British FM killing the fun of the game for allied pilots.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

It is a characteristic of the FM not the joystick.

So what have you done to make your game controller act like the real control column?

[Crumpp]

pilots don't seem to note any actual problems

Well the pilots did note the same issues the NACA recorded.

for example, in the prototype:

From Handling trials of the Spitfire K.5054

The control is satisfactory as regards "feel" and response, but would be improved if the movement of the control column for a given movement of the elevators was slightly greater.

Keep in mind, he made absolutely NO MEASUREMENTS but this is all opinion from watching the ratio of blue and green out of the windshield, LOL.

Longitudinally the aeroplane is neutrally stable with engine on and stable in the glide.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/k5054.html

Longitudinally, the aircraft is stable with centre of gravity forward, but is unstable with centre of gravity normal and aft with engine 'OFF' and 'ON'.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/k9787-fuel.html

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

This is just such a typical bloody engineering attitude, because some maths says there is a problem but pilots don't seem to note any actual problems they bloody try and fix it anyway 'the Spitfire had desireably light controls'.......but we went ahead and made them heavier anyway because according to a graph this thing is unstable.

Oh yes blame engineers for making an aircraft safe, I mean who would want an aircraft to stay in the air I would much rather have it crash into my garden shed

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Oh yes blame engineers for making an aircraft safe, I mean who would want an aircraft to stay in the air I would much rather have it crash into my garden shed

Were not in a debate over safety here, it's about combat pilots finding a characteristic they enjoyed about an aircraft being neutered because of some officious pen pushing graph monkeys not being satisfied with measured results.

I personally have no gripes with the spanner monkeys and like to keep a good rapport with the engineers in my company, things actually get fixed when you are nice to them.

[bongodriver]

Given K5054 was the prototype is it not fairly obvious that any reports made during testing were likely acted on? but to suggest it took 3 years to address a stability problem with the production types is really stretching feasability don't you think?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

This is just such a typical bloody engineering student and/or young and/or academic engineer attitude, because some maths says there is a problem but pilots don't seem to note any actual problems they bloody try and fix it anyway 'the Spitfire had desireably light controls'.......but we went ahead and made them heavier anyway because according to a graph this thing is unstable.

Fixed that for ya

In that based on my 20 some years of being an engineer

I can tell you that 'most' seasoned engineers have a 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach..

Typically it is only the young and or student and or academic types of engineers that 'feel the need' to fix things that are not broken!

[Crumpp]

it took 3 years to address a stability problem with the production types is really stretching feasability don't you think?

Not when Operating Notes are full of symptoms of instability, the test pilots continue to report the symptoms of instability, the pilot anecdotes convey the symptoms of instability, and an independent aeronautical research organization confirms the issue.

Oh yeah, the engineering solution to the issue was also enacted AFTER the Battle of Britain:




No, I don't think it is stretching feasibility at all.

It is one of the facts that helped Gates to win the adoption of stability and control standards in the UK during the post war period.

[Crumpp]

In that based on my 20 some years of being an engineer

The same engineering experience that led to your discovery of the creation of energy in airplane performance a few years ago, Tagert?

[bongodriver]

I can tell you that 'most' seasoned engineers have a 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach..

Sadly some have an 'if I can't find the fault it ain't broke' attitude too.

[JtD]

It's interesting that all tested aircraft displayed longitudinal dynamic instability. Thought so based on the tests I've seen, but never before heard this summary. Good to know for certain.

OTOH I think it is a pity what has become of this topic in the last 48 hours.