4.11 - AI debugging

[Alien]

Not only jabos drop bombs when attacked. I play a QMB mission now to practice shooting (Crimea, low altitude, my advantage, 4 Il-2m3s + 3 Il-2s 3rd series and me in a Bf 109G-6) and every time I am next to the Ilyushins, they dump their bombs. IMO, they should do it when they're badly shot, unless they are already flying coffins (my attacks usually end up with a tailless Il-2 spinning to the ground after a single very short burst from a 20-50m distance, just like the experts hunted ). So it isn't just fighters' case, it's a common problem, especially in the eastern front.

[Bearcat]

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

[Lagarto]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who minds it. AI certainly don't black out, which gives them unrealistic advantage.

[Mundschenk]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

Thanks God I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this. A fix of that issue would be awesome!

[SPAD-1949]

Originally Posted by Mundschenk

Thanks God I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this. A fix of that issue would be awesome!

Yeah, thats been bugging me since I got into this sim.
And all over the versions, carburator fed enemy planes can dip and dive like a boss, dont shred to pieces in long high speed dives and climb like a pro.

Dont mess with a Hurry or a Mosca when you only have a lousy Bf109E

Dont try to follow your filghtleader in an attack

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

I'm not sure but I think they do... I convinced one to pull a tighter turn then me and suddenly he nosed downwards for several seconds before recovering. That was yesterday and I noted it as really interesting behaviour. But I think an AI programmer from TD would need to confirm.

I think the most common thing that happens both against the AI and against other humans is we get placed in a situation where we think we're pulling the same turn but, in an effort to lead the target, we're actually pulling a tighter turn and more G forces. In a high speed dive a few fractions tighter than your opponent and you could be in full blackout while he could be starting to blackout but still in control. It's just a matter of physics at that point

[K_Freddie]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

It seems like they do. I've had countless AI fly into the ground (flying over a flat plain) , so much so it starts to get annoying.
BUT - the problem seems that the AI can really do these incredible acrobatic feats and not black out, yet on some gentle turns, go making big holes in the ground.

It seems the AI has been programmed in reverse where I actually see the AI a/c literally rotating along the wing axis at high speed (which is a recipe for instant black out, besides losing a wing).. yet all is OK ?
It is possible that the AI are not programmed with the same FM as the player. From watching tracks, they really do some impossible physics which can only be explained by punching in numbers into the AI's so called FM.

Maybe a good test would be to place a G-Meter output on the screen for each aircraft - this would shake the hornets nest...

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

They don't have classic blackout, they have limited amount of G's they can pull instead. That works well enough in most situations. I logged their G's during fights on couple occasions and they were within reasonable margins. In general, I have lot more problems to make AI do the things I can do than to limit them in what they can do.

Originally Posted by SPAD-1949

And all over the versions, carburator fed enemy planes can dip and dive like a boss, dont shred to pieces in long high speed dives and climb like a pro.

They are not exceeding dive limits so there is no reason for them to lose aircraft's parts.

Originally Posted by IceFire

I think the most common thing that happens both against the AI and against other humans is we get placed in a situation where we think we're pulling the same turn but, in an effort to lead the target, we're actually pulling a tighter turn and more G forces.

True in most situations. Most players believe that they are good while in reality not more than 5% of the players knows what they are doing.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Excellent news.. I missed this before my last post.. FC.. those were some interesting tidbits about how to control the AI better.. are there any more things like that that might be helpful in getting us to better control the AI?

As a flight Leader you will be able to send commands to Wingman, Second Section and whole flight. Assigning target aircraft for them should work better than now. You will be able to Abort mission from any position in flight. You will be able to call contacts from any position in flight too, of course, you will not be able to order attacks if you are not the Leader.

I will say one thing that really makes controlling the AI an entirely different ball game... that is VAC (Voice Activated Command).

VAC type of control is the best solution but you still need solid and practical "silent" system because not everybody is in position to use voice during playing.

Originally Posted by Lagarto

Could you possibly stop AI from engaging enemy aircraft with dead engine?

In theory they should not attack planes that are not capable of combat but I guess that there is a loophole somewhere.

Anyway, they were supposed to defend their own base, engage the bombers, and not to waste ammunition on a plane which was about to ditch. In such situations they're useless (I was the lowest rank, so I couldn't give them any orders).

If they are supposed to attack specific target that have to be set in mission. Without that they will attack first target of appropriate type. I'll try to add target type preference to FMB in 4.13, it's to late to do it for 4.12.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by FC99

They don't have classic blackout, they have limited amount of G's they can pull instead. That works well enough in most situations. I logged their G's during fights on couple occasions and they were within reasonable margins. In general, I have lot more problems to make AI do the things I can do than to limit them in what they can do.


They are not exceeding dive limits so there is no reason for them to lose aircraft's parts.

True in most situations. Most players believe that they are good while in reality not more than 5% of the players knows what they are doing.

As a flight Leader you will be able to send commands to Wingman, Second Section and whole flight. Assigning target aircraft for them should work better than now. You will be able to Abort mission from any position in flight. You will be able to call contacts from any position in flight too, of course, you will not be able to order attacks if you are not the Leader.


VAC type of control is the best solution but you still need solid and practical "silent" system because not everybody is in position to use voice during playing.

In theory they should not attack planes that are not capable of combat but I guess that there is a loophole somewhere.


If they are supposed to attack specific target that have to be set in mission. Without that they will attack first target of appropriate type. I'll try to add target type preference to FMB in 4.13, it's to late to do it for 4.12.

Type preference sounds interesting. Would they be waypoint controllable or hard coded? Both? Not a fully formed idea in my head but I'm curious.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Type preference sounds interesting. Would they be waypoint controllable or hard coded? Both? Not a fully formed idea in my head but I'm curious.

I was thinking about WP target preference.