The 'Great Debate' - Spitfire vs BF109

[TomcatViP]

Hey guys I am flying AS MUCH my beloved Hurri than the 109. It's perfectly even. I was flying on ATAG so you might have an interested look at my stats.

I will fly the Spit when it will eventually fit my expectations. That's it.

And I think that using the 1min boost repeatedly on the 109 is despicable. I am not doing that myself for the same raison that I keep my hood closed right after Take Off in the Hurri.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

I will fly the Spit when it will eventually fit my expectations. That's it.

lol

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Hey guys I am flying AS MUCH my beloved Hurri than the 109. It's perfectly even. I was flying on ATAG so you might have an interested look at my stats.

I will fly the Spit when it will eventually fit my expectations. That's it.

And I think that using the 1min boost repeatedly on the 109 is despicable. I am not doing that myself for the same raison that I keep my hood closed right after Take Off in the Hurri.

I was speaking in general, I know that you used to fly the Hurricane quite a lot in the last official patch You wouldn't be that impressed with it in the 1.07 though I guess.

[TomcatViP]

If you want to get an idea how horrendous it will be, fire up Jane's WWII and have a try.

That was the last time I saw a good FM for that plane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8Uq_dhWIB0

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Robo.

You wouldn't be that impressed with it in the 1.07 though I guess.

yeah I still hve got to test the new patch. perfectly true.

You switch yourself to the Spit ?

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

yeah I still hve got to test the new patch. perfectly true.

You switch yourself to the Spit ?

I fly anything as you know, but as a Squad we fly Hurricanes. I do fly Spitfires too (always did, mainly Ia in the old patch), mainly because you can't start the new Hurricanes on the ground - it takes some 10 minutes of intensive 'I' button hammering.

How much time did you spend in the Spitfires then?

[II./JG1_Wilcke]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Naca & RAE curves describe instrumented flights were the test pilot had to follow a predetermined trajectory. Nothing like what most of the fighter pilot will try to do.

Still it is interesting that it give us an indication that the ctrls were not the one we have in the sim where the Spitfire act like an F18.

Attention to details and imperfections are what makes a great sim.



I hve always said that I do believe that the 109 was more difficult to master than the Spit. It's an evidence for me.

What you told us about your experience in gliders is interesting. Thank you for the feed-back.



I was talking of the travel range in roll that shld be more or less the same as the one in pitch -ie control harmonization - sry for my bad English

It would be interesting (and relatively easy) to hve it implemented in the Spit model.

That is my biggest take away from all this work and research. The fact being that these sims allow us a sneak peak into 'what it must have been like', and thats about it really. To really simulate the inate virtues and foibles of all these airframes along with all the other vagaries inherent in driving a wing in atmosphere is I think at this point in time asking to much from any sim developer.

Cannot wait to read the 109 information!

Well done!

[BRIGGBOY]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

They were both close enough in performance that tactics and pilot skill were the determining factor.

End of.

+1

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by II./JG1_Wilcke

Cannot wait to read the 109 information!

Well done!

don't bank on it.

[winny]

There's a famous account by Brian lane of a turning dogfight with a 109 during the BoB. For me it sums up the Spit vs 109 debate.

Lane found himself on the tail of a 109, which was obviously being flown by an expert, he found it hard, but possible, to stay with the 109 whilst it's pilot 'threw it all over he sky'. The chase progressed and the German pilot started circling to try and get on Lanes tail, and was gaining. Lane then describes 'riding the buffet' and in turn gaining on the 109. He then describes seeing the slats deploy on the 109 and the ailerons starting to snatch. The German pilot knew his situation was getting worse and rolled out and dived away. Lane couldn't catch him.

The reason it sums it up for me is that when 2 pilot's dogfight there's a certain ammount of weighing up of the opponent that goes on, they knew when they were up against someone good, and they knew when they were up against someone bad.

The dogfight starts with the German throwing moves that would have probably shaken off average pilots, that didn't work so he tries to get on the Spit's 6. That makes sense. It's well known that a lot of Spitfire pilot's would back off at the first sign of the buffet, when in fact you could fly through it.

At the point the German realised he was being caught he used the mechanical advantage he had and dived away.

Skill and experience didn't work so at that point he used the plane.

109 and Spit were so close, both had faults, both had pilots that knew how to work round them.