The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe.

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

The techniques used by the Nazis were neither new nor have not been employed later on by other nations. In fact, those means are still very much alive and kicking these days. Just look at the US and how Bush manipulated to the public into marching into Iraq.

Hmm..interesting. I can't help noticing the parallels between 9/11 and the Reichstag
fire. Both used the destruction of prominent public buildings to push through legislation subverting their citizens basic constitutional rights.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by arthursmedley

Hmm..interesting. I can't help noticing the parallels between 9/11 and the Reichstag
fire. Both used the destruction of prominent public buildings to push through legislation subverting their citizens basic constitutional rights.

Göring is an eye opener. From an interview in 1946

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Göring is an eye opener. From an interview in 1946

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Did not know that one. Actually, Göring seems to be most likeable Nazi character. He wasn't anti-semitic or dogmatic, a fatalist like Hitler, fanatic like Himmler or a ruthless b@stard like Heidrich, or as naive nationalist like Hess.. he seemed to have a view on things what we call in these parts "sober farmer's intellect', meaning seeing things just as they are. Gilbert comment is extremely naive as well - it may be that only the Congress had the right to declare war, but this didn't quite stop the President from de facto waging a war on the seas on his own initiative from the spring of 1941, or to drive the US into war with any possible means.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Göring seems to be most likeable Nazi character. He wasn't anti-semitic or dogmatic.

Good Grief.

[xnomad]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Good Grief.

I remember seeing something similar about the Nuremberg trials that the captors, prosecutors etc had trouble trying not to get caught up by his (Goering's) charm.

Apparently he was quite a likable person and had a great character. This is also probably the reason he ended up getting cyanide to kill himself, wasn't it the US guard that gave it to him after he became a bit chummy with Hermann?

[csThor]

I, actually, think a statement Göring was heard to utter when he was arrested does characterize him much better: "At least 12 years of decent life." ("Wenigstens 12 Jahre anständig gelebt.")

He was greedy, he was pompous, he was boasting, a coward and absolutley ruthless in pursuing his own ambitions. As such he fit into the shark pool that was Hitler's inner circle.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Haha, while I agree with the sentiment, Goering's position during the Nuremburg trials is quite intellegent and rational. I was surprised thinking I would be reading frothing at the mouth, bombastic statements based off the impressions we've always been fed about the Nazi leaders. His quotes above are more true than what most politicians are willing to admit in public.

I wasn't disputing the man's evident 'charm', more the statement that he 'wasn't anti-semitic or dogmatic'.

Although I saw one documentary about his brother who apparently assisted thousands of Jewish people to flee.

[Kurfürst]

AFAIK Göring wasn't particularly anti semitic, he was pragmatic about not going the party line though.

IIRC there is a story about when Erhard Milch was being put under the magnifying glass for his - allaged - Jewish ancestry. Göring stepped in told Himmler along the lines that 'Dear Heinrich, it is I who decide who is jewish in the Luftwaffe and who is not'. As for dogmatic... I don't know, he strikes me as a rather pragmatic, and opportunistic character, rather than the fanatic nazis like Hess, Hitler or Himmler. Politics probably only interested him as long as it was practical. At least this is my take on him.

Personally, after the war I think many LW commanders simply pointed fingers to the 'fat man' and blamed their own failures on him, much like the infallible Wehrmacht generals did after the war when saying: '...it was all Hitler's fault'. I mean Galland especially. I like Galland a lot a man and a fighter pilot, but I am realistic about that he only tells his side of the story, and there were plenty of people who did not like his leadership, and whom Galland did not like either. But Galland got to wrote his memoir and others did not. IMHO he probably wasn't as good as a staff officer as he was a Gruppe or Geschwader commander. His failure in Italy and the naivity of his 'big blow' plan are striking examples imho, but he always had Fat Hermann as an excuse. IMHO Molders was classes better for that role.

In reality, Göring was interfering very little with the Luftwaffe during the war, he was more of a political connection to the nazi party, rather than a real actor; Milch was the actual man who was behind organisation and such, Göring did little more than preside over GL meetings.