Friday 2009-11-20 Screenshots Update discussion thread

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by 13th Hsqn Protos

RoF has failed.

There is a lesson there for Oleg.

but I of course will bow to your much greater wisdom .....

Maybe ROF failed for you because you failed to realize that it was released as a WIP. I see ROF having a very bright future. Both ROF and SOW are being developed by fellow combat flight simmers, who have a love for the genre, without them the genre would be dead.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Maybe ROF failed for you because you failed to realize that it was released as a WIP. I see ROF having a very bright future..

RoF is a buggy piece of junk that was released to early as a product in beta stage, and the "gaming model" is completely flawed and deserves to be a flop. nowhere on their product box or webpage does it openly and clearly state it is an unfinished beta product which was prematurely released because they ran out of money, you personally might not mind that, but the rest of us surely do.

the RoF game world is empty and lifeless and dead, no ground life or activity, plane flight models are scripted and not real physics (note for ex planes without wings flying around as if nothing has happened to them, untill they "bug fixed" it by adding "no wings = dead plane and fall to ground" etc..), no real online play (lacks dogfight and coop servers), lacks offline play (non existent), etc..

the main RoF forums have long lists of complaints and unhappy people (even if RoF has bribed several forum owners to censor open discussion), sales have slumped after their initial con trick of selling an unfinished product got realized. and now they want to keep charging you for the patches to fix it ? sure, pull the other one and see if we can laugh some more !

and why are you here again advertising it in a BoB forum ? keep that junk crap out of this forum

[zapatista]

Oleg,

thanks for the new stuka pictures

Question 1: in the dynamic campaign, will we be able to take of from an airfield and then request from the local area "command center" an update on aircraft activity in our sector ? with information on approximate numbers of suspected enemy planes, and their heading and altitude ?

this would mean
- not just having limited information on the one specific mission we are flying, but getting an overview of all activity in that sector
- at very busy times this could have low information detail, just giving approximate numbers of formations and aircraft types
- at less busy times it could give more precise information, like enemy reconnaissance plane in sector X, or damaged enemy bombers returning home at low altitude in sector Z etc..

question 2: can we have some type of visual feedback on the damage status of our own aircraft ? in real life we get much more information on the damage to our aircraft because we feel the hits it takes and we feel the changes in how the plane behaves in the air when it is damged (for ex increased vibrations when we slow down, more sluggish to turn left then right etc..). sitting behind a monitor in our livingroom removes a lot of those clue's
- ? is it possible to have a "visual damage report" that either with an image or text gives us a damage status ? (something we can turn on/off to have a quick report and see our status). you can add some uncertainty to it to make it more realistic so it isnt 100% precise, for ex "right wing root multiple hits, possible structural weakening" etc..
note: this would be an option you can turn on/off in the setup, so people who prefer not to get this information can continue to fly uninformed

[erco]

Love the cockpits! I wanted shadows, I got shadows!
Thanks Oleg and Crew!

[mark@1C]

Originally Posted by zapatista

Oleg,

Question 1: in the dynamic campaign, will we be able to take of from an airfield and then request from the local area "command center" an update on aircraft activity in our sector ? with information on approximate numbers of suspected enemy planes, and their heading and altitude ?

I imagine it further more.
We can play different roles in the game,a Radar soilder,an Air traffic controller,and so on.Those dynamic tactical imformation will not apply by AI,but by ourselves.
(For such AI can hardly do well in their work.For example,maybe Silent-Hunter Series.To use Wolf Pack Tactic by AI Information looks like a fantasy still.)

[AdMan]

Originally Posted by zapatista

question 2: can we have some type of visual feedback on the damage status of our own aircraft ? in real life we get much more information on the damage to our aircraft because we feel the hits it takes and we feel the changes in how the plane behaves in the air when it is damged (for ex increased vibrations when we slow down, more sluggish to turn left then right etc..). sitting behind a monitor in our livingroom removes a lot of those clue's
- ? is it possible to have a "visual damage report" that either with an image or text gives us a damage status ? (something we can turn on/off to have a quick report and see our status). you can add some uncertainty to it to make it more realistic so it isnt 100% precise, for ex "right wing root multiple hits, possible structural weakening" etc..
note: this would be an option you can turn on/off in the setup, so people who prefer not to get this information can continue to fly uninformed

do you have a force feedback flightstick? Even in IL-2 with my saitek I always know when and where I have taken damage and if you're not flying cockpit-only view a quick external check will show damage to tail sections. Damage to a wing will cause the stick to pull to one side and with the saitek evoforce FF turned up past 70% it will jump right off the desktop if you don't have a handle on it.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by AdMan

do you have a force feedback flightstick? Even in IL-2 with my saitek I always know when and where I have taken damage and if you're not flying cockpit-only view a quick external check will show damage to tail sections. Damage to a wing will cause the stick to pull to one side and with the saitek evoforce FF turned up past 70% it will jump right off the desktop if you don't have a handle on it.

no i havnt used a force feedback stick in il2, but i think that aside from maybe feeling some thumps or jolts when you get hit by larger caliber shells or flack, it wouldnt solve most of the problem i mentioned

being able to only externally view your aircraft for physical damage to the exterior of the plane doesnt solve it fully either, because some important damage might not be externally visible (ex control cables damaged, torn, type of engine damage to electrical controls or coolant/fuel hoses, landing gear damaged while it is retracted, etc to name a few). additionally, external views are often used as a cheat during dogfighting or as a cheat to improve SA during flight. it is also not very realistic to be able in mid air step out of your aircraft and make a visual inspection tour to look for damage (note: if there is a time limit of how often and how long you can on external view inspect your aircrat, then this might still be usefull to also include since many of us enjoy inspecting the detailed damage model in closeup and see exactly what has happened to our aircraft after a close encounter).

whatever solution oleg finds to this, the main aim is to somehow use "visual aids" in a game to obtain or provide the same type of information the pilot would get in real life when flying an aircraft. by sitting in our livingroom behind a monitor we are missing a lot of clue's a real pilot would get. personally i am in favour of a keyboard key that would bring up a schematic of our aircraft, with a colour coded damage status. with for ex black marks where some damage was taken, with yellow marking important damage, and red marking critical damage (coolant or fuel loss for ex, structural damage that can soon lead to complete complete structural failure etc..). as initial damage leads to further deterioration, the colour coding might change over time while we are still flying, engine overheating and seizing etc). there might be other ways to do it, for ex bringing up a notepad with a "damage report" etc..

this information is already available inside the game since the damage model keeps a record of what is affected, it is a matter of finding a good simple way to represent the important parts so at a quick glance you can get an overview of your aircraft status. it is not intended as some unrealistic highly detailed engineering report, but as a usefull visual replacement to provide the player with some usefull information, a large part of which is normally more available by physically being in a moving aircraft where you can feel the resistance of aircraft controls and behaviour

those that dont like a feature like that could simply switch it off in the options and not use it

note: the same "damage report" status info could stay with the aircraft after it has landed, and while the same aircraft stays parked at an airfield over hrs or days, the damage could gradually be repaired and be shown to gradually return to normal. when you are at that airfield and choose a plane from the available list of aircraft, each aircraft could be marked with a summary of its status, eg "100% functional", "structurally sound, refueled, but not re-armed", "damaged left landing gear, but armed and fueled" etc..

note 2: you can take the same concept one step further, for ex returning from a mission with a damaged aircraft, you could land it at the nearest airfield. then select one of the other available aircraft at that airfield, and fly back to your home base (while CO of local airfield yells over the radio, "hey darn fool that is my aircraft, come back immediately !!"). once returned at your home airfield with whatever mode of transport you used along the way, you get roster'ed back on for whatever next flight is due. eventually, once repaired and refueled, your own aicraft would be shuttled back to your own base and become available again

[SlipBall]

(quote)
personally i am in favour of a keyboard key that would bring up a schematic of our aircraft, with a colour coded damage status. with for ex black marks where some damage was taken, with yellow marking important damage, and red marking critical damage (coolant or fuel loss for ex, structural damage that can soon lead to complete complete structural failure etc..). as initial damage leads to further deterioration, the colour coding might change over time while we are still flying, engine overheating and seizing etc). there might be other ways to do it, for ex bringing up a notepad with a "damage report" etc..




This sounds like a Terminator movie, I don't like it. I think that if you have damage, then its time to get out of there and try to get home.

[genbrien]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

(quote)
personally i am in favour of a keyboard key that would bring up a schematic of our aircraft, with a colour coded damage status. with for ex black marks where some damage was taken, with yellow marking important damage, and red marking critical damage (coolant or fuel loss for ex, structural damage that can soon lead to complete complete structural failure etc..). as initial damage leads to further deterioration, the colour coding might change over time while we are still flying, engine overheating and seizing etc). there might be other ways to do it, for ex bringing up a notepad with a "damage report" etc..




This sounds like a Terminator movie, I don't like it. I think that if you have damage, then its time to get out of there and try to get home.

agree
it's a sim, not an arcade game... in real life you dont have a nothing indicating what was hit or not.... only gauges, feelings and visual references

[tagTaken2]

Originally Posted by zapatista

whatever solution oleg finds to this, the main aim is to somehow use "visual aids" in a game to obtain or provide the same type of information the pilot would get in real life when flying an aircraft. by sitting in our livingroom behind a monitor we are missing a lot of clue's a real pilot would get. personally i am in favour of a keyboard key that would bring up a schematic of our aircraft, with a colour coded damage status. with for ex black marks where some damage was taken, with yellow marking important damage, and red marking critical damage (coolant or fuel loss for ex, structural damage that can soon lead to complete complete structural failure etc..). as initial damage leads to further deterioration, the colour coding might change over time while we are still flying, engine overheating and seizing etc). there might be other ways to do it, for ex bringing up a notepad with a "damage report" etc..

Or possibly a health bar for the aircraft. Maybe even an ammo counter on the screen, and a compass pointing to the next waypoint.