ATAG's 1st Bomber Night this Weekend

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Good point!!!

Your thought above reminds me of an old saying, "Mechanical Engineers build weapons of war, Civil Engineers build targets!" LOL

Question is how to place them? I had the same problem using them as targets. They are already on the map at the historical sites. If you want to place them in the same position you either have to carefully place them "inside" the current ones or create a dopelganger effect by placing them next to them... Creating a new site is problematic as there are so many ones already on the map, chances are the new ones maybe missed for the "onmap ones"....

Originally Posted by csThor

No, since Wotan is actually a radio beam system. The theory is quite similar to the later OBOE of the RAF, meaning one station provides the general direction by directing its beam towards the target while a second beam crossed the first over the target (or up to three - pre-signal, main signal, post signal). Aircraft using this system had two special devices on board (also known as X-Gerät) and each was locked onto one of the beams. Once both devices gave a continuous sound the target area was reached and the bombs were dropped. Only KGr 100 used the X-Verfahren in 1940 while III./KG 26 used the slightly more sophisticated Y-Verfahren (based on Wotan 2 stations) from November 1940 on. The latter was more accurate and could not be jammed - at least not easily.

Wotan stations were (at least in 1940) at Julianadorp (Den Helder), Audembert, Ecalgrain (Cherbourg) and Morlaix (Brest).

Right but the Germans did have ship seeking radar in 1940? I read somewhere when the discovered the British device in Dunkirk france, they laughed at the crudeness of it... After the war the better German system was adopted and developed... Maybe I should have said German radar instead of WOTAN.... But also that it was something that the Germans misunderestimated and didnt rely upon.

[csThor]

What you are talking about is FREYA. That was a true radar and - contrary to the british CH and CHL - it was mobile and technically slightly more sophisticated (for whatever that's worth). One such set was installed at Cap Gris Nez but it wasn't used for detecting aircraft (Freya was not really good at giving the target height, this is why it was later used in tandem with the more accurate Würzburg-Riese radar) but to monitor british shipping in the Channel.

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Interesting enough, I also get messages asking me to join the circuit after I take off. I know from the blue side, I typically only get those messages after setting up a radio station at the airfield, and (I think, if I remember right, its been awhile) setting up airfield.cpp. But with only Radar2 (left all 4 of yours), no messages.

If I remove all radar, and have 3 Defiants "intercept" (ok, its more like fly in the vicinity, they never attacked), I also get the contact message, although the wording is different.

Something's definitely changed, and for the better. Looks like you have to use the Radar1, the 4 tower set.

Also, I played it as a server, setting up a private lobby. Can't test dedi-box anymore, but hopefully someone with one reads this... (hint hint Repka/Bliss!)

This is great news!!!!

And a million thanks to IvanK for having the patience and perseverance to test all possible combinations on our behalf!

~S~

[klem]

Originally Posted by Sokol1

This mean that in the next event the CH towers are a valid target to BLUE side bombers...

Sokol1

But to be historically accurate you should only have a couple of goes at them then consider them to be destroyed, irrelevant or not an issue because the LW is so powerful.

wtg "Hermann".

[klem]

Originally Posted by IvanK

.........................
In addition CH stations were very directional. The coverage being at right angles to the array.
...............This directionality also being the reason that CH couldn't see inland ... the area behind the Towers being blind. Once the targets crossed the coast CH radar was useless ... the plots then only possible from Observer corps observations.

And for a little entertainment for those that don't know the story...

The Transmitters had an electronic screen at their rear, part of the assembly. It was, I believe, a mesh tuned to the opposite polarity of the transmitted signal so that no effective transmission was made to the rear, or at least very little. Anyway the screen failed one day in September 1939 three days after the declaration of war. When an unexpected aircraft was detected approaching the Thames from the East/NE Hurricanes of 56 Squadron were scrambled to intercept. Because of the failed screen these aircraft created a 'reflection' on the observers scopes and were interpreted as more enemy aircraft. More aircraft were sent up to meet the threat. Then more .... In the ensuing confusion a section of three 74 Squadron Spitfires shot down two of 56 Squadron's Hurricanes, causing the first RAF death in action of the war and what later came to be known to us all as "friendly fire". Remember this was before anyone had seen any fighter action let alone what a 109 might really look like in the sky. Sailor Malan, the Flight Leader of the six 74 Sqdn Spitfires claimed he called to his subsection of three that the aircraft were friendly and to break off but the subsection never heard the call and one of them was still saying 60 years later that there wasn't a call.

Anyway, this became known as "The Battle of Barking Creek".

It did have one positive outcome, the RAF looked long and hard at its procedures, everyone trained a lot more and were ready when it really mattered.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by klem

In the ensuing confusion a section of three 74 Squadron Spitfires shot down two of 56 Squadron's Hurricanes, causing the first RAF death in action of the war and what later came to be known to us all as "friendly fire". Remember this was before anyone had seen any fighter action let alone what a 109 might really look like in the sky. Sailor Malan, the Flight Leader of the six 74 Sqdn Spitfires claimed he called to his subsection of three that the aircraft were friendly and to break off but the subsection never heard the call and one of them was still saying 60 years later that there wasn't a call.

So there was no action in Fall of France or the low countries... No air cover over dunkirk?!

I think you wrote this wrong and really you are explaining the inexperience of the RAF in saying that THAT particular squadron had not seen these things...

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Very interesting, was there not also high chain home and low chain home for high and low altitudes? Have you found this can be implemented?

So to make it work we need 4Tx Radar 1 and 4Rx radar 2 with the same orientation. When you spawn in a radar tower I assume its orientation is 0. Its pointing longways up and down. So to change it to detect East we just spin it 90. I thought they detected from their widest part not from the side? Do they have to be linked in anyway or need any other special requirements? Is the orientation the direction they will detect?

Could Wotan be used to detect ships, Im sure I have read this somewhere? Or am I confusing this with late war German radar, something I know nothing about.

Chain Hom Low or CHL was indeed there as a gap filler. CHL was developed from an Army experiment to detect shipping (similar I guess to Freya). In the end CHL was well established by late 1940. It consisted of a conventional (in todays terms) rotating aerial spinning at around 5RPM. So CHL provided Omni directional coverage over short ranges. Though inland coverage was affected by ground clutter. Unlike CH, CHL had a PPI and a separate range scale. As far as I can make out CHL did not have a height finding capability.

Off to see if CHL is a 3D object in COD.

A great reference/read on British radar is the book "RADAR a wartime Miracle"



http://www.amazon.com/Radar-Wartime-.../dp/0750916435

[IvanK]

Static Object English Radar 3 looks like the 3D model for CHL.

[klem]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

So there was no action in Fall of France or the low countries... No air cover over dunkirk?!

I think you wrote this wrong and really you are explaining the inexperience of the RAF in saying that THAT particular squadron had not seen these things...

No, this was "September 1939 three days after the declaration of war". No one had seen any fighter action at that time.

I was commenting on the radar system and how it was supposed to be blind to the rear (as written in Ivank's post). On this occasion there was a failure of the radar and it led to incorrect plots, confusion and a regrettable death.

Just a little story for those interested.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by klem

No, this was "September 1939 three days after the declaration of war". No one had seen any fighter action at that time.

I was commenting on the radar system and how it was supposed to be blind to the rear (as written in Ivank's post). On this occasion there was a failure of the radar and it led to incorrect plots, confusion and a regrettable death.

Just a little story for those interested.

Ah yes I just read it again... The inexperience of the RAF. Thanks for clearing that up!

Reminds me of miller and miller and mitchell and webb in spitfire pilots.