Now see what moding does for a game and company!

[whoarmongar]

There is a big difference between hacks and mods, hacks ruin a game, the thought that people are cheating online by hacking a game just kills the server and ultimatly kills the game online.

Mods however help the long term viability of a game by adding extra content and taking a game in directions the developers never explored or envisioned,and very often these mods are taken up and used in later patches by the devs.

Arma2 is a good example, moders gave us things that were ultimatly patched into later versions of the official game and now the latest mod dayz has led to new copies of arma2 being sold, this just before the release of arma3 ! This must be a nice little earner for Bohemia and totally unexpected.

Other games to are staying popular long after they have passed there sell by date simply because people want to play the modded versions ie Rome total war.

Going back to Arma2, this is heavily modded but thanks to modders making tools like sixupdater its easy to manage the various mods available and to be honest I have seen very few cheaters, although I play mostly coop and cheating in coop generally doesnt happen.

I think modding is the core of pc gaming it keeps games fresh and players involved for a very long time.
If you want to play vanilla games thats fine but you probably would be happier sticking to an xbox or playstation.

[trashcanman]

Originally Posted by _1SMV_Gitano

My point is that there is no prejudice about new content from anyone. ....

..... P-47 cockpit rework may come in future, as already stated in another thread, but there is no timeline, and no need for conspiration theories.

I have sent sent detailed information to TD 3 times showing blueprints and photographic proof that the P-47 razorback gunsight mount was the same as the bubble top. I have never even had a reply!

The Fw190 bar was removed by TD based on what evidence? Refraction?

It's a funny old business isn't it?

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

At least you got no negative answer. We don't need any evidence to know, that many cockpits in game has their mistakes and flaws - including the P-47. We cannot care for everything at once. Have some patience!

Sorry for not answering specificly your emails - we have far over an half thousand emails in our inbox - most of them we just can recognise, read and use for references. Its not for chatting.

Yes, Fw190 rework was based on refraction. The bar was not removed. It was moved a few inches down, so that it didn't obscure the gunsight anymore.

[Bearcat]

Just to clarify something.. When I mention mods incorporated into the stock sim by TD I mean mod features.. because I dont know what is what when it comes to the code... All I know is that there are a lot of features that were suggested/requested by myself and others over the years that appeared first in ORR .. and then in the GD .. to no avail. Later many of these things began showing up in mods.. from bi directional radiator on an axis, to bi directional map zoom, 6DoF, multi axis support, a more detailed QMB, more slots in the QMB etc.. and now many of these features are in the stock sim. Which to me is great.. and I'd like to see more of that where possible.. I'd like to see some way of addressing default skins implemented in the stock sim.. I'd like to see a few more maps and AC implemented into the stock sim.... I do not know, nor do I care for that matter how many former mods were taken into the sim.. or whether or not the code was reworked totally by TD and just the features were added or if they used the same code .. As far as I am concerned no modder has a "right" to "their" mod anyway.. or to put it another way .. they have just as much right to "their" mod as far as intellectual property goes, as they have given to 1C in terms of using and altering the code... If someone takes my car and hot rods it without my permission .. it is still my car and should I chose to have someone else drive it and hot rod it .. for me that is my prerogative ... this is what 1C has done with TD from my perspective.. I am in no position to cast moral aspersions or claims of legality on modders in this issue .. I just know what I like and I like what TD is doing and I hope that they continue to try to find ways to incorporate many more features that were revealed first as mods into the stock sim. WE IL2 simmers have been asking for some of this stuff since day one.. if ORR were still here you could go back and see literally dozens of things .. heck even FB & PF and everything after it started out as requests in ORR.. Anybody remember all the requests for Cats and Zekes and Mustangs and carriers in ORR back in 2002 and before?

So Rock on TD... I have said this often.. but it bears repeating.. IMO it is a testament to this community and the robust nature of Oleg's code that this sim is still here thriving today over a decade after it's initial launch and has not gone the route of so many other products where competition, ego and skill or the lack thereof all congeal to make a recipie for disaster and the demise of an otherwise decent product.

[Ibis]

Agree 100% Bearcat, if it's possible for TD to improve the sim by implimenting some of the mod effects then why not? It can only be a positive for the game.
cheers,
Ibis.

[norulz]

coincidence versus consequence

Il-2 online was slowly dying... after gazilion of Bellum War clones people were slowly getting bored with the limited/old style online life IL-2 had.

Coincidentally, Il-2 got hacked... and people got new content... debatable quality wise but new. Quality meant nothing at first... like wen you play a game and you find out about a little "easter egg" in it and although the easter egg does not even compare with the full game in content and quality you play it and over play it sometimes just for the novelty it has.

Coincidentally, Il-2 creators didn't see too far into this "modding possibilities"... or got scared of the downsides of it and freaked out in non sense arguments... the cheating fest and precious illusive rights and lefts.

Then... as a consequence of modding becoming rampant... quality emerged... order out of chaos.
Big, heavy mods started to appear. I won't name any cause I don't want to be biased but is clear I am not referring to "franken-planes of the first moding era" or "this sounds better on my PC mods" or here's my "2048x2048 oil temperature gauge texture mod".

Then... parties started to emerge... AAA, SAS, UP, HSX, TD...

What really can destroy Il-2 eventually for good is this parties evolving towards complete opposition and against each other working. And not even this alone... This and another game... not... BoB SoW CloD fiasco.

This is for me the saddest part and what made me stop playing IL-2 in the little time free I had for it. Wanting content from SAS, UP, HSX, TD but having to watch how "official modders" eat their livers with the "unofficial modders" (more or less in the open) and working against each other.

Too much pride... That killed it for me. (As it killed it for Oleg, imho)

P.S. This post is just a point of view... could be good or bad or nothing... don't grow a head ache over it.

[mkubani]

@Norulz, while you have summarized the history of IL-2 evolution pretty well, I believe you fail to understand the way TD works and its limitations. It has nothing to do with pride or fighting against anyone. We have agreed to respect some legal, technical, content limitations which 1C was requiring. It has been stated by TD from the very beginning and repeated many times since then. On the other hand, IL-2 modding community will never accept any "boundries". They will do whatever they want and however they want to do it. And it is then impossible to find a common language under such circumstances.

[JtD]

Well, they don't have to accept boundaries, and can do whatever they want. Doesn't mean it's always done like that. The fact that the last patches also included 3rd party work kind of shows that some common ground can be found, so it's not all bad.

[pupo162]

well more than mods, whats killign it is modpack wars. i siriusly just lost the patience to keep the maintenence on the 2 or 3 modpacks that exist. before formating i had 250 gigabites of data in my pc 120 were in il2 -.-

not anymore. only have my 4.11 now.

[norulz]

Originally Posted by mkubani

... And it is then impossible to find a common language under such circumstances.

I agree that my point of view could be (a lot) less informed than yours mkubani thus I may fail to understand the inner works inside TD team but... The part of your post I preserve in my quote could be a reason of why it seems things between those two parties are going in opposite directions.

Imagine one task of the two sides would be to mandatory find a common language no matter the limitations. At first glance you may have bad feelings about the idea... but what if?

What if some of the delay in releasing official patches or modpacks would be motivated with:

"we still have problems in finding a common ground with the other side in some/this aspect"

?

I'm sure at first it will look as the job will never be done... IMHO this happens because everybody is thinking at using the easy "maneuver" of closing the door and forget about it. Thus a solution to this "task" seems impossible because it's hard, but not really impossible.

So... what would such a task would imply for the two sides? What everyone would have to give in? What could be changed in the initial positions? what has been changed till now?

Sorry for a bit long post.