Spitfire IIa in BOB??!???! NO 109 E4 ?!!?!

[Winger]

Why is that. Any explanation devs? I cant really think of a plausible one...

Winger

[janpitor]

E4 will be added in a short time together with the E1. And the IIa was there in a limited number

[fruitbat]

While i agree that the E4 should be in, and even more so the E1 if you look at the actual numbers (for a large proportion of the battle the E1 was the most common type despite what many lufty types want to believe), the Spit MkII took part is reasonable numbers as well (although obviously not as many as the E4).

First delivery, P7282 arrived at 61 squadron on 22 aug, and a total of 195 had been accepted into operational service by the battles traditional October date as the end of BoB.

Tis a mystery why the devs choose the E3 instead of an E1 and an E4 though.

Course its a mystery why we have a two stage prop spit, unless we're talking about Dunkirk (but then no E1 to oppose so....)

Not to mention why the Spit Ia isn't running 100 octane.

All in all, is BoB, without the right planes full stop.

[BlackbusheFlyer]

During the BoB some squadrons got the benefit of the IIa , 611, 66, 92 squadrons received them in August. At the end of the BoB all MkI's were relegated to OTU's and by Winter 1940 all operational spitfires were MKII.

Leutnant Steinhilper (2/JG) talks about the MKIIa in his account of the BoB professing their superiority over their E4's.

[Blackdog_kt]

Currently the Spit Mk.I variants all have the two-stage prop used in the battle of France. The Mk.II has the constant speed prop, so it evens things out.

That being said, when they do add the E4 with the improved cannon shells it would be nice if they also correct the Spitfire discrepancies. The Mk.I represents a BoF era aircraft and the Mk.Ia is supposed to represent the BoB standard with a CSP, but currently while the model displays the correct prop and spinners, the in-game flight model uses a two-stage prop.

At this point most of the FMs need tweaking anyway, so it's more of a naming convention to differentiate between CSP and non-CSP Spits. When the FMs get tuned (developers said that once they finish with the optimizations in frame rates that's their next point of focus, so i'd say in 2-3 patches), all fighters can fly high without engine misfires and the advantages of the Luftwaffe fighters at high altitude become apparent, then it will be a good point to give the Mk.Ia its CSP.

Better yet, we could have CSP and two-stage prop variants for the Mk.I as well (like it currently happens with the hurricane, we have Hurri with DH prop and the same Hurri with a Rotol prop and it's clearly marked that way in the interface). This way we can choose the correct aircraft for each scenario/campaign/online mission and have the ability to recreate BoF as well as BoB.

When all of this is done, then it's up to the mission designers in online servers to limit the amount of the high performance planes to a percentage that's representative of what historically happened, so that the majority of people will be flying Spit Mk.Is and 109E1s and E4s, instead of everybody cruising around in the more rare birds like Spit Mk.IIs and 109s with DB601N engines (if we end up getting an E-7).

[ElAurens]

With all the RAF planes stuck with low octane fuel and incorrect props on the Spits anyway I don't see the reason for the E4 whine. Oh wait, I forgot, it's about the points online.



The E1 should be the first addition to the Luftwaffe anyway for reasons previously stated.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

With all the RAF planes stuck with low octane fuel and incorrect props on the Spits anyway I don't see the reason for the E4 whine. Oh wait, I forgot, it's about the points online.



The E1 should be the first addition to the Luftwaffe anyway for reasons previously stated.

As for current online gaming. flying the 109 against the spit IIa is absolutely pointless since it cand do anything better than the spit. I have had really great fights against rotol hurricanes. Both had advantages. The one that uses the advantages of his plane better is the winner. 109 against Spit IIa there are no chances at all for the 109 pilot but to catch the spit by surprise. And even then if its not utterly damaged it can still just kill the 109. Those are not 2 planes that should fight against each other.

Winger

[VO101_Tom]

I think it the primary thing would be the equalisation of the time line, in which the RAF has a huge benefit currently.

The present most modern luftwaffe fighter with these not armoured cocpit, DB 601 engine and MG-FF weapon enters service in early 1939, in Spanish Civil War* There are not an additional modification or a development on LW fighter.

The first Spitfire Mk II enters in service in Aug 1940. The Germans got the 109 E-7 in the same month. An Bf 109 E-4, DB 601/N engine and a MG-FF/M cannon were received already on the same summer. From E-4 the German airplanes were equipped with Armoured cocpit, automatic prop pitch and automatic water radiator system, and C3 (100 octane) fuel (to /N engine). I mention the most important ones only.

100 octane fuel to Spits? Yes, because RAF used it. No doubt. Constant speed props to all Spits? Yes, yes because RAF used it. DB601/N engines to E-7? No, because LW used it only small numbers? Come on guys, you believe it this correct? No need trick with numbers, only matter: existed, or did not exist (if we ran forward this much already into the time to Spit II).



*"Early in the year (1939) J/88 had recieved 40 new cannon-armed Bf 109 E fighters, and the outdated early marks were passed to Gruppo 5-G-5. On 5 March Mölders's replacement as leader of 3 Staffel." (Osprey Airwar3 - Christopher Shores: Spanish Civil War Air Forces, page 42)

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

*"Early in the year (1939) J/88 had recieved 40 new cannon-armed Bf 109 E fighters, and the outdated early marks were passed to Gruppo 5-G-5. On 5 March Mölders's replacement as leader of 3 Staffel." (Osprey Airwar3 - Christopher Shores: Spanish Civil War Air Forces, page 42)

Lol, JG52 got there first 2, read it 2, cannon armed 109's in mid september 1940.

i can get you a quote for that to.

fact is, majority of BoB was 12llbs spit 1's and hurris with CSP with Spit II's turning up in numbers in sept, v bf109E1's the majority at the start, and E4's by the end, with a smattering of E7's at the end as well.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Lol, JG52 got there first 2, read it 2, cannon armed 109's in mid september 1940.

i can get you a quote for that to.

Please, it would be good if you would grant the source.

Originally Posted by fruitbat

fact is, majority of BoB was 12llbs spit 1's and hurris with CSP with Spit II's turning up in numbers in sept, v bf109E1's the majority at the start, and E4's by the end, with a smattering of E7's at the end as well.

How many planes flew - This is the map makers, mission makers' task. What is important for the dev team: existed or did not exist.