Don't you feel ripped off as a console gamer?

[Rabin]

I agree that consoles seem to get a raw deal as far as DLC and Editing goes.

One game that was willing to get past this was Farcry2 - it had the same map editor on 360 as on PC, and it still seems to be played today.

I was surpised that we didn't get a mission editor similar to the IL-2:1946 experience. It -is- great fun being able to set up a quick dogfight, or bom,bing run, with a few mouse clicks. I don't know why this wasn't included. It would be very, very easy to do on a console. (Pick a map, choose number of enemies, choose objective type, choose number of friendlies, choose weather/daytime - randomly generate it - go play!)

Computers, after all, are masters of randomly generating stuff from blocks/tiles/databases...

I often (cynically I know) wonder if they limit the content deliberately so they reduce the lifespan of the game and make people buy their next game. IL-2 has survived (even after Ubi/maddox abandoned it) on player generated content/mission editors/etc. and that means nobody at Ubi/Maddox is making any money on it any more...

Like I said - people call me cynical - I see it as realism. :p

[SharpeXB]

I like the XBox just fine for games but have moved on to the PC for one simple reason.
The XBox controller is not programmable. This makes the console effectively useless for anything more than playing the same game over and over unless you want to go through the hardship of learning all the controls again.
Look at IL2 compared to another flying game, Battlestations Pacific.
IL2 your joystick is the left thumb but in BSP it's your right
All the FPS games have similar commands but they're all programmed differently on the controller. It's just maddening.

[Raw Kryptonite]

Battlestations isn't a flight game, it's a strategy game that as a bonus also lets you take direct control.

Do I feel ripped off? Not at all.
There's more involved in bring a console game out, part of which is better quality control than most pc games. Still bugs surely, but a much better experience than pc gaming. With pc gaming you spend a lot more on hardware that I have little use for other than gaming. With console gaming you spend less on hardware but more on games. But then there are used games and gamefly, so it's not like I pay $50-60 very often.

Keep in mind some of us game on both, it isn't necessary to be a "pc gamer" or "console gamer".

[phlux]

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite

Battlestations isn't a flight game, it's a strategy game that as a bonus also lets you take direct control.

Do I feel ripped off? Not at all.
There's more involved in bring a console game out, part of which is better quality control than most pc games. Still bugs surely, but a much better experience than pc gaming. With pc gaming you spend a lot more on hardware that I have little use for other than gaming. With console gaming you spend less on hardware but more on games. But then there are used games and gamefly, so it's not like I pay $50-60 very often.

Keep in mind some of us game on both, it isn't necessary to be a "pc gamer" or "console gamer".

Well said Raw, saved me quite a few keystrokes

BTW, we still down for strike tonight? [/threadjack]

[Raw Kryptonite]

Originally Posted by phlux

Well said Raw, saved me quite a few keystrokes

BTW, we still down for strike tonight? [/threadjack]

I'd like to, I should be on. If there are no rooms going I'll crank one up. Having a lot of fun with this P-47.

[phlux]

Sounds good Raw.

Ok, I usually keep my mouth shut (as you can tell from my post count), but now I feel compelled to say something.

To the OP and Ace Rimmer, you guys had your intelligence insulted by this title; we get it, but please don’t characterize everyone on this board as “the console crowd”. I spend quite a lot of time flying Falcon 4.0AF on the PC, would you consider that a proper sim? It is quite possible to enjoy both. There are a lot of flight sim fans and enthusiasts of aviation in general around here. I’ve learned a lot of history from several knowledgeable posters on this board and enjoyed reading several lively discussions of the intricacies of military aviation past and present.

I’m not exactly sure what you two expected from BoP. I got exactly what I expected, a console game that takes flying a helluvalot more seriously than anything else that’s been available for me to play on my couch in front of my LCD TV after a long day (sometimes I just don’t feel like dragging out my HOTAS and sitting stiff in front of my PC for hours). The environments are beautiful, the planes look fantastic, and not since Over G has there been a console game with better, more diverse flight models. Additionally, there are only so many controls you can map to a controller/flight stick, so a great job by the Devs modeling all that they did IMHO.

Furthermore I’m not entirely sure what the OP’s reason was in posting this novel here, other than to come off as sort of elitist, too smart for a dumbed down PC port. Using the words “ripped off” in the post title wasn’t the best way to start. Perhaps “disappointed” would have been a better word. Just as it’s not nice for console players to be broad stroked as too attention deprived to grasp a proper flight sim, it’s not nice for PC simulation players to be colored as too intelligent and haughty to be bothered by something that is very enjoyable but just not quite as labor intensive as something on the PC. You managed to do both in one post, and honestly sir, it makes no difference where you work. Your employment doesn't determine who you are, and bears no relevance to the conversation, when you come in the kitchen rattling the pots and pans you're going to get a reaction. Then again that was your goal I assume.

Do I feel disappointed? Absolutely not! Love the game

Rant over, carry on.

[Soulsurfer]

I agree with the OP but I knew the score before I bought my 360 so it's all good. I don't feel let down with BOP though, in fact it's a lot better than I was expecting it to be. Sure it's nowhere near as good as IL2 on the PC but it's still very good none the less. I still prefer gaming on the PC over the console though despite being confined to a 19" monitor I only bought my 360 so I could play online with my real world friends who aren't into PC gaming. The kids love it too

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite

Battlestations isn't a flight game, it's a strategy game that as a bonus also lets you take direct control.

Do I feel ripped off? Not at all.
There's more involved in bring a console game out, part of which is better quality control than most pc games. Still bugs surely, but a much better experience than pc gaming. With pc gaming you spend a lot more on hardware that I have little use for other than gaming. With console gaming you spend less on hardware but more on games. But then there are used games and gamefly, so it's not like I pay $50-60 very often.

Keep in mind some of us game on both, it isn't necessary to be a "pc gamer" or "console gamer".

So, there's more involved in releasing one third of a combat flight sim game on a console to, say, ARMAII?

So basically, we're enjoying better visuals but going vastly backwards as content goes.

Better Quality Control??? BOP???? Umm, very confused as this surely has to be one of the top 3 biggest bugbears of the title, unless ofcourse you refer to the console as a whole in which case I would agree!!!

[Raw Kryptonite]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

So, there's more involved in releasing one third of a combat flight sim game on a console to, say, ARMAII?

So basically, we're enjoying better visuals but going vastly backwards as content goes.

Better Quality Control??? BOP???? Umm, very confused as this surely has to be one of the top 3 biggest bugbears of the title, unless ofcourse you refer to the console as a whole in which case I would agree!!!

ArmA2? I guess there is more involved since they have yet to find a publisher that thinks they can pull it off.
At least ArmA2 doesn't suffer from any bugs though, like you pointed out.


The patch 1.03 will solve and improve/balance the following in-game issues:
Major

• AI tweaking and balancing (especially AI infantry aural detection sensitivity lowered significantly)
• Improved multiplayer and cooperative campaign (saving games, connection issues)
• Numerous fixes and improvements in the Harvest Red campaign

Engine:

• New: Functions getPosATL and setPosATL to allow controlling position relative to terrain.
• New: command line option -showScriptErrors introduced to show errors in scripts on-screen
• New: Direct analogue throttle and brake for airplanes now available.
• New: More flexible configuration of Flares in the config (brightness, size)
• New: Mission name (with * indicated unsaved work) displayed in the mission editor
• New: Keyboard shortcuts in the mission editor
• Improved: Better airplane HUD visibility both night and day
• Optimization: Reduced frame stutter near map borders.
• Fixed: Rainbow could be visible even with sun below horizon.
• Fixed: 3D Editor - civilian and resistance units did not work correctly
• Fixed: Sea surface was not rendered in NE area out of map.
• Fixed: Terrain surface was sometimes using wrong parallax map.
• Fixed: Grenade could sometimes destroy a building just by impact
• Fixed: Radio messages sometimes echoed
• Fixed: Team switch did not work when player died
• Fixed: Reduced AI detecting slowly moving enemy vehicles by ear.
• Fixed: Prevent killed AI units reporting who killed them.
• Fixed: After respawn in MP, player's tasks, diary content and skills are transferred to the new entity
• Fixed: Leaning 'limits' did not work with TrackIR
• Fixed: MP client frozen in Receiving... screen sometimes
• Fixed: Problems with saving and loading games in cooperative campaign

Missions:

• Fixes and improvements in most of the campaign missions (Into the Storm, Harvest Red, Bitter Chill, Manhattan, Badlands, Dogs of War)
• Improved: autosave logic to not save when it was not safe
• Improved: Eye for an Eye in Scenarios

Data:

• Fixed: various minor problems on buildings
• Fixed: rocks destruction effect changed
• Fixed: penetrability of some vegetation
• Fixed: collision geometry of A_BuildingWIP
• Fixed: react FSM core conversations
• Fixed: cargo animations in LAV25
• Fixed: indicators in Ka52 when using NVG
• Fixed: cargo animations in BTR
• Fixed: Warfare keypoint on Chernarus

The patch 1.04 will mainly solve and improve/balance the following in-game issues:
Major

• Mouse controls: Improved mouse handling and responsivness
• Stability: Fixed CTD caused by Voice Over Net when many players were speaking simultaneously and other stability problems
• Sound: Fixed speed of sound simulation and other improvements
• Multiplayer: fixed scoring, multiple mission parameters added and various other MP-related improvements

Engine:

• New: Added mouse smoothing to game options.
• New: Enabled multiple parameters for MP missions.
• New: Mouse filtering strenght adjustable using mouseSmoothing=NNNN in user config.
• New: Command line argument -cpuCount=NNN to override cpu count detection.
• Improved: Mouse smoothing disabled for fast movement.
• Improved: Mouse smoothing can be disabled in user profile file using line mouseSmoothing=0;
• Improved: Audio volume settings.
• Fixed: Soldier were walking on non-existant heaps of debris from destroyed buildings.
• Fixed: Autocoordination caused rudder oscillation in high speed flight.
• Fixed: Crashes in VoN when many players were speaking simultaneously.
• Fixed: Immortal freezed soldiers occured in MP.
• Fixed: Broken kill scoring in MP (two points for unit kill).
• Fixed: Input key actions are no longer active while chat mode.
• Fixed: Diag_log used with long text argument caused crash.
• Fixed: Mouse scrolling in diary.
• Fixed: Enemy kills made by player using stolen enemy vehicle are no longer considered as friendly kills.
• Fixed: Switching to Utes from Chernarus caused Utes to contain infinite landscape.
• Fixed: Time of day synchronized on client after connection to server.
• Fixed: Speed of sound simulation.
• Fixed: Fire from rifle distort sound.
• Fixed: Crash by malformed input to a diag_log scripting function.
• Fixed: Dark muzzle flash in some of the weapon optics.
• Fixed: MP: Ships and boats used excessive bandwidth and CPU power.
• Fixed: Players are no longer forced to reconnect after MP Load on server.
• Fixed: Bike rider can be no longer healed.
• Fixed: Sometimes crew of a near vehicle was visible through the vehicle.

Missions:

• Improved: Communication menu updated to work with the new menu systems.
• Fixed: Some persistent RE calls added for better JIP compatibility in campaign.
• Fixed: Music was sometimes not playing properly due to faulty playMusic RE command call.
• Fixed: Scene area cleared from exploding destroyed vehicles during various scenes.
• Fixed: Possible appearance of immortal non-player characters in campaign.
• Fixed: (First to Fight) MP: Logos shown on client every time after JIP.
• Fixed: (First to Fight) MP: Skeet shooting not working for clients after JIP.
• Fixed: (First to Fight) Players not boarded in the chopper if they got in the towing tractor.
• Fixed: (Into the Storm) MP: Bad position of client players during converation.
• Fixed: (Into the Storm) Some voice-subtitles difference in the first dialog.
• Fixed: (Into the Storm) MP: No callsign for HQ entity on clients.
• Fixed: (One Week Later) MP: Clients not sitting on bikes after leaving the AAV.
• Fixed: (One Week Later) MP: Player is no longer the co-pilot in the Osprey.
• Fixed: (Manhattan) Escort chopper often shot down.
• Fixed: (Manhattan) Palyer stuck in the animation after first scene.
• Fixed: (Badlands) Prizrak no longer initiates conversation if Cooper is in a vehicle.
• Fixed: (Badlands) Non-fucntional ending in campaign scenario.
• Fixed: (Missing in Action) Redundant random sentences from Razor.

Modules:

• Improved: Ambient Civilians module caused lag in MP due to window lights.
• Fixed: Undefined variables in Ambient Civilians module.
• Fixed: High Command could behave strange when someone added his own display event handler.
• Fixed: Wrong positions of objects/logics.
• Fixed: Performance problems related to Animals module in MP.

Data:

• Improved: Some of the vehicle HUDs now contain missing info.
• Fixed: Alignment issues on several wrapper UI screens.

Enjoy!

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite

ArmA2? I guess there is more involved since they have yet to find a publisher that thinks they can pull it off.
At least ArmA2 doesn't suffer from any bugs though, like you pointed out.


Enjoy!

HMMM!!! You completely misread me but no matter, my mistake. I was referring to BoP on PS3/360 to ARMA2 on PC as I have only just realised through your sarcasm that they are planning on releasing it for console!!!


Re: Houndstone Hawk ....."So, there's more involved in releasing one third of a combat flight sim game on a console to, say, ARMAII?

So basically, we're enjoying better visuals but going vastly backwards as content goes."


And when in my post (copied above) did I point out or even hint on ARMA2 having or not having bugs!!! Surely most folk would read into that as technically comparing 2 titles from different platforms. It's a cheap trick indeed, throwing words into ppl's mouth RK & then backing it up with a page of copied material of no relevence to the subject that only serves to make you look a bit ....well, foolish really !!!