Spit IIa is now so much more inferior to the 109

[FS~Phat]

Ive had quite a few hours in the new patch and noticed the optimum turning speed is pretty realistic in both of the Spits.

Its about 270Km/h for maximum corner angle, if you can get the 109 to drop his speed below this low enough and the advantage clearly goes to the spit IIA down to a point but if he maintains his speed, even though you might be pulling harder and slower, he will turn faster, quite a bit faster if there's a big differential in speed!

If the 109 pilot isnt just yanking on the stick and maintains his speed he will get you if you dont maintain 270km/h

If I remember correctly the corner speed of the early 109 E3 is slightly higher by 10Km/h.
Edit... yep just checked..

If your doing say 200Km/h and he maintains 235Km/h he has the turn advantage by 2 secs which is enough to get off a snap shot from the cannon!

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

Spitfire MK II had the most accurate performacne (speed, climb) but it is only modeled for 87 octan fuel - + 9lbs when should be modeled at 100 Octan fuel and +12 lbs emergency.

Spitfire Mark II was not cleared for +12 lbs boost during the Battle of Britain, apart for takeoff. For combat flying at all but the lowest altitudes, +9 lbs was allowed, with 100 octane fuel.

So the current +9 lbs performance is correct, regardless of fuel type.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Spitfire Mark II was not cleared for +12 lbs boost during the Battle of Britain, apart for takeoff. For combat flying at all but the lowest altitudes, +9 lbs was allowed, with 100 octane fuel.

So the current +9 lbs performance is correct, regardless of fuel type.

Hey Kurfürst quick question obviously you have a lot of knowledge on the 109, so my question is if the spits get the 100 octane fuel do you believe we should get the Me 109 E4/N and C-2 fuel?

[David198502]

all i can say to that topic....we are still far from accurate flight models on both sides....the 109 is still too slow, and the prop pitch de- increases too slow as well.

the spitsIa are too slow as well...and yeah all planes above 6k are crap right now with this engine.
after the patch, i imediately went online, and have flown a couple of sorties, and i was of the impression, that the spits suddenly werent able to outturn me anymore.im a 109driver...
but this was only,because the pilots i outturned, made obviously many mistakes during their turns.i think since the beta patch, using rudder correctly has more impact on airspeed now, than it had before the patch.if you dont use it correctly, you will lose speed more quickly.
so my first few fights after the patch, were really easy for me.i had a bit alt advantage,dived on them,went into a tight turn,and shot em down during the first 180degrees.if i missed, i relaxed the pressure on the stick,and climbed again to come back again.but those poor pilots just continued to turn horizontal.so it was really easy to maintain energy advantage.
then i had some fights with obviously good pilots, where i really had to struggle to keep the upper hand.
but the interesting part is, that all the easy kills were spitIIa's.i think the problem now is, that red pilots who used to fly the spitIIa, arent used to focuse on maintaining energy yet.before the patch, it was really hard even against a average pilot in a spitIIa, but now, things are more even.
during the last year, i had all kind of fights against spits.some were really easy, and one could tell after a few seconds, that the pilot isnt going to be a thread.
and then there were fights, if the pilot had skills, where i really had to struggle, and had to fly disciplined, only boom and zoom tactics.as soon as i went into a turn,the spit gained on me.

so against good pilots, a 109 is not at all far superior.it has its advantages and disadvantages.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

I think guys like you split people for red or blue ones and i understand that you never will be objective like every fanboy of his toy. Such people only make not nessesery mess here.

Im glad that i like to fly all these birds no metter of side. But im know that im in huge minoriy.

Sure i will be happy with E-4/N too even it was very rare plane in BOB and it doesnt change too much in low level speed for 109 but mostly at higher alts if you know

That's a very unfortunate post of you Kwiatek as you completely misunderstood my interventions. I never plead for unrealistic FM, I just reported my direct experience on the new FMs of both planes. Btw I support the request for the 100 octane / 12 lbs boost, and I voted for that in the bug tracker. Call it fanboyism ... bah!!!

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Spitfire Mark II was not cleared for +12 lbs boost during the Battle of Britain, apart for takeoff. For combat flying at all but the lowest altitudes, +9 lbs was allowed, with 100 octane fuel.

So the current +9 lbs performance is correct, regardless of fuel type.

Not exacly correct beacuse there is not possible to apply +12 lbs in Clod SPit II even only at take off up to 1000 ft (300m) or 3 minutes rating like manual clamied. So still not accurate even for 100 Octan fuel modeling.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Hey Kurfürst quick question obviously you have a lot of knowledge on the 109, so my question is if the spits get the 100 octane fuel do you believe we should get the Me 109 E4/N and C-2 fuel?

Hi Krupi,


The E-4/N was present in the Battle in similar small numbers with units as the Mark II Spitfire, so if there's a Spitfire II, I think there should be an E-4/N too.

I've collected the evidence here, where you can turn the devs attention to it too by voting:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200

IMHO the devs should model an E-7/N, which would be re-usable for any 1941 scenario, like North Africa or the Moscow map. Performance wise its identical anyway to the E-4/N.

However I am far more concerned about the 110s lacking 100 octane fuel, when about half of their were using it since the start of the Battle, so its just outright silly that we do not have them. Its like not having Hurricanes or something.

Even more importantly, 100 octane and the DB 601N engine associated with it gave a huge boost to 110 performance, the normal DB 601A variant with 87 octane fuel had a max. speed of around 520 km/h, as fast as the Hurricane, but the one with 100 octane and DB 601N should do around 550 km/h practically as fast as Spits. It would really make the 110 an interesting alternative to fly as a fighter.

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by Insuber

That's a very unfortunate post of you Kwiatek as you completely misunderstood my interventions. I never plead for unrealistic FM, I just reported my direct experience on the new FMs of both planes. Btw I support the request for the 100 octane / 12 lbs boost, and I voted for that in the bug tracker. Call it fanboyism ... bah!!!

It wasnt for your post but someone like JG52Krupi

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

It wasnt for your post but someone like JG52Krupi

I am after realistic FM's.

I have no agenda here I am unbiased.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Hi Krupi,


The E-4/N was present in the Battle in similar small numbers with units as the Mark II Spitfire, so if there's a Spitfire II, I think there should be an E-4/N too.

I've collected the evidence here, where you can turn the devs attention to it too by voting:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200

IMHO the devs should model an E-7/N, which would be re-usable for any 1941 scenario, like North Africa or the Moscow map. Performance wise its identical anyway to the E-4/N.

However I am far more concerned about the 110s lacking 100 octane fuel, when about half of their were using it since the start of the Battle, so its just outright silly that we do not have them. Its like not having Hurricanes or something.

Even more importantly, 100 octane and the DB 601N engine associated with it gave a huge boost to 110 performance, the normal DB 601A variant with 87 octane fuel had a max. speed of around 520 km/h, as fast as the Hurricane, but the one with 100 octane and DB 601N should do around 550 km/h practically as fast as Spits. It would really make the 110 an interesting alternative to fly as a fighter.

That's interesting I had the same remark few days ago: the Bf-110 C-7 with the DB601N is too slow in game, as it does only 420-430 km/h at s.l. against some 550 km/h I've found in the net. Kwiatek provided some tables, RL for C-1 / C-3 and interpolated for other types, but IMO the interpolation wasn't good. I believe that the 110 C-7 speed must be revised by the devs.

Cheers!