4.11 - AI debugging

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by FC99

It seems that problem with the trains is the old one, I tried it in 4.05 and it was the same as 4.11.1. Can somebody who have one of the older versions installed double check that.

Confirmed. I tried the same scenario (153's bombing an ammo train) in 4.08m and the 153's kept strafing the destroyed locomotive.

Aviar

[K_Freddie]

Not sure whether this has been mentioned (too lazy to read a 1000 posts )

Offline play:
I notice that on all Ace settings 4vs4, when getting onto any AI opponents tail, it's supporting number will be onto me if I don't hit my target on the first pass.
At the same time I ask my #2 to cover me.. he's nowhere to be seen ??, even after minutes of dodging the covering opponent.

Summary:
Target AI are able to work as a team more than your own AI = No good
This is not random, but every quick mission set.

[jameson]

Agree about Ai, sits in your blind spot and does nothing to help not even give a warning. If you're head of four, if you don't order them to do something they just follow you around, even if six enemy ai are shooting at you, lol!

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by JtD

Hi sniperton, it is always good to record a track and share it, it is the easiest way for TD to look into issues. They may be very specific and hard to reproduce. In case of AI I've also had issues like you describe, but not always and found it very hard to pinpoint the circumstances under which AI will go foolish. I know that low fuel level may cause AI to head for home, can this be a reason for what you are seeing?

With Murphy I can say that odd things only happen when ntrk recording is off... Otherwise I completely agree, and, yes, AI is not always foolish: that's the biggest problem -- at least so far as debugging is concerned. As to fuel level, flight #2 left me after some 80-100 kms of flight with G.50 Freccias, so I don't believe it was the reason. Anyway, next time it happens I will check it.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Aviar

Confirmed. I tried the same scenario (153's bombing an ammo train) in 4.08m and the 153's kept strafing the destroyed locomotive.

Thanks for checking, fix ready for 4.12.

[Sita]

i'm sorry if somebody already talks about it ...

i notice that TB3 no attacking ground target not by level bombing ...

now they do it like Il2 ... yesterday i watch like two TB3 keep the formation goes down from 2500 meters till 200 meters and drop bombs on the car convoy ...

its not logical for this monster plane ...

[Whacker]

I'm going to toss this up here in this thread, even though it might be considered 1. controversial and 2. a feature request, but I personally mostly view it as "buggy".

Simply put, the AI has ESP and can detect you trying to sneak up on them, even if it's from a completely unviewable quadrant.

For example, if I set up a mission in FMB. Identical aircraft, say 109E-4's, theater irrelevant but I like sands of time. I'll start the badguy on a level flight at 1000 meters flying a perfectly straight and level track at say 300 kph. I'll start myself about 2km directly behind and below by about 200 meters. Proceed to "sneak up" on the badguy as best I can, staying directly below and behind, which I know for a fact is within the blind area. With full mouse of trackir movement, visibility in my approach area does not exist. One would have to turn the aircraft several degrees on the horizontal plane to see back directly behind. No matter what, if I execute a perfect approach completely in the blind spot, the badguy will always, always "detect" me and go defensive when I'm close enough. The detection range varies by skill as far as I can determine.

I view this as a bug, there is no possible way one pilot could detect another one sneaking up like that unless they did some active, conscious flight direction change in order to "clear six". One should be able to "sneak up" on another aircraft in blind spots if done correctly.

Also would like to reiterate that I realize AI development is difficult, imperfect science at best with everyone pissing and moaning about his or her particular desires, complaints, etc. Also realize there are other bigger fish to fry, like tweaking the jets a bit or who the heck knows what else.

Is there any way we could get something done to help address this in 4.12?

[JtD]

But we already have this in 4.11, that's why the AI is performing manoeuvres to check their six.

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by Whacker

I'm going to toss this up here in this thread, even though it might be considered 1. controversial and 2. a feature request, but I personally mostly view it as "buggy".

Simply put, the AI has ESP and can detect you trying to sneak up on them, even if it's from a completely unviewable quadrant.

For example, if I set up a mission in FMB. Identical aircraft, say 109E-4's, theater irrelevant but I like sands of time. I'll start the badguy on a level flight at 1000 meters flying a perfectly straight and level track at say 300 kph. I'll start myself about 2km directly behind and below by about 200 meters. Proceed to "sneak up" on the badguy as best I can, staying directly below and behind, which I know for a fact is within the blind area. With full mouse of trackir movement, visibility in my approach area does not exist. One would have to turn the aircraft several degrees on the horizontal plane to see back directly behind. No matter what, if I execute a perfect approach completely in the blind spot, the badguy will always, always "detect" me and go defensive when I'm close enough. The detection range varies by skill as far as I can determine.

I view this as a bug, there is no possible way one pilot could detect another one sneaking up like that unless they did some active, conscious flight direction change in order to "clear six". One should be able to "sneak up" on another aircraft in blind spots if done correctly.

Also would like to reiterate that I realize AI development is difficult, imperfect science at best with everyone pissing and moaning about his or her particular desires, complaints, etc. Also realize there are other bigger fish to fry, like tweaking the jets a bit or who the heck knows what else.

Is there any way we could get something done to help address this in 4.12?

When I set up a similar situation in the FMB, I was able to sneak up on the enemy AI 6 without being 'seen'. (Test mission is attached if anyone would like to check it out.)

When I set up a similar mission in the QMB, the AI always knew I was behind him.

I'm not sure why the AI in the QMB seems to be programmed differently.

Aviar

[JtD]

I've managed to sneak up on AI in QMB, too. I've also managed to be spotted, against all odds.

But imho it is better to have AI react to you when it should, then to have it not react when it should. AI programming is not a 0-1 issue, pun intended.