Recovering From A Stall

[JoNnY AnDrEwS]

Hi,

Does anybody have a surefire way of recovering from a stall, because I struggle to recover most of the time, mainly when in a proper stall, as in spinning to the ground?

The left stick in, right stick in just doesn't seem to do anything ?

Cheers,

Jonny

[Ancient Seraph]

In order to get out of a spin (it's not a stall) you have to keep ailerons neutral (or in the direction of the turn in-game I believe) and rudder in the opposite direction of the spin. For example, in a spin to the right, ailerons (left stick) to the right, rudder (right stick) to the left. Then it depends if you were in a flat spin or diving spin. In a flat spin you'll have to put nose down a bit in order to regain speed and be able to continue flying. In a diving spin you'll have to carefully get your nose back up, not too fast or you'll spin again. Note in both cases that in a real spin you hardly have any airspeed. You'll need to regain this to be able to continue flying.

[manintrees]

8 times out of 10 I just use the elevator to point my nose down and once I'm in a dive I use the ailerons to counteract the spin. Once the plane settles down just pull out of the dive. As soon as you start to pull out of the dive, hit the WEP and use your speed to get back some of that altitude you lost while recovering. Some planes seem to recover easier than others. I find the Spit recovers easily and the I-16 can be quite tricky.

[Wayfindre]

Try spinning the Me 262...

Enjoy!

[SgtPappy]

For all intents and purposes there are 2 kinds of stalls. here's a simple explanation of them

Low speed stalls and high speed stalls; the latter of which does not actually always happen at high speed.

Low speed stalls are created when your aircraft simply runs out of sufficient speed to maintain flight and create stability. When the aircraft moves too slowly through the air, the strongest force exerted on the plane it the torque on the fin/rudder. This causes the plane to simply tumble out of the sky, and, depending on the orientation of the plane at the time, it can result in a flat spin, or a simple wing-over.The latter is preferable because it allows the plane's nose to be pointed down so you can gain speed, and thus, lift. A flat spin can be difficult to get out of, but it is possible. It is always advisable to point the nose down, in any case and hard rudder in the opposite direction.

High speed stalls are likely what you are encountering the most. This happens when the aircraft is pulling so much angle of attack (a.k.a. Alpha, a.k.a. AoA) that the airflow over top of the wing is disrupted to a point that it no longer flows down the trailing edge. This is known as airflow separation. The lift at this point is destroyed over the affected area of the wing and, once again, the torque overpowers the minimal lift (or lack thereof) created under the wings. For this stall, simply push down on the stick with both opposite rudder and opposite aileron.

BUT here's where the torque can save you, at least in real life. On an aircraft with a clockwise spinning engine (seen from the cockpit), the torque itself will push the plane the left, inducing a left spin when lift is minimal. Thus, if you manage to enter a spin to the left, cutting throttle is a good idea so that the torque's gyroscopic effect lowers. If in a spin to the right, INCREASING throttle will help. Of course, for other planes that have props spinning in the opposite directions, the opposite applies.

here's a plane with a prop that spins counter-clockwise (from pilot's view).

[ChankyChank]

I've found spin recoveries are fairly accurate to real life spin recoveries. A fairly standard method for spin recovry is:
1. Power to idle
2. Ailerons neutral
3. Full rudder opposite the direction of rotation
4. Elevator forward past neutral position
5. Recover from the dive prior to Vne (never exceed speed)

using your ailerons will only aggravate the spin. Do not try to bank, power to idle and use rudder to recover from the spin. Remember a spin is the result of an uncoordinated stall in which one wing is more stalled than the other. If the wings are stalled the ailerons aren't going to be effective in maintaining directional control, and can actually aggravate the stall more.

[gbtstr]

Well, Chanky kind of beat me to it, but here:

Stalls and spins are two different things.

A stall happens when the wings stops making lift and you start to fall out of the sky to due gravity. The only way to stall a wing is to exceed its critical AoA (angle of attack).

To recover from a stall, generally all you have to do is release back stick pressure/lower the nose and add power. Lowering the nose decreases the AoA below the critical AoA, while adding power helps get your airspeed back (further decreasing AoA).

As SgtPappy mentions, there are low speed stalls and high speed (accelerated) stalls. To recover from a low speed stall, you generally lower the nose and add power. In an accelerated stall, you have basically exceeded the critical AoA by applying too much elevator/stabilator deflection. Unless anything else happens, all you have to do to recover is ease up on the stick.

(As you enter an accelerated stall there will be a significant buffet as the air separates from the wings - you can hear and feel this. Fighter pilots can max perform their aircraft by pulling to the "nibble of the buffet" - a point where just a slight buffet can be felt and heard. Beyond that point, you are in the stalled region where turn performance suffers greatly.)

A spin, on the other hand, happens when you are already stalled and you introduce a yawing moment. One wing ends up stalled at a higher AoA than the other and you get an autorotation (yaw and roll at the same time). Eventually, you end up in a stabilized flight path, corkscrewing toward the earth rather rapidly.

To recover from a spin, the general procedure (unless an aircraft-specific procedure exists) is to Power to idle, Ailerons neutral, Rudder full opposite the direction of turn and hold, and Elevators neutral - PARE. Care needs to be taken when recovering from a spin by first neutralizing the controls before attempting to recover from the dive. Failure to do so may result in re-entering a spin, usually in the opposite direction because the pilot failed to neutralize his recovery inputs prior to attempting to recover from the dive.

For the game, rudder opposite the spin and aileron into the spin is the recommended procedure. Aileron into the spin makes sense because generally the down-going aileron creates more drag than the other. Aileron into the spin means the outboard aileron is helping the rudder create extra yaw force to oppose the spin.

IRL, the PARE method will work with most aircraft, provided you have enough time (time = altitude). Some aircraft require "stick into spin" or some forward or aft stick input.

However, anything else will likely result in tightening or flattening the spin (i.e. killing you faster). Adding power will likely flatten the spin. Opposite aileron or rudder into the spin will tighten the spin.

[Cwl]

spitfire recovers quite easily

[MorgothNL]

Originally Posted by SgtPappy

For all intents and purposes there are 2 kinds of stalls. here's a simple explanation of them

Low speed stalls and high speed stalls; the latter of which does not actually always happen at high speed.

Low speed stalls are created when your aircraft simply runs out of sufficient speed to maintain flight and create stability. When the aircraft moves too slowly through the air, the strongest force exerted on the plane it the torque on the fin/rudder. This causes the plane to simply tumble out of the sky, and, depending on the orientation of the plane at the time, it can result in a flat spin, or a simple wing-over.The latter is preferable because it allows the plane's nose to be pointed down so you can gain speed, and thus, lift. A flat spin can be difficult to get out of, but it is possible. It is always advisable to point the nose down, in any case and hard rudder in the opposite direction.

High speed stalls are likely what you are encountering the most. This happens when the aircraft is pulling so much angle of attack (a.k.a. Alpha, a.k.a. AoA) that the airflow over top of the wing is disrupted to a point that it no longer flows down the trailing edge. This is known as airflow separation. The lift at this point is destroyed over the affected area of the wing and, once again, the torque overpowers the minimal lift (or lack thereof) created under the wings. For this stall, simply push down on the stick with both opposite rudder and opposite aileron.

BUT here's where the torque can save you, at least in real life. On an aircraft with a clockwise spinning engine (seen from the cockpit), the torque itself will push the plane the left, inducing a left spin when lift is minimal. Thus, if you manage to enter a spin to the left, cutting throttle is a good idea so that the torque's gyroscopic effect lowers. If in a spin to the right, INCREASING throttle will help. Of course, for other planes that have props spinning in the opposite directions, the opposite applies.

I dont want to bitch at you, but many of what you say is kind off against a lot of what I learned at flight school.

If you talk about 'all purposes' there are more types of stall then just high and low speed. (think about accalerated stall, deep stall, departure stall). Many can be put under either high or low speed stall category, but not all. (like the accelerated stall)

My teacher always used to say: stall has nothing to do with speed. (ofcourse an exageration) but what he meant was that the whole stall principle is no based on speed, but on angle of attack, shockwaves, boundarylayer seperation etc. Speed plays a role, but it is not the key to understanding stalls.

In the low speed stall you talk about speed. But the priciple of low speed stall is all about angle of attack. If you stall at 50 kts, you probarbly prevent that stall by increasing angle of attack.

The high speed stall you explain, is actually a accelerated stall. definition accelerated stall:An accelerated stall is a stall that occurs while the aircraft is experiencing a load factor higher than 1 (1g), In these conditions, the aircraft stalls at higher speeds than the normal stall speed. This is indeed what happens most of the time in the game. You fly fast, and put a sudden input of controls (for instance increasing AoA like you say).
Stall speed = stall speed 1g x (square root load factor). This type of stall is no per se at high speeds, as you can see in the formula. Imagine flying just above stall speed in level flight. If you put a sudden input in controls now, creating 2g, your stall speed increases by a factor of 1.5. thus making you stall if you were allready close to stall speed.

For good order: a high speed stall happens at HIGH speeds. We are talking about near sonic speed here. This stall caused many WW2 pilots their life, because this stall was still unknown in WW2. It happends when going so fast, that you actually start reaching local speed of sound somewhere on you plane. This will cause a small shockwave, wich seperates the boundary layer from you wing. This seperation occurs for instance half way your wing, in that case your ailerons will not have a boundary layer any more, and thus the can be moved all you like, but nothing will happen.
The P-38 lightning had this problem often because of its tail stabilisor. It would sometimes go so fast in a dive, that a shockwave would disrupt all the airflow before it reached the tail. Thus making his elevator useless, and making him unable to pull up out of the dive.

Sorry, dont want to be mr smartypants, but I felt this had to be clear

[SgtPappy]

No worries, no bubbles were burst here

I'm in aerospace engineering first year and I still have a lot to learn. Perhaps I should've said that before I went mouthing off.

But hey, we're talking about a game and for intents and purposes, that's all I needed to serve me in IL-2:1946.

Thanks for the info though, especially the terminology.

Yes, so the high speed stall is the compressibility phenomena pilots experienced during the war. A wise friend of mine, an aircraft museum educator once told me the difference between high speed and accelerated stalls but I guess I screwed up the definitions.