Dot Visibility in COD and Other Flight ims.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by zapatista

its not as simple as that

Being red/green colour blind i find it a bit hard to pickup the icons in this photo (Just to the right of the line extending from the top of the sight?)

I wouldn't mind a different choice of colours for the friendly team!

Cheers!

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

i play at 1920 by 1200 with the aa cranked up to 16xQ, on a samsung 24inch monitor

maybe i can't see dots as well below me, but i never seem to have that much problem seeing them, and for what advantage i loose, i'm more than happy to have the eye candy.

i think i would throw up playing it in 1024x768.

1024X768 looks very good with 4X AA and 8X or higher AF. Plus you get much better FPS with the lower res.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by zapatista

yes and not many people are aware of that


right now the problem is so severe it makes the older sim just about unplayable in a competitive situation, and completely takes the fun out of it in coops and campaigns. i dont believe we can only choose between either the major problem we have had so far, and perfection on the other hand. there is a major grey area in between those 2 extremes, and the pendulum right now needs to shift over to the "realistic spotting and tracking" distances in a big way !!

btw, you didnt answer my earlier question to you

yes! they aren't, they're under impression FoV is a zoom function, where it isn't.

"Dots" has always been a point of contention and even back in the day when only CRT's were about, "dots" were contentious and there was nothing that properly seting up the monitor wouldn't (for the most) fix. Almost as contentious as the difference of between "full real" and "wonder woman"

question not answered?


if you feel the problem is less severe than i have described in the previous post then i suspect

1) you frequently fly in il2 with a FoV setting that artificially zooms in, and use that view to identify, track and locate targets, rather then the "correct FoV setting" for your monitor size.

A FoV, isn't a zoom function, as such, which makes "correct setting for the monitor size" is a bit of a misnomer. I've always run @ default FoV

2) you have a TN based 6 bit color monitor (or older crt) that makes dots stand out more, and you believe everybody on their flat screen monitors is seeing the same

A I've had Sony 15" and 19" crt as well Samsung B204, Samsung 226BW monitors over the years and currently run a Samsung PX2370

[flyingblind]

Originally Posted by zapatista

if the main visibility "faults" mentioned earlier in this thread are corrected, you'd find most people with reasonably normal vision will have no major problems seeing planes at "normal RL visible distances" (since if they wear glasses in real life, they would wear them while using the pc).

also age related vision deterioration (in westerners) tends to affect near vision, less so far vision. so you might have some problems reading the cockpit instruments, but have less problems spotting a me-109 at 1500 meters

one other issue that many il2 users are not fully aware of, is that they need to set their FoV (field of view) settings correctly in the game for their monitor size (and for any given monitor there is only one correct FoV setting therefore). most il2 users will use the smaller FoV settings as a zoom magnifier to scan the ground, or to investigate a blip on the horizon, and this is also a way of "gaming the game" which does not represent "normal vision" (ie it is an artificial enhancement, as no ww2 fighter pilots had a pair of binoculars strapped to their face).

Regarding your comment about vision in the over 50s (me) do you mean in real life or in game because in game you only have to focus on the screen surface. In real life I wear bifocals but playing the game I find reading glasses work best.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

1) you frequently fly in il2 with a FoV setting that artificially zooms in, and use that view to identify, track and locate targets, rather then the "correct FoV setting" for your monitor size.

Are you saying you never use the ingame zoom function?
Wide, normal, gunsight or in between?

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Being red/green colour blind

That would make you a bad as$ spotter in RL - as camouflage doesn't work for your eyes.

They used a friend of miner for this job, he said the green tank in green forest was bright, different colored dot.

[Wolf_Rider]

gunsight is different, that is zoom, but no, never really used it

yes colour vision defects.... even without them, the further away the more the colouring merges together and have to be careful about the "red/ green" colour thing though. It isn't "blind" as such, it is the retention of the colour last seen being overlayed (lagged) on the colour viewed.

(red/ green/ white for the lantern test)

flash up red/ white, then flash up red/ green... red/ white will still be seen (using peripheral vision can get around it depending on how affected the person is)

[vicinity]

Originally Posted by zapatista

one other issue that many il2 users are not fully aware of, is that they need to set their FoV (field of view) settings correctly in the game for their monitor size (and for any given monitor there is only one correct FoV setting therefore). most il2 users will use the smaller FoV settings as a zoom magnifier to scan the ground, or to investigate a blip on the horizon, and this is also a way of "gaming the game" which does not represent "normal vision" (ie it is an artificial enhancement, as no ww2 fighter pilots had a pair of binoculars strapped to their face).

I've been reading through the thread and I agree with a lot of the points you make and appreciate the effort you have gone to explain stuff but I really have to disagree with you there. The 'zoom' function does better represent real vision imo as in reality we can focus in on things that are far away. It isn't really possible to have a high field of vision and have things appear at their real world size in a game on a 2d screen.

If the object itself increases in size as it gets farther away (to try and keep it looking 'normal sized') then in game it would just look like the object isn't getting any farther away. Whether zoom was put into this sim intentionally to solve this problem or not is a different story but zoom at least goes some way to addressing the problems of emmulating vision on a 2d screen.

There was a post on the BI forums about this when someone was complaining about being able to zoom at the click of the mouse in Arma II. One of the developers explain this but i'm having trouble finding the post.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

question not answered?

Originally Posted by zapatista

if you feel the problem is less severe than i have described in the previous post then i suspect
1) you frequently fly in il2 with a FoV setting that artificially zooms in, and use that view to identify, track and locate targets, rather then the "correct FoV setting" for your monitor size.
2) you have a TN based 6 bit color monitor (or older crt) that makes dots stand out more, and you believe everybody on their flat screen monitors is seeing the same

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

A1 FoV, isn't a zoom function, as such, which makes "correct setting for the monitor size" is a bit of a misnomer. I've always run @ default FoV
A2 I've had Sony 15" and 19" crt as well Samsung B204, Samsung 226BW monitors over the years and currently run a Samsung PX2370

wolf,
for answer 1, see my next post. i believe there is even more to this then it just "not being a zoom function" either, but some issues still need to be resolved with this.
for answer 2: both the lcd's you mention are TN technology based panels, and therefore "suffer" from the glitter/dithering problem i illustrated earlier. as a result you probably have more then 50% improved dot/lod spotting/tracking ability them most other users here with "normal" lcd's. as a result you might believe the visibility problem for dot/lod's is much less then what other experience.

[Wolf_Rider]

my only real experience with "dot problems" is that which has been existent since CRT days, the era the sim was designed in. Current LCD technology may exasperbate the situation... and at the end of the day, no current technology will recreate what the eye sees.

The misnomer with adjusting FoV is the "field" is being adjusted with reference to a "window" (window, is screen size/ resolution and FoV being the angle of view) So it doesn't really mater what the selected FoV is, the same window is still being worked with... so what happens is, when a FoV is used it gets that wider view and presents the image on the screen - pushing everything back into the distance without magnification being effected change. Alternativley, when a narrower FoV is selected the image is presented on that same size window but seenimgly bringing everything closer, but without magnification increase. Everything stays relative unlike with zoom (using binoculars for instance).


let's see how 1C have addressed the concerns with CoD.