Sure hope Oleg gets with the program

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by VMF-214_HaVoK

So if Oleg gets SoW out soon it will perhaps help prevent a cold war? Interesting but I just want to play a game.

And I do believe many of you are crossing the line in whats allowed here. I thought political and religious debates were against the rules. You guys just can not help yourselves it would seem and such exchanges is what gave UBI its bad name and now you all are doing it here. This is a game forum and should remain as such and if your wish to get all political and religious take it somewhere else please!

S!

Was dumb enough myself to get suckered in.
I whole heartedly agree, maybe an admin should step in and end this...No need to restart the cold war

[311thCopperhead]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Great post!
Why are American missiles in Poland anyway? Just what are they defending?

Europe. Simple. Same as awlways. we have far to many Allies in Europe who do NOT have anything remotly close to misslie defense. (piticularly in eastern Europe) Defending from whom should be the more accurate question here. I think we all understand the threat that Iran could be to Isreal and Eurpoe should they contenue to persue thier military prodjects in an offensive nature.
And how much money and financial aid did the US provide Russia after the fall of comunism? Some one checkt he figures. it was a pretty high number.
I personally love Russia. it's culture, people, and consider them a valuable partner in the world. It would seem odd to go back to thinking of them as an enemy. And for these two countreis to scrap every inch of progress they've made in relations for the last 15 years or so.....would be just a terible waste.

To go back to the way things used to be would be horrible. That'd mean i wouldn't be able to see St. Petersburg or Moscow. and that's 2 of the places i want to see on my "Bucket List"

Basically Putan & Bush have to go. Putan, from my limited understanding is a hold over from the old days (and a former KGB man) and Bush is......well Bush.
(need i say more lol)

As for how i would feel if Russia placed missiles in Canada.....So long as they're not pointed my in our direction i wouldn't care. I would trust the Canadian goverment to maintain a peacfull watch over it.
besides Ruassia allready did it once. (Ie Cuban Missle Crissis)....
only those missles WERE in fact pointed at us..unlike the missile defense system which will be pointed not in the direction of Russia....but at Iran.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by Crop-Duster

How would you feel if Russia put defensive missiles in Canada?

"I never Knew anything about the Russian war with Germany. It's just not discussed in the US, nor ever was."

There lies the problem^

Please do! If anyone read "Firefox down" where the Finns are depicted as being under the thumb of the Russian's and, certain portions of their population being willing to help the Americans as a result, the same thing is true of Canada. Some elements would welcome the bases just to be annoying, wouldn't we?

Anyway, it is true that there is great ignorance in the "West" with regard to the Russian contribution to winning World War Two and the unbelievable sacrifices made during the Great Patriotic War. I am glad to see this is changing.

It is also nice, that we can now talk, all of us around the world. Imagine 62' if we could chat person-to-person like this instead of leaving everything to the diplomats.

It is really nice to see the olive branches (especially when we disagree), that this thread started with.

It is interesting that the big arguments here are about things "inside of countries" instead of east vs. west? Its kind of like we "nations" are fighting battles for our own souls. If we can bring peace inside ourselves will we be able to be kinder and more rational in dealing with each other? I don't know. Hopefully 62' won't happen again though.

[Avala]

Nearmiss

Maybe war games played by both sides to sell the arms to the stupid ones. Stupid ones will buy arms from Americans to defend themselves from Russia, other stupid ones will buy arms to defend them selves from Americans, most stupider ones will of course buy arms to defend them selves from extremists. And everybody is happy, Joe will keep his work in the factory, Sergey will be again employed and have chocolate for his children, and Mohammed can happily continue to play his part, conscious of that part or not.

What can stop you from enjoy discussion and making friends with whom ever you want. Who can tell you what you can and with whom you are allowed to make friends? Why are your country have right to tell you what to think and what to tell? Why should you listen and align yourself with such nonsense? Who has legal right to indoctrinate you who are extremist in the world and who is so called good guy?

Why shouldn’t you think with your head instead watch television and news? You have seen now that Sergey and Joe are both great guys and very good friends, why they must start to play enemies and idiots again? For whose account? What is the difference between Peter in the US Marines and Abdullah in some terrorist group? Peter thinks that he is doing the right thing, so is Abdullah too. Peter will kill Abdullah’s brother in Iraq, so what; Abdullah will kill Peter, who is somebody’s brother too. What is the difference? Both will suffer equally.

All things on this planet, good or bad whatever, have only one purpose, to distract us from using our heads.

Maybe it is now not anymore: “Ask not what you country can do for you . . . “ maybe it is now time for: “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what yourself can do for yourself, for Sergey, Joe, Mohammed, how to make them all and yourself with them happy”. Maybe its final time to start to use our heads for thinking instead only for nice and fancy hair cuts. (me on first place)

[nearmiss]

Avimimus

It is good that we (the real people of our different countries) can talk and know that the people is not the problem. It is the greedy people that are power and money hungry that keep everything at odds. They manipulate media and politics to satisfy their special interests, and there is no regard or respect for "the people" on either side of the situation.

The internet is a good thing, because we can know our friends (the people) in Russia, Greece, etc., are not about hating and being suspicious of each other.

As an American I hate it that people in other countries speak against my country. America is a rich country, but there are other rich countries as well. America gives more financial and charitable aid to troubled nations than all the rest of the world's countries combined. That should speak to people about putting our money where our mouth is. Yet, we are constantly maligned and no one speaks of the facts... what their own country doesn't do.

If America didn't do the charitable things we do... who would do it, Japan, Germany, China, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, Taiwan, etc.? No one would do it, all they do is change the subject and give a pittance (inadequate help) to meet the need. So, they let America do it and then rag on us for whatever reason they can conjure up to get away for putting up (making an effort to really do something).

Also, to clarify... Please note I said,"Radial Islam" not Islam. There is a difference.

[FA_Retro-Burn]

It doesn't matter what we all think. The political leaders will play the queen's gambit and we all pay. It is amazing to me that in the Sim arena, that we all have a darn good time on-line with people from all different backgrounds and not really let that bigotry slip through. At least in this world, we try to do the right thing no matter what flag we may be under.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

As an American I hate it that people in other countries speak against my country. America is a rich country, but there are other rich countries as well. America gives more financial and charitable aid to troubled nations than all the rest of the world's countries combined. That should speak to people about putting our money where our mouth is. Yet, we are constantly maligned and no one speaks of the facts... what their own country doesn't do.

I think I should explain this: Many people do say hostile things about the United States. But for them the United States means many things other than what you might expect.

Most people in other countries, including most people who have "anti-American" views, actually welcome and like Americans who they meet and are often very sympathetic to the American people (eg. the sympathy rallies throughout Iran after 9/11).

In my country:

- It is often directed at a specific American government. This is especially true when members of the said governments meddle in the internal politics of other countries (example ordering a foreign government to fire a senior bureaucrat, meeting with opposition elements instead of the whole government, making threats).

- In countries that export a lot to the United States the local economic elites become invariably associated with the United States. This is in part because they tend to be owned by American companies or at least identify with them (and thus often advocate policies like the dismantling of Canada), but also because the United States government often takes their side against the local regimes. The problem is that any crimes, disasters or damages done by any of these companies are also linked in our minds with our vision of the United States.

- The term "Anti-American" is used as a political slur to tar anyone from terrorists to people who want to support their traditional cultures, or become like other societies (than the United States). Anyone who wants to have their own government, make their own decisions, be different in any way from the United States is regularly called Anti-American in some parts of the world.

- In part because people sometimes identify with the successes of the United States and in part because of "the American dream", many people associate the United States with cultural imports, or things that are wrong in their own society (eg. fast food).

In Canada it is regularly published in newspapers that the country will eventually become a part of the United States, that we should join now while we can still negotiate, where we are told that if we were ever to disagree in a significant way the result would indeed be invasion.

This may seem somewhat hard to believe, but all these things are true and do happen. Some are day to day facts of life, others only take place once every five years. But we remember them - we have no choice.

The point is people often love Americans while disliking America. If you just see it from our perspective, you will see how both things are not only possible, but necessary. Sometimes it isn't rational, sometimes it is the only logical thing (to disagree with any element of US police is termed "Anti-American" if you remember).

(If this isn't coherent and backed up by examples, I am in a hurry right now. If anyone would like to help gather examples from around the world - send me a private message).

Anyway, I hope this makes sense,

[WWTaco]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

It's just not discussed in the US, nor ever was. There was never interest in anything Soviet, principally because of Stalin and the cold war.

A broad statement. It is discussed and taught. To state it is not is untrue. Now maybe in your neck of the woods or the curriculum that was used you didn't have it. But as far back as the 6th grade I was learning about ww2 and the USSR's involvement. The scorched earth policy, Red October etc. Of course in college things were further expanded on.

It's all a bunch of Sabre Rattling. As far as the cold war it's good it is gone but, the world it seemed was a much safer place back when we knew all the Soviet nuclear material was accounted for...

[bomath]

WWTaco, it's next to irelevant the fact that there exists some academic interest. The guy said that it's not discussed, and the ones who dared were witchhunted as commie-lovers 'till the middle of the sixties, if not even right to these days. And if I don't make a mistake, more that 50% of the americans live „in the neck of the woods”, as proven in the last 8+ years.

And I guess no side talks too much besides the „official” lines; not about the napalm-bombing (disguised under the term „strategic bombing”) from the brittish and the americans, nor about the rape and pillage (remember the multiple watches?) which came with the russian „liberating” army, in each and every country en route to Berlin.

[mondo]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

IMO, I want to be friends with Russia and sure don't want to start the cold war over.

I totally agree we don't need another cold war but Bush is stoking those fires with his missile defence screen and in turn its pissing of the Russians. Parallels can be drawn with the Iron curtain but the other way round this time.