Friday 2009-11-20 Screenshots Update discussion thread

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Talisman

Oleg,

With regards to the aircraft damage and cockpit pilot posts above. Please, no damage visual aids and please, please and please again, no dummy pilot in the cockpit!

I would like to see and use the cockpit without a dummy pilot getting in the way. This is a flight sim, not a cartoon game. I can't believe some of the stuff people are asking for. Good luck.

Happy landings,

Talisman

I have to agree here... I think it is kind of hokey myself....

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

However I prsonally really know what should be and should't be in a fligth sxim that to make it successfull even morte than IL-2 series. And I hope to reach that stage that to "overjump" my onw Il-2.

Of that I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever.. I also have no doubt that you will succed in that attempt..

[Mango]

I think cut scene animations and animated pilot in cockpit = waste of valuable development time with no long term value to the game.

Most of the gimmicky things people are asking for will lose their appeal very quickly. Even those asking for cut scenes will get bored of them after 2 or 3 viewings. Remember that we experience flight sims 99% from the pilot's point of view.

And tell me, when you're driving a car, who really notices their own body in their field of view? Nobody pays attention to their hands on the steering wheel.

It also effects immersion if we see badly rendered 3D humanoids (which can never be rendered as well as solid structures) intermingled with the beautiful graphical environment we'll be immersed in.

The virtual world that we fly in will be greatly enhanced by what we see from the cockpit, what we hear over the radio, and what we read in breifings; not by 3rd person views of pilot animations or cut scenes.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Originally Posted by Mango

I think cut scene animations and animated pilot in cockpit = waste of valuable development time with no long term value to the game.

Anyone here realizes that it's not that complex to animate the freakin' pilot inside the cockpit? People just say it like they needed to rebuild the engine to make the pilot inside. Nobody is asking to put this in the top of their priorities list, but it's a feature that have to be considered.

Plus, let's be democratic here. No one is pointing a gun to your head and saying you will HAVE to fly with pilot inside the cockpit. You can simply switch it on or off, depending on your preferences. There's no point in denying something people would like just because YOU dislike it. That's being a bit selfish, don't you think?

My opinion still is: immersion is not determined by major features, but by the smallest details. In the end, you're always sitting in a chair looking to a freakin' monitor. But if you're sitting in that chair, hearing the pilot's breathing, with that lonely feel after everyone suddently disappeared, hearing the symphony made by that noisy Merlin engine and the static from the radio, and yet feeling like there's a strange silence, seeing your arms and legs doing some rather nervous movements to help you checking all angles for enemies, keeping a sharp eye on the oxygen gauge, and having to dive a bit to get some air... it just makes you feel closer to being inside the cockpit, instead of the chair in front of the monitor.

[proton45]

Dear Oleg....

This is all very interesting, but I'm still curious how damage will be calculated? Is damage going to be calculated by the physics of materials clashing (and the damage of accelerates & rapid oxidation)? Or...what are your thoughts on the issue?

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell

Anyone here realizes that it's not that complex to animate the freakin' pilot inside the cockpit? People just say it like they needed to rebuild the engine to make the pilot inside. Nobody is asking to put this in the top of their priorities list, but it's a feature that have to be considered.

Plus, let's be democratic here. No one is pointing a gun to your head and saying you will HAVE to fly with pilot inside the cockpit. You can simply switch it on or off, depending on your preferences. There's no point in denying something people would like just because YOU dislike it. That's being a bit selfish, don't you think?

My opinion still is: immersion is not determined by major features, but by the smallest details. In the end, you're always sitting in a chair looking to a freakin' monitor. But if you're sitting in that chair, hearing the pilot's breathing, with that lonely feel after everyone suddently disappeared, hearing the symphony made by that noisy Merlin engine and the static from the radio, and yet feeling like there's a strange silence, seeing your arms and legs doing some rather nervous movements to help you checking all angles for enemies, keeping a sharp eye on the oxygen gauge, and having to dive a bit to get some air... it just makes you feel closer to being inside the cockpit, instead of the chair in front of the monitor.

Problem is, they need to make 1 pilot for every ac in game/new edition = S**tload of work.


Unless u wanna a stick or throttle petruding out of pilots leg for ex. because it fits in one cockpit and not the other. (as Oleg allredy stated, though i think he meant the movements of the 3D pilot, as in fine in one ac but leg outside the fuselage in another ac)


Not to mention the complexity involved if u wanna make the animation work with a clickeble cockpit (future maby?) . Will pilot move his arm when u puch down the flaps key, how will that work while df`ing animation wise, will pilot swich hand on control column if needed, or the pilots arms blocking instruments etc. etc.


Well, u get the idea of how "easy" it is to implement. (to a standard Oleg is willing to allow)



Would it be cool? Hell yah. Is it worth the work involved? Not according to Oleg.


Maby a future 3:rd party addon, who knows (if even possible)

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Originally Posted by Lucas_From_Hell

Anyone here realizes that it's not that complex to animate the freakin' pilot inside the cockpit?

It has already been answered:

Originally Posted by Luthier

"We don't have anywhere near the time needed to animate the pilot model properly. We can put his hands on throttle and stick and feet on pedals, and then in half the cockpits he'll have other levers clipping through his body, stick clipping through his knees, etc. His arms will obscure important gauges on the dashboard.

With our new 6DOF free camera system that allows you to poke your head out the window or "bend" forward and look at the seat back, there's just no way we can animate the body to follow the camera, meaning you'd be able to twist your neck and look back on your own headless contorted body.

So, the answer is no. A poltergeist cockpit is not perfect, but the alternative is even worse. "

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Originally Posted by Baron

Not to mention the complexity involved if u wanna make the animation work with a clickeble cockpit. Or the pilots arms blocking instruments. Will pilot move his arm when u puch down the flaps key, how will that work while df`ing etc. etc.

No one asked for such detail, or pilot clicking all around or whatever. As I said, stick - throttle - rudder, similar to the DCS one.

If pilots (or humans, in general) are going to be detailed as stated by Oleg himself (I'm considering it has basic animations related to arms and legs), there could be room for putting a human pilot inside the cockpit, and articulate him to fit each cockpit, just as a normal pilot do. Move the leg a bit right/left, just move the left hand a bit, right hand around the stick and... voilà, you just have your pilot fitted to another aircraft.

I might be wrong about the possibilities of humans in-game, but, from what I understood, this isn't that tricky to model as people propose.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't saw the last post. At least I guess this will be possible to be made by users after the release.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

It almost seems like a disservice to those who went through the horror of air combat to simply glaze over the gore because it's "unpleasant"

This argument is warped: making a spectacle of blood and sufferings of human beings would be monstrous, and would denote a total lack of respect for the ones who really went through such an ordeal. I can understand the quest for a faithful simulation, but heck, that's a game and I want to enjoy it as such ... so no blood spatter for me, thanks.


Regards,
Insuber

[daHeld]

Originally Posted by Necrobaron

I concur with your sentiment though I think this will be a fruitless point to argue. Regardless, I think some people have a somewhat sanitized view of what air combat was and I do not agree that by adding any sort of blood or gore equates to a horror movie. It might be surprising to hear but people bled, got shot up, and died, often very violently while flying combat missions and I wished the game would reflect that or at least have a "realism" option that featured it. It almost seems like a disservice to those who went through the horror of air combat to simply glaze over the gore because it's "unpleasant". In my experience, the sim playing demographic tends to be an older crowd so I think we're all mature enough to handle it and I highly doubt many, if any, sales would be lost if SoW did receive a ESRB Mature rating or equivalent.

The absence or presence of blood and gore is not a dealbreaker one way or the other, but that's how I feel.

That's exactely what I think is right, too!
Nicely put!