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#51
11-13-2009, 05:36 AM
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Great thread! I've read some great and interesting suggestions.
I can think of some things however its hard to determine whether these would be scripted/triggered events vs. things that could happen dynamically. Anyway, some preliminary thoughts... -How about a friendly pilot who goes absolutely crazy or loses his nerve? -How about a friendly pilot who defects to the enemy? -How about a friendly pilot crashing on take off? I guess the above would have to be relayed somehow through radio comms or else people would blame this stuff on flaky AI. -How about blowing out a tire and inducing a ground loop on takeoff or landing? I guess this could be more related to the DM than a scripted event. -I think seeing blood splatter on the inside of the cockpit after being injured could be shocking. Maybe you could even bleed out or lose consciousness. -Perhaps you could bail out and strike your plane, killing or injuring you. ________ Ship Sale Last edited by Necrobaron; 04-26-2011 at 07:24 AM. 
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#52
11-13-2009, 08:26 AM
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well, thanks for asking:
- returning smoking bomber/recon plane over the Channel coming from the opposite direction, maybe escorted by few fighters - seeing a returning smoking fighter coming home, while waiting for takeoff - being jumped by a pair of fighters at unexpected locations where you feel secure otherwise - seeing few aircraft battle over your field while takeoff, your side is in advantage - seeing convoy of ships being attacked by stukas or coast artillery - german speedboat formation engaging ships - smoking/burning damaged ship, leaking oil maybe, sailors in lifeboats - floatplanes operating, rescue operation in progress, pilots in water - huge smoke columns in the distance, distant artillery fire - trafic on the roads being attacked - fishing boats operating and being attacked - barrage balloon being hit by pair of fighters - sudden starfing attacks out of nowhere - enemy plane hitting ground while escaping in panic at low alt (for rookie pilots) - enemy aircraft scrambling from airfields when attacked - groups of horses/cows/sheep near farms/rural areas You need very visible/oblivious things which capture the players attention imho smaller details remain ofter unrecognized by the user. Last edited by vpmedia; 11-16-2009 at 06:23 AM.
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#53
11-13-2009, 08:40 AM
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Hi Luthier,
Another thing I've said before in another thread, but just to try to keep it always present, is the score system in multiplayer games (sorry to get in MP matters here but it looks appropiate). To avoid whining online and to maintain the team spirit, kills should be scored by all the planes who HIT an enemy plane, I don't know how hard could this be to encode but I hope is something achievable within the time frame you guys have. In IL2 if you kill an smoking plane you're not a good team player, you're a shoulder shooter or "kill stealer" and I have to admit sometimes I understand why the hard feelings... it is very annoying to see someone else rewarded for YOUR efforts while you're left with just 0 points. So it would be great to be able to share kills. 
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#54
11-13-2009, 02:49 PM
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Hi Luthier,
I think Feuerfalke hit the nail on the head: "It's an absolute immersion killer if you can be sure you're alone in the sky, maybe one other friendly squad and 1-4 enemy squads, maybe, but groundtargets only at your base and in your targetarea.Building on this - would it be possible to code a "randomise" function (I'm thinking of something similar to DGen where you could set levels of random friendly and enemy flights / ground activity, but much more powerful). The difficulty lies in breaking out of the 'scripted' element of the missions - in real life you could NEVER be sure that intelligence / briefings were correct. So, how about REALLY screwing up the predictability of a mission by deliberately including the possibility (through the "randomise"function above) that what you actually experience flying the mission bears little or no resemblance to the briefing? I can already hear the protests so let me try to explain: In a proportion of the missions the randomised elements would completely overwhelm the scripted/briefed elements - eg you are expecting / briefed to fly a fighter-bomber mission over enemy territory - what you actually experience is being bounced shortly after take-off by enemy fighters. But here's the key - this happens on a random probabilistic basis (9 times out of 10 it won't occur. Other things will. Maybe you make the target and drop your bombs as planned) I understand this has the potential to completely screw up BALANCE - so it would probably have to be switchable by players, but it definitely provides the possiblity to experience the unexpected (at the expense of truly 'balanced' missions) For some possible examples of randomised occurences I quote from vpmedia's post: returning smoking bomber/recon plane over the Channel coming from the opposite direction, maybe escorted by few fightersAlong the same lines I'd add: on your way to your mission you see a damaged friendly bomber coming home low under attack from enemy fighters. What do you do? Try to help or press on as per your briefing?
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#55
11-13-2009, 03:50 PM
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Someone mentioned this earlier but I really like this idea, being selected to test pilot new variants as they come online. I also like the idea of a group flying to another field to pick up some new planes or even the new variant your squadron is moving to, maybe even get jumped or diverted while on this delivery mission. I know animations have to be kept to a minimum but I would love to see the occasional enemy pilot waving his fist at you, or some of the displays of chivalry you hear about, like if the enemy pilot runs out of ammo before downing you, he'll pull alongside and waggle his wings and salute, this would have to be rare of course or it will loose it's significance.
I would also like to see if a pilot bails out in front of you just the wrong way he can hit and damage your AC. Maybe on long bomber runs some member of the crew will tell a joke to break the tension, etc.
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#56
11-13-2009, 04:01 PM
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-An interresting mission could be the calibration of radars, would require a lot of interaction with the ground control, but I understood that this interaction was already in the code. Maybe once in a campaign ?
-When downing an opponent over the sea, we could be able to tell the position of the enemy pilot to the ground control, so they send a rescue plane / boat. Idem for a wingman, if we see him under a chute. Maybe the player should have a feedback on his action : if the pilot was on his squadron, the simple fact that he is still here will be fine, but if it's an enemy pilot, maybe this enemy pilot could give the player his decorations, or something like that (in ROF, the player have a little gathering of objects he got during his missions : decorations, bits of planes, letters, etc). -Even if you don't want to implement random failures in the player's aircraft, it could be interesting to fake them for his IA wingmen. For ex., your flight of 6 aircrafts takes off to intercept an enemy raid on your base, and one of your IA wingmen leaves the formation, while saying on the comms "Oil pressure down, I have to abort the mission". Last edited by C6_Krasno; 11-13-2009 at 04:04 PM.
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#57
11-13-2009, 06:19 PM
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I think VPmedia had a really good point, regarding, maybe having to wait on takeoff while a damaged fighter or bomber is landing, and listening to some "disturbing" radio chatter between injured pilot and ground control.
This could really put people in the right mood, before heading up to engage a bomber stream etc.
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#58
11-13-2009, 07:55 PM
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Some excellent ideas all around but without meaning to offend anyone, Feathered takes the cake as it seems he's been thinking a lot about it.
I would really like to sometime see similar things in SoW, especially non-combat missions or missions with unarmed aircraft. If i'm reading and deciphering Oleg's posts right, these guys are building an engine to handle everything in the sim at a centralized level, so most of what you have in singleplayer you could possibly have it in MP as well. If the engine is as moddable as they are hinting it is, then we could have different campaign layers to interact with, all of which would be possible to enable/disable. Do you just want to fly around and shoot things? Good, because you can. Do you want to read intelligence reports on your or the enemy industrial output and strategic priorities, then plan the sorties yourself? Fine again, you can do that too. Imagine that we're 2 years in the future, flying an expansion of SoW and we have something like this... According to the latest orders, we need to switch our attention to the enemy's oil production and metal works. To that end, we need to identify major targets in the Ruhr. We need accurate information about target layout and possible defences. To that end and since you've recently been promoted to squadron leader and you want to lead by example, you're taking a photo recon mosquito this morning. Taking off and climbing early before the sun has even risen, you are thinking about how to do this. Do you fly under the radar and make a low-level run, or climb really high for a better shot of the target and hope your altitude and speed will be enough to escape any interceptors the enemy radars will throw at you? You decide to come in high and get some good photos of the target, flak and fighters be damned. This proves to be a good choice, as on your way out there is a small fleet of German torpedo boats attacking some friendly ships. If you were low they could probably spot and report you, but you're too high for them. If you can see them however, you can report them and let Coastal Command vector someone to their vicinity to dispatch them. Nobody sees anyone though, so you both go about your business. Crossing into Holland you check your navigation, you don't want to fly too close to any enemy airbases so your flight plan is zig-zagging between them. Radar will pick you up at some point of course, but why make your job harder? Nearing the Ruhr valley you make for the target. By this point it's almost certain that they know about you and your heading. Yep, just your luck, there's 4 little specks in the horizon, still below you but climbing hard. Wait, what is that? God, it seems like a dozen or so aircraft, maybe it's time to abort the mission. Firewalling the throttles you start climbing again, doing your best to keep high but not above the start of the contrail forming layer, something that will definitely give away your position for miles around (mig alley anyone? contrail formation height was a briefed item in that sim). Suddenly, you see another contrail off in the distance and then another and they gradually multiply. Your heart stops racing as you realize that the specks you saw, now marginally identifiable as 109s, are not after you but some 8th AF heavies that are heading out on a raid of their own. They appear to have been engaged already, as some are streaming black smoke. You wish the heavies luck and swing around to avoid the 109s, just as you see 8 specks break away from the rear of the friendly formation and their contrails moving towards the 109s at a considerably faster rate. Yep, these must be the P47 escorts. This is definitely not your fight. After a quarter of an hour you are over your briefed target, you snap your photos and make for home. You can see some activity in close-by airfields, dust is being kicked up by engine starts, so you assume they are now after you as well. Some 109s are returning with battle damage after their scrap with the 47s and some new ones are taking off, all in all there's a lot of activity going on and you need to slip by undetected. Firewalling the throttles again, you turn away from your briefed heading for a few minutes. Then, you go into a steep dive right down to the weeds. You are now under the radar and they should be looking at the wrong heading. Turning 90 degrees towards your real heading and having the extra speed from the long dive, you should be able to put quite a distance between your real position and the one they estimate... One and a half hour later you are back at the base. In the evening your photos have been analyzed and the strike planned for the target. You take a look at the suggested flight plan and alter a few things, then distribute it to the squadron. The next evening, you strap into a mosquito with target marker flares and set out to guide the squad to a night raid on the target. As you cross the north sea, you are briefed about contacts, possibly enemy. These Ju88s are at it again... Wall of text, i know, but sometimes it's better to tell a story than go all technical, as FeatheredIV demonstrated Just one final word for all this to work we're going to need a lot of dynamic triggers. We can't expect to have all this running on a current day PC, but it can run in the background and spawn/despawn accordingly, as the player nears or moves away from the items in question. Just my 2 cents.
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#59
11-13-2009, 08:44 PM
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I still go back to bailing out...
I think it should be a pretty violent thing, which IL2 didn't quite capture... Maybe pilots should tumble a bit after coming out of their plane instead of the sky-diver's 4-point fall from IL-2: I feel a bit crass relating this to real life, but here's actual guncam footage of pilots bailing out during the war: Maybe your own bail out could be the same way. There won't be a physical body in the cockpit, but your view could mimic your escape with pulling back the canopy, turning, 'leaping out', and tumbling away from the plane... Maybe the g-forces on the plane could limit your escape... If it's too violent, you aren't getting out at all (or it might just take longer).
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#60
11-13-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
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Linear Mode
