Friday 2010-01-22 Screenshots AND Discussion Thread

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Tbag

And the mass of the aircraft has a lot to do with the aircrafts movements. The heavier an aircraft, the more energy needed to accelerate it. And I'm perfectly sure that the SoW team is more than aware of all this

Yes, but because the size mass of the aircraft is large and the mass of the pilots head is small, even slight movements of the the aircraft will have a large effect on the pilots head.

You are 100% right, Oleg and the development team have spent more time working on this than us all combined and they know the direction they want to take!

Originally Posted by Airmalik

Hand held/head mounted cameras always exaggerate the amount of shaking. I've tried simple mounts on the wing strut and landing gear and it's always a struggle to get steady footage. Hand held cameras aren't much better unless the cameraman is very good at damping the little bumps felt while flying but not necessary 'seen'. The lens in this video isn't very wide angle which helps. Just yesterday I was out flying (ultralight) with a friend who was shooting video from the right seat and while editing that video I had to junk pretty much every clip where he tried to zoom even a little. Even at the widest angle the video was shaky at times. The amount of shake in the video was NOTHING like I experienced while flying. So I don't think that camera footage can be used to determine the amount of shake we should see in flight sims.

I must say I'm a bit jelous and would love to see some of your footage. Would the exaggeration your talking about be due to the focal length setting of your video's lens? If you zoom in any movements shakes etcf would become more pronounced, just as if you used a fish eye lens you find them reduced. (Need a photography expert here to help!)

As stated before (and after) by a few people our brains tend to make us ignore the bad effect, my point is that when we try to concentrate on the gun sights this would be one of the times when it would be noticable. You would need to keep your head in a relatively fixed position (within the viewing angle of the refector sight) and thats when you'ld notice the movement.

My link to the video was not an ideal choice, but it did show the effect I was talking about.

What would they say if you did an experiment and put a post and ring sight on your ultra-light and ..... Hmmm! On second thoughts it might raise a few eye-brows :0

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

The human head, spine and soft parts makes for a pretty good damper of vibrations and acceleration. There's a certain delay involved, and a lot of damping. I've even heard from someone with some credentials that there's a formula for calculating it.

100% agree with you BUT 'pritty good' does not equate to a 'SteadyCam' experience.

Pass on the details of the research tho the development team. As with the ricochet information they were looking for, I'm sure they are trying to make the sim as realistic as posible. Within the bounds of Artistic License (been itching to use it in context- sorry) and the huge number of other priorities I'm sure it could be useful to them.

Really looking forward to the next update!
Cheers to all

[Avimimus]

It's also important to realise that the eye, muscular system have some ability to compensate for vibration and the human mind has an ability to interpret movement. The subjective impression of shaking may be much less for a human being in the actual plane than for a human watching a recording made with a camera on that plane.

So, it would be nice if this were a customisable feature.

[SlipBall]

I think that any shaking in a aircraft you are keenly aware of just because you are off the ground and out of your environment. In my case being shaken always triggered fear and rapid mental assessment.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I think that any shaking in a aircraft you are keenly aware of just because you are off the ground and out of your environment. In my case being shaken always triggered fear and rapid mental assessment.

Lacking both the intellegence and imagination required to experience that emotion, I must conceed that it was often a topic discussed by my instructors (many of whom went on to find ground based employment) and passengers (many of whom went on to get their pilots licences - so that they would NEVER have to fly with me again!!!) at the end of each flight. I just put it down as the 'Exhilaration of Flight'!

Just joking of course Then again two of my brothers and at least one of my friends did go on to get their pilots licences after flying with me just once ..... Hmmm!

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Lacking both the intellegence and imagination required to experience that emotion, I must conceed that it was often a topic discussed by my instructors (many of whom went on to find ground based employment) and passengers (many of whom went on to get their pilots licences - so that they would NEVER have to fly with me again!!!) at the end of each flight. I just put it down as the 'Exhilaration of Flight'!

Just joking of course Then again two of my brothers and at least one of my friends did go on to get their pilots licences after flying with me just once ..... Hmmm!

Ha ha, you must be fun up there...fear was too strong of a word to use, maybe "concerned" would fit better in my case. After all its a long way down, fast

[OSSI]

A slow flying plane shake more than high speed flying plane. Also the plane typ is a factor (heavy or light) e.t.c.

Video was great!!

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

As stated before (and after) by a few people our brains tend to make us ignore the bad effect, my point is that when we try to concentrate on the gun sights this would be one of the times when it would be noticable. You would need to keep your head in a relatively fixed position (within the viewing angle of the refector sight) and thats when you'ld notice the movement.

It is not that hard with reflector sight, but with iron sight it is. Rise of Flight combined with TrackIR gives good feeling how hard it is to align sights for precise shots while maneuvering and constantly looking around. However, this is true only if you don't use any "magic" button to center the camera.

Eyes (or brains) don't filter the movements in sense of image processing. Instead, they are stabilized on the point where you look. This is possible due to vestibular system, which allows us to feel rotation and linear acceleration. This system allows us to feel when we fall, are pushed, turned and etc. (it even helps us to walk in complete darkness). Also, it sends signals to eyes, so that eyes will compensate for head movement and turn towards the point we want to look at.

Magnitude of effect depends on individual, but in case of vertigo (i.e. too much spinning) stabilization of eyes might become less effective or completely off. So, after multiple barrel rolls you may temporary think that plane shakes much more than before.

[airmalik]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

I must say I'm a bit jelous and would love to see some of your footage.

Please check your PM.

I went out flying again to see exactly how turbulence looks like from a light plane - hey anything for research

It's quite smooth flying in the winter so it took a while to find turbulent air. Wasn't too bumpy but I noticed that at times there was enough shaking to make reading the instrument panel difficult but at the same time if I looked outside, it wasn't difficult to focus on any particular spot.

Looking at the spitfire video again, it seems to be similar in the respect that the view outside isn't as bumpy as the interior. Of course that also has to do with the proximity of the cockpit to the pilot but I think it's closer to reality than I thought previously. I guess while flying I'm mostly looking out and don't notice the shaky interior except when I'm consciously trying to read the instruments.

cheers!