Friday Official Update, July 27, 2012

[Fenrir]

Nice petulant attitude round here.

Once you guys have stopped behaving like spoiled brats and have collected your toys and put them back in the pram perhaps you might take the time to consider a few things, like adults:

1) B6 is not a native English speaker -albeit quite a good one - and some of what he said on Friday*might* have beeen lost in translation. Perhaps the patch was never due out today.

2) They might have run into a serious issue with patch that can't be 'just fixed' as some round here seem to think it so easily done.

3) B6 is ill - and yet some of you still hound him for not establishing the patch status! Grow a little empathy will ya?! Some of us in this world have more important things to do - it's called life btw - than drip feed people here information on the status of a computer game. Jeez!

4) Given the recent move of Maddox Games and the general air of poor communication I'd hazard a guess that things are pretty tough there at the moment financially; I suspect that a lot of programmers are working long hours with little or no overtime pay to try and fix the game engine; the complexity of the new game features with the concurrent analysis of several million lines of still neophyte code to go through - most of which, if changed, will have several knock on effects to still more code - I personally am not surprised at the length of time fixes are taking to come about. Remember that peoples job security hangs on the ability to fix the code in order to make Battle Over Moscow, and ANY of the prospective further developments viable, sellable products. Those guys will know that. They will understand that in order to save their jobs and look at some prospect of employment longevity it has to be done. Or face the Russian dole queue (is there one?) in the midst of a world wide ecomomic recession. Given that motivation I don't think that attitudes round here are a) very relevent or b) very helpful.

5) I appreciate many of you are angry at having paid out for essentially a lame duck. It shouldn't have been released in that state but developer and publisher contracts are Holy writ. In an ideal world the 6 years of development should have come to more than this, I agree. However in the history of computer gaming things like this have always happened - how many duff games have hit the shelf over the years to be poorly supported, if at all. Christ, CFS2 was chock full of bugs - for those who remember it - and that was Microsofts most succesful Combat Flight Sim! The point is you can't keep haranguing them for it - what is done is done, and no amount of bitching moaning or threatening can change that.

5) We've been spoilt with Il-2, first by Oleg and now Team Daidalos, whose free and regular quality patching over the past 11 years has been exemplary, if not unique. However Il-2s coding is by all accounts several orders of magnitude simpler. All those features you wanted for BoB, that weren't in Il-2? Extra code. And not just one line, but probably a several hundred, each one cascading and interlinked to many others. Finding the faults, let alone fixing is going to take much more time than with Il-2. And every time you do fix, it is likely that it throws something else out. You demanded certain things be modelled, you said that you wanted higher fidelity. Well welcome to the cost gentlemen. Codes don't write themselves. Someone - and not just any someone but a trained, smart, motivated, alert and observant computer programmer - has to be sitting in front of a machine punching the keys. This takes time. Get used to it.

[MegOhm]

Yah Fenrir...well said.

it is easy to get sucked into the vortex...

Thanks for the Calibration...

<S>

[Walrus1]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Nice petulant attitude round here.

Once you guys have stopped behaving like spoiled brats and have collected your toys and put them back in the pram perhaps you might take the time to consider a few things, like adults:

1) B6 is not a native English speaker -albeit quite a good one - and some of what he said on Friday*might* have beeen lost in translation. Perhaps the patch was never due out today.

2) They might have run into a serious issue with patch that can't be 'just fixed' as some round here seem to think it so easily done.

3) B6 is ill - and yet some of you still hound him for not establishing the patch status! Grow a little empathy will ya?! Some of us in this world have more important things to do - it's called life btw - than drip feed people here information on the status of a computer game. Jeez!

4) Given the recent move of Maddox Games and the general air of poor communication I'd hazard a guess that things are pretty tough there at the moment financially; I suspect that a lot of programmers are working long hours with little or no overtime pay to try and fix the game engine; the complexity of the new game features with the concurrent analysis of several million lines of still neophyte code to go through - most of which, if changed, will have several knock on effects to still more code - I personally am not surprised at the length of time fixes are taking to come about. Remember that peoples job security hangs on the ability to fix the code in order to make Battle Over Moscow, and ANY of the prospective further developments viable, sellable products. Those guys will know that. They will understand that in order to save their jobs and look at some prospect of employment longevity it has to be done. Or face the Russian dole queue (is there one?) in the midst of a world wide ecomomic recession. Given that motivation I don't think that attitudes round here are a) very relevent or b) very helpful.

5) I appreciate many of you are angry at having paid out for essentially a lame duck. It shouldn't have been released in that state but developer and publisher contracts are Holy writ. In an ideal world the 6 years of development should have come to more than this, I agree. However in the history of computer gaming things like this have always happened - how many duff games have hit the shelf over the years to be poorly supported, if at all. Christ, CFS2 was chock full of bugs - for those who remember it - and that was Microsofts most succesful Combat Flight Sim! The point is you can't keep haranguing them for it - what is done is done, and no amount of bitching moaning or threatening can change that.

5) We've been spoilt with Il-2, first by Oleg and now Team Daidalos, whose free and regular quality patching over the past 11 years has been exemplary, if not unique. However Il-2s coding is by all accounts several orders of magnitude simpler. All those features you wanted for BoB, that weren't in Il-2? Extra code. And not just one line, but probably a several hundred, each one cascading and interlinked to many others. Finding the faults, let alone fixing is going to take much more time than with Il-2. And every time you do fix, it is likely that it throws something else out. You demanded certain things be modelled, you said that you wanted higher fidelity. Well welcome to the cost gentlemen. Codes don't write themselves. Someone - and not just any someone but a trained, smart, motivated, alert and observant computer programmer - has to be sitting in front of a machine punching the keys. This takes time. Get used to it.

+1. So true, and very well said.

[Whizkid]

Bloody right on, Walrus 1! I've never seen such negativism in my life as exhibited by the so-called adults on this Forum! Typical of the over-pampered, instant gratification, generation who expect everything NOW, if not sooner. I've been very tempted to quit my membership in this Playroom until some some maturity is exhibited, but as I also am looking forward to the end results I'll stay and just ignore the rants. Although my PC is not fast enough to really enjoy CLOD right now, I hope to improve it shortly. Meanwhile, my hat's off to the guys at 1C for their efforts to constantly improve things, and for not throwing their hands in the air with disgust at the reception they get all the time! Just know that some of us DO appreciate your work, Developers, and support you wholeheartedly! To the cry-babies on the Forum, GROW UP!

[MB_Avro_UK]

Well said, Walrus1

You articulated my thoughts exactly.

This is the most complex flight simulator in the world. And by far.

The developers have entered new and very challenging digital territory.

I compare the developers to Alcock and Brown, who in 1919 were the first to fly the Atlantic non-stop. The flight was long and dangerous. They almost died. Many said it couldn't be done and others hoped for their failure. But they didn't give up. They survived. And today, we take for granted their achievements.

Out thoughts are with you all.


Very Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[satchenko]

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

Well said, Walrus1

You articulated my thoughts exactly.

This is the most complex flight simulator in the world. And by far.

.

[Walrus1]

Originally Posted by Whizkid

Bloody right on, Walrus 1!

Thanks, but give Fenrir, who said it originally, all the credit! I just +1'ed.

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Walrus1

Thanks, but give Fenrir, who said it originally, all the credit! I just +1'ed.

Lol..I wasnt going to say anything..thought id give you your moment to bath in glory

[adonys]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Nice petulant attitude round here.

Once you guys have stopped behaving like spoiled brats and have collected your toys and put them back in the pram perhaps you might take the time to consider a few things, like adults:

1) B6 is not a native English speaker -albeit quite a good one - and some of what he said on Friday*might* have beeen lost in translation. Perhaps the patch was never due out today.

2) They might have run into a serious issue with patch that can't be 'just fixed' as some round here seem to think it so easily done.

3) B6 is ill - and yet some of you still hound him for not establishing the patch status! Grow a little empathy will ya?! Some of us in this world have more important things to do - it's called life btw - than drip feed people here information on the status of a computer game. Jeez!

4) Given the recent move of Maddox Games and the general air of poor communication I'd hazard a guess that things are pretty tough there at the moment financially; I suspect that a lot of programmers are working long hours with little or no overtime pay to try and fix the game engine; the complexity of the new game features with the concurrent analysis of several million lines of still neophyte code to go through - most of which, if changed, will have several knock on effects to still more code - I personally am not surprised at the length of time fixes are taking to come about. Remember that peoples job security hangs on the ability to fix the code in order to make Battle Over Moscow, and ANY of the prospective further developments viable, sellable products. Those guys will know that. They will understand that in order to save their jobs and look at some prospect of employment longevity it has to be done. Or face the Russian dole queue (is there one?) in the midst of a world wide ecomomic recession. Given that motivation I don't think that attitudes round here are a) very relevent or b) very helpful.

5) I appreciate many of you are angry at having paid out for essentially a lame duck. It shouldn't have been released in that state but developer and publisher contracts are Holy writ. In an ideal world the 6 years of development should have come to more than this, I agree. However in the history of computer gaming things like this have always happened - how many duff games have hit the shelf over the years to be poorly supported, if at all. Christ, CFS2 was chock full of bugs - for those who remember it - and that was Microsofts most succesful Combat Flight Sim! The point is you can't keep haranguing them for it - what is done is done, and no amount of bitching moaning or threatening can change that.

5) We've been spoilt with Il-2, first by Oleg and now Team Daidalos, whose free and regular quality patching over the past 11 years has been exemplary, if not unique. However Il-2s coding is by all accounts several orders of magnitude simpler. All those features you wanted for BoB, that weren't in Il-2? Extra code. And not just one line, but probably a several hundred, each one cascading and interlinked to many others. Finding the faults, let alone fixing is going to take much more time than with Il-2. And every time you do fix, it is likely that it throws something else out. You demanded certain things be modelled, you said that you wanted higher fidelity. Well welcome to the cost gentlemen. Codes don't write themselves. Someone - and not just any someone but a trained, smart, motivated, alert and observant computer programmer - has to be sitting in front of a machine punching the keys. This takes time. Get used to it.

since you play the devil's advocate role, let me take the prosecutor's one, please.. will you?!!

so.. let's see..

1) it isn't B6's fault that he's not good at english (and he really isn't). on the other hand, it's surely MG's fault.. how hard would it be to find out a decent english speaking employee in 2012? I guess, specially when that's a programmer, it's actually harder to try and find one who isn't at least an acceptable english speaker.

most of the game development/programming/WW2 and WW2 aviation documentation are in english.. don't tell me.. they have a translator.. well then, they could have using that translator to translate their forum posts too, you know..

it's like a summer beach hotel hiring a babylonian speaking only receptionist in the middle of the season.. or like shooting yourself in your leg!

this goes for a Darwin award class B

2) i'm 200% sure that's the case.. but yet.. why just not tell us so.. and tell us the shop is closed for another week, until they'll clean up all the bugs and they can open it again.. how sadistic a person one must be to keep the customers in line for a full week, while you're painting your bakery's walls with insecticide?!!

this again goes for a Darwin award, class B

3) and?!! people got ill all the time. people even die, you know? do you think MG will stop selling BoM for a week because one of us died while waiting for it?

also, we have a life too, and I don't like to spend it F5'ing MG's forum.. a minimum respect for my customer's status and time would have been to just put a "go away no patch new until 25th august 2020" 9 words announcement on the forum.. would that have been too much to ask for my 60 £ Collector's Edition IL2CoD?!!

the show must go on, as I'm sure you know it. B6 is ill, we all wish him well, but this doesn't meant there's no one else on this world which could write a few lines in a post on the forum..

for God's sake, even copy/pasting the build's download link would have been enough, we already got used to getting them without any kind of readme whatsoever!

there you go, you wouldn't even have to knew english to do this.

Darwin class D for this one.

3) hmm.. dunno what to say about that.. I would have thought that IL2CoD's launch reception and sales faster than light sale drops should have thought them until now that they really need to pull up their heads from their arses and actually do something to fix the mess they've created it by themselves!

but considering their behavior.. it seems not.. and in this case, a vocal punishing community expressing it's frustration might still wake them up and force them do the right thing, by showing the only dragon they fear: our wallet

Another D in here..

5) what are you trying to say in here.. that if some game on which we paid once was shitty and full of bugs, we must continue to accept and pay for shitty and full of bugs games?!!

aaa.. really?!!

This one's a clear winner for an A Darwin award

6) (I'm sure you meant this last one to actually by 6, and not 5 bis)

are you a programmer? have you ever worked in game development industry? have you ever coded a game for yourself? have you at least read some books about game development?

no?

then.. how can you pretend that IL2CoD's is the most complicated game to code in this part of the Universe?!!

the scenario you actually put in there is actually valid for all games, even for Solitaire.. this really shows your level of expertise in this one.

and just to let you know, IL2CoD it is NOT, and this by far, the most complicated game/software to be developed these days (and if you need arguments fo this, do a search for one of my posts about this).

stop being an ignorant pretending he knows the absolute truth, and start using your head to do the thinking.

And another A Darwin award winner


And in the end, just to make it crystal clear: we all know that development takes time, and nothing can be achieved over night. We're just asking for respect, to be treated like adults and not to be feeded with ridiculous lies even a blind man can see through!

[SacaSoh]

adonys, it's impolite to burst one's "absolute truth bubble" by throwing Darwin awards at it.