Ethics of pilots fighting for the sides in WWII

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Shark, that's too direct and too vehement. Not wrong, just....harsh.

Actually, it was both.

In fairness, I think a lot of Europeans appreciate the US as allies just as we appreciate them.

They do. But people here criticise the British government for sending our troops to war to 'police the world', not just yours.

Europeans didn't have a 9/11 and have no idea how "personal" our war on terror is to most of us. Many are "with us" but can't appreciate the depth of the hurt and anger....I guess we can't expect them to. It is hard for them to comprehend what 9+ years of foiled attacks here are worth to us.

What are you talking about? Britain has had a lot more than 9 years of terrorist attacks - more than the 39 years I've been here. But the IRA that were blowing up parts of Britain for decades seemed to get less funding from the US after 9/11. Every cloud.

They say we torture and thus are evil. Most have no idea that three terrorists have been waterboarded and that those interrogations account for more than 50% of our information on Al Qaeda.

What utter nonsense. Firstly, these 3 alleged 'terrorists': One has never been charged with a crime, the second was charged but had the charges dropped, and the third has been charged but has not been found guilty. And like my country, you're innocent until proven guilty right? And 50% of your information? Again that is utter nonsense. If waterboarding was legal, and proving so successful in preventing terrorist attacks, why on earth did the US only waterboard 3 people - that would be daft. The fact is that people under torture will admit to anything and say anything to make it stop. As someone that's gone through it you must know that the other ways you gather information is much more successful.

As for the practice itself, I have gone through it and it's terrible but has no lasting effects.

Firstly, that doesn't mean it's not torture, and secondly, you haven't gone through the same thing unless you were a prisoner, because someone like a CIA member saying 'yep, I'm ready for it, lets see how I do' knows that they're not going to die, and that if something did go wrong they'd have the best medical care to save them. That's different to someone that's been a prisoner for years, without the human rights to see a lawyer, who's been told that no one knows they even exist and no one will know if they die today. Re "They say we torture and thus are evil." You don't like others making sweeping accusations about the US, but you're happy to make those sweeping accusations about others. I don't think the US are evil, far from it. But I do think that when you appoint yourself as world police, you need to get your shop in order and stand up to scrutiny. And it seems your president agrees with me. Do you realise how easy you make it for fundamentalist to recruit when you condone torture yourselves?

It's hard people outside of the US to understand we are fighting a group of radicals who would kill us all "over there" rather than "over here".

So you think we don't understand? How can you be so insular, we're fighting the same people as you.

Anyway, Shark, I am sure you will get blasted for your comments. I probably will too. That's sad but....does it really matter?

You feel so hard done by, the US being criticised all the time. I didn't even see Dietger criticising the US (maybe he did, but I didn't see it). But I'm picking you up on your comments not because it's about the US, and not because I have any ill feelings towards the US, but because your comments are nonsense.

Originally Posted by Theshark888

Sure, the governments in power aprreciate us (I'm not sure about the "man on the street") but also use us as the "punching bag" to deflect from their own problems. This goes on all the time in the Euro media and the masses fall for it.

So you feel unappreciated by your Euro allies. You clearly don't know what the people over here think. The British media (I can't speak for the rest of Europe) are very critical of both Britain and the US going to war without any clear goal or reason, you're not picked on over here. Elements of the US media are also pretty critical of some of your country's actions.

Sometimes the present generations of Euro's need to be reminded of their own history before they obsess with ours.

Where do your ancestors come from? Do you really think that the rest of world is bad, and that the US are the only good people, constantly helping everyone out but not getting thanked for it? As Ed Rooney would say, wake up and smell the coffee.