Question Regarding Grumman Lawsuit

Voyager · #1 10-16-2009, 02:52 AM

Actually, the whole "who owns the rights" gets really complicated with defense contracts. These days most governments are including explicit clauses into their contracts that when they buy it, they buy everything, including future design rights, including the rights to hand the designs to 3rd parties for additional design and development.

I'm told that the paperwork entailed in a single mid-sized DOD contract will fill a C-130 Hercules loaded on standard pallets. As in, they will literally fly a C-130 out there, and you will completely fill it with contract paperwork, shrink wrapped and stacked onto standard pallets in the appropriate Legal Paper loading configuration.

ElAurens · #2 10-16-2009, 04:23 AM

Two aircraft come to mind.

The Douglas A20 Havoc (Boston) and the Bristol Blenheim. Both were private venture developments that were not done to specific government contract requirements, but were purchased by their respective governments because their demonstrated performance was so good.

The P51 also sort of fits this description, because has you may recall, it was not built to a government specification. It was a private venture design offered to the RAF in lieu of the P40, that the RAF was actually looking to purchase.

proton45 · #3 10-16-2009, 04:39 AM

I really think that the "Grumman issue" was about using names that they own copyright to...names like "Grumman", "Wildcat" & "Hellcat".

I could be wrong...but i think I'm right.

nearmiss · #4 10-19-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proton45

I really think that the "Grumman issue" was about using names that they own copyright to...names like "Grumman", "Wildcat" & "Hellcat".

I could be wrong...but i think I'm right.

You could right, F4F-4 is a U.S.Navy designation, Wildcat is a "handle", which may be copyrighted.

From Bladerunner, movie by Ridley Scott

Ridley Scott’s Film, Blade Runner - ‘I think, therefore I am.’ As the humans begin to assume that the replicants are satisfied living as ‘slaves’ to their creators, the replicants answer with an affirmative ‘no’ by the emotional and intellectual responses they are giving.

Viking · #5 10-20-2009, 08:27 AM

We must not forget that Grumman et consorties (the "defence" contractors) live on fear. The population must live in fear and a belive that the outside world is evil and that US must use every available dollar to buy moore weapons from the contractors.

Then comes a Russian (one of the evil commies!) guy and gives microsoft a teatching on how a flightsim should look! And then the commie goes on and sort of clames that the Soviets won the war!!
Do you seriusly think that Grumman would slap Oleg on the back? " Congrats comrade you surly made a nice Grumman XXX there! This will cast some light on history and bring our nations together again like old times!"
Think not!

Regards

Viking

SlipBall · #6 10-20-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

We must not forget that Grumman et consorties (the "defence" contractors) live on fear. The population must live in fear and a belive that the outside world is evil and that US must use every available dollar to buy moore weapons from the contractors.

Then comes a Russian (one of the evil commies!) guy and gives microsoft a teatching on how a flightsim should look! And then the commie goes on and sort of clames that the Soviets won the war!!
Do you seriusly think that Grumman would slap Oleg on the back? " Congrats comrade you surly made a nice Grumman XXX there! This will cast some light on history and bring our nations together again like old times!"
Think not!

Regards

Viking

lol...it did not go down that way. It was a simple matter of property protection...happens every day around here

Skoshi Tiger · #7 10-20-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

Then comes a Russian (one of the evil commies!) guy and gives microsoft a teatching on how a flightsim should look! And then the commie goes on and sort of clames that the Soviets won the war!!Viking

Now I'm Australian and I am very proud of my father and his generations service during WWII, but when you look at the numbers on total casualties. (Sorry for the Wikipedia data)

Austalia - 41,200
Canada - 45,300
US - 418,500
UK - 449,800
USSR - 23,954,000!

Well I doubt that anyone could say that their country won the war but the USSR can at least say it did its share of suffering. If Oleg wants to be proud of his country's contribution to winning WWII that's OK by me.

Lucas_From_Hell · #8 10-20-2009, 02:11 PM

Agree with Viking - you commie bastard!

It just remembered those pre-90's American movies, with the evil Russians that ate live children and had baby heads for dessert.

Regarding to the whole discussion, it's just ridiculous. People just like getting money for everything nowadays. Worst than this, to me, only those bastards that can't take a joke and prosecute everyone because of it (yeah, I called you guys who do this BASTARDS. You are going to prosecute me?).

First this was happening mostly in the US, but then this spreaded world-wide. In Brazil this is happening very often too. I've seen cases of people getting about 9 thousand dollars because of such things (in this particular case, if I remember, it was something like students making jokes about some teacher on their Orkut community). I don't know who was the idiot that gave room to such things, but I bet he was a barrel-shaped anti-social nerd that was bothered by everyone during his childhood and decided to have a payback. Ridiculous.

PS: I don't have anything against barrel-shaped anti-social nerds, even because I'm not that thin

.

Vevster · #9 10-21-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nearmiss

You could right, F4F-4 is a U.S.Navy designation, Wildcat is a "handle", which may be copyrighted.

Hi all, especially El, who might recognise me (Oink!!)

Grumman holds the rights on the design of the planes as well, so they say.
so if you use a too-close representation of it, you could get sued.

The name "Drumman FBT Revenger" may not be enough to get them of a developper's back.

Same for those questions

1. What if Oleg and crew didn't use Grumman but either wildcat, hellcat ect or F4F-3 is there still a case for Grumman?

Yes

2. What if the a/c in question were added into the sim either by a free patch by Oleg or as we have now by mods, what then? There is no money involved there.

Money involved as even a free patch can be considered as helping your sales of the game.

BTW, be aware that other weapon manufacturers, including guns are starting to go the same way, so we might be doomed with fake weapons on FPS and such...or the costs will be added to the game.
(Car manufacturers have licensed their cars for a while now)

Want to help change the trend? Join the ECA in Northern America and / or write to your Congree representative.

ElAurens · #10 10-21-2009, 10:00 PM

Mon Ami! How have you been?

Vev is correct here. If you bother to go to the N-G website and look it up, they say their copyright covers names, designs, likenesses, virtual images, etc... of everything ever made by any company, active or defunct, that is/was under their corporate umbrella.

T3h evil bastages.