppitch & flaps,
Saitek throttle 2 for aileron trim, rudder trim and brakes,
MS ForceFeedback Wheel for elevator trim (in the future it will be placed besides me, like the big wheels in real A/C) with centering power off.

And I'm building my own pedals using a timing belt and two camshaft sprockets & some old wood, with a Saitek steering wheel (USB) as a base, and which will have toe brakes and include a pedestal for placing the Sidewinder and a locking mechanism for my office chair using a big lever.
I wanted better resolution and most wheels use optics.

My previous pedals used the classic pivoting style, used a cable over a pulley which turned a potmeter from a gameport-joystick. Was nice and built them from scratch in a few hours with the stuff I had lying around (drawing, measuring? nah )

Although I like the idea of buying a brand new HOTAS, building stuff for a few euro's is even more fun.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Azimech

Although I like the idea of buying a brand new HOTAS, building stuff for a few euro's is even more fun.

Why don't you build a trim box, then? Get one of these, 3 multi-turn pots (I've heard 5 turn pots are good, apparently the 109 had about 5 turns on its trim wheel, for example), or even just some one-turn pots and some gears, and a little plastic project box. All you have to do then is drill some holes in the box, mount the pots on the sides, mount the BU0836 inside somewhere, then connect everything up - just a matter of connecting 3 wires for each potentiometer to the Bodnar board. You can even avoid that hassle by buying some of the three-pin connectors on the Bodnar site. Then you've just got to find some decent wheels to attach to the potentiometer shafts.
Doing that, you replace the second throttle and the elevator trim steering wheel with one controller straight away and into the bargain using rudder and aileron trim is now a lot more intuitive since you can place them on the box however you like (likely on the right for elevator trim, back for aileron trim and top for rudder trim). You also have spare space on the top for buttons and switches at a later date. There's a tutorial for connecting those up here.
You could even replace the other Saitek throttle as well if you wanted (the Bodnar board supports up to 8 axes, 32 buttons and a hat switch), but that would probably be slightly more difficult since building throttles from scratch is a bit harder than just drilling holes in a box and screwing potentiometers into the holes (the limit of my ability, at least )
The only thing you're missing that way is brakes, but once you complete your pedals you're all sorted. Just an idea. I've had this kind of stuff wandering through my head for the last few weeks since I noticed how easy it is to build simple controllers for yourself.

[335th_GRSwaty]

Check this,less than 30€,article is in Greek but you get the point:

http://www.hotas.gr/content/view/63/53/lang,en

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRSwaty

Check this,less than 30€

Wow, that's really awesome, Swaty. I like your website!