Ammo Belts Loadout/Exploit Poll

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Fjordmonkey

To be honest, I don't care either way. Just because someone has loaded his guns with the best ammo out there doesn't mean that he's any good. True, he might get lucky, but meh. He can still be shot down regardless.

That's not the point, this is a sim. This simulator simulates the battle of England, and therefore I would like to see historical load-outs. It's great for experimenting and all that, and do what you like with it, but not on my server. If I had a server, I would want to lock a certain belting for every player to make it a full real server ( at least as far as we can be realistic in this game ).

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Sven

That's not the point, this is a sim.
If I had a server, I would want to lock a certain belting for every player to make it a full real server ( at least as far as we can be realistic in this game ).

So what 'certain belting' would you give each specific aircraft to make it 'full real' in your view?
For sake of argument, let's say it's 30 red and 30 blue, fighters only.
Please let me know, gun by gun, bullet by bullet.

But how many of each specific mark of aircraft available in the game would you allocate to each side for a given specific date during the Battle of Britain out of the same 60? This would of course have a significant impact on ammo loadouts also.

Please quote your sources of reference for making both the ammo loadouts and ratio of aircraft available 'full real' for a given date during the Battle.

I'll be particularly interested in your 'full real' ammo loadouts for the Italian aircraft involved in the Battle of Britain. Although the dates are somewhat limited for these.

Your final comment in parentheses says it all. This cannot be a 'full real' sim of the Battle of Britain, it can only be a game due to the restrictions of our computers and the number of players available.
Command and Control is somewhat limited also.

This whole loadout discussion isn't about 'full reality' or 'sims', it's about whether blue team has an advantage over red team, or vice versa, in a game.

I'd still be interested in your loadouts however.

[Skoshi Tiger]

In various video clips I've seen the armourers making up the belts for the fighters, basically it's a couple of blokes sitting at a desk with a machine, they have a hopper of links and a chute they feed the bullets into. They pull the leaver and the round is added to the belt.

Now what woiuld be interesting would be knowing what the procedure was for varying the make up of the belts. Was it just a matter of getting someone with sufficient rank to go down and ask them to put together a belt with a certain sequence? Or did it require a request to the Air Ministry or some other board like that?

How much freedom did they have at squadron level with things like belting configurations and convergences? As proffessional pilots did they sit around over cocktails discussing thier belting and having a go the next day?

I assume if they had supply issues of any particular round they'd have to use an alternative sequence, who was responsible and what was the procedure for choosing it?

In the British loadout sections we have a range of unusual rounds like the MKI and MKVI ball ammo. These rounds run about 500fps slower than most of the other rounds on the list. Would you really want to have these rounds in a belt with the H/V rounds? They'ld have completely different ballistics and would throw your convergense right out the window.

Cheers!

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Was it just a matter of getting someone with sufficient rank to go down and ask them to put together a belt with a certain sequence? Or did it require a request to the Air Ministry or some other board like that?

As professional pilots did they sit around over cocktails discussing thier belting and having a go the next day?

At a guess, I'd say the armaments officer told the C/O what was available in the stores, and they agreed a mix which best matched the experiences of the Squadron at that time.

Then when a new delivery arrived, they'd have another meeting. If they had time that is, although it's doubtful they'd discuss it over cocktails. 'No shop talk in the Mess, Old Boy!'.

No doubt there were some Air Ministry guidelines (there usually were, for better or worse) given the research done by Sorley and his successors, but as with 'Fighting Area Attacks', the Squadrons would soon develop their own approach.

But of course I'm guessing. Nothing 'full real sim' about that. Or is there?

[Red Dragon-DK]

No matter how it will turn out for sever choice Im VERY pleased to see ATAG is against it and will do full real the historic way, where you can make your belt at the type of sorties you are going to fly. They did that in real life, depending if they are going to attack a convoy or you simple fly a cap protecting your area. Thanks for that ATAG. Alway a great server to fly on.

I think its a bit sad to see how sombody will try to limmit people to fly diffrent cind of sorties and make it more arcade. But the sad part is, they are using the arguments like its more historical and realistic. Its certainly not the case. They changes ammo belts depending of there mission. And so should you.

@Skoshi Tiger: You are right

In various video clips I've seen the armourers making up the belts for the fighters, basically it's a couple of blokes sitting at a desk with a machine, they have a hopper of links and a chute they feed the bullets into. They pull the leaver and the round is added to the belt.

Now what woiuld be interesting would be knowing what the procedure was for varying the make up of the belts. Was it just a matter of getting someone with sufficient rank to go down and ask them to put together a belt with a certain sequence? Or did it require a request to the Air Ministry or some other board like that?

How much freedom did they have at squadron level with things like belting configurations and convergences? As proffessional pilots did they sit around over cocktails discussing thier belting and having a go the next day?

I assume if they had supply issues of any particular round they'd have to use an alternative sequence, who was responsible and what was the procedure for choosing it?

In the British loadout sections we have a range of unusual rounds like the MKI and MKVI ball ammo. These rounds run about 500fps slower than most of the other rounds on the list. Would you really want to have these rounds in a belt with the H/V rounds? They'ld have completely different ballistics and would throw your convergense right out the window.

They did discuss thier belting and make there crew put in the ammo belt for the next sortie.


~S~

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Red Dragon-DK

where you can make your belt at the type of sorties you are going to fly.

Still think that your not looking at this the right way no one said that a single load out would be enforced, whose to say that the server limits you to one historical loadout i.e. you could have a few historical loadouts from which to choose from and therefore choose the historical one for the type of mission you are planning on going on!!

[robtek]

I believe that the rounds, which were limited then, should be limited on a "full real" server also.

That would be, afaik, the "Hartkern" (Tungsten) and the "Beobachtungsgeschoss" on the german side and the "DeWilde" on the british side.

All other rounds were more or less unlimited available, afaik.

So except for the limited ammo everything should be free chooseable, imo.

[Red Dragon-DK]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Still think that your not looking at this the right way no one said that a single load out would be enforced, whose to say that the server limits you to one historical loadout i.e. you could have a few historical loadouts from which to choose from and therefore choose the historical one for the type of mission you are planning on going on!!

Not to be offensive, but I think im looking at it the right way. But thats subjective, of course
Do this mean, that evrey server have to research in correct historical loadout at all type of sorties /aircraft / time(year) to please some few? Sorry I dont see it happen the right way. I think we will se severs come to some standard ammo belt for dogfight, accuse the server owner to favor one side or some ammo are mission / should not been there. Basig it will never be historical nor realistic that way. We just ask for more troble and accuseing. Do we realy need more of this?

Cut the next demant be that players have correct callnames / correct historical skinns and then force the swastika on? Sorry I did not ment this for serious - I just could not resist. Sorry sorry sorry......... Will newer ever happen again ... promise

Basig is. I simply can not follow the habbit to controll all, which does not even exist in reality. They had options and therefore in my opinion, it should be left as it is.

~S~

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Red Dragon-DK

No matter how it will turn out for sever choice Im VERY pleased to see ATAG is against it and will do full real the historic way, where you can make your belt at the type of sorties you are going to fly. Thanks for that ATAG. Alway a great server to fly on.

Thanks mate!

But I must point out that the opinions I express on this forum are my own, and not necessarily the opinions of ATAG as a group, or any of it's other members!

Cheers!

[Red Dragon-DK]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

Thanks mate!

But I must point out that the opinions I express on this forum are my own, and not necessarily the opinions of ATAG as a group, or any of it's other members!

Cheers!

Rgr that Dutch.

One can only hope they have the same view of the subject. But now we will see. I hope Dev know best and keep continue their development. Perhaps it will be released several functions in the cockpit, such as arm gun correctly use of Magnito and so on in CEM settings.

~S~