How to properly use prop pitch in IL-2 Cliffs of Dover

[SIDWULF]

I notice in IL-2 Cliffs of Dover the prop pitch settings have a noticeble effect on speed. Now in IL-2 1946 I never used prop pitch because from what i know %100 prop pitch was the best setting for all situations except for diving (even then i never used it because engine damage from over reving was non-exsistant). I never touched prop pitch at all untill i noticed that in COD lowering the prop pitch in the 109 ment greater speed.

This is confusing as i now have to constantly monitor my prop pitch settings.

What i want to know is what is the ideal prop pitch setting for combat, climbing, and diving.

Please list them by % so i can set a key for them, I hate fiddling with settings all the time and would just like to set a key for climb/combat/diving.

And could someone explain to me how prop pitch works and why am i getting faster speed at lower settings?

And why is IL-2 1946 not modeling this?

Thanks! I am very experienced with IL-2 1946 but for the reasons mentioned never knew much about prop pitch.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by SIDWULF

What i want to know is what is the ideal prop pitch setting for combat, climbing, and diving.

There isn't one single ideal setting.

Please list them by % so i can set a key for them, I hate fiddling with settings all the time and would just like to set a key for climb/combat/diving.

Forgive my bluntness but thinking of prop pitch in terms of % is looking at it the wrong way. Read below for explanation.

And could someone explain to me how prop pitch works and why am i getting faster speed at lower settings?

In the Bf 109E-3 for example, you have what's called a variable pitch propeller. That means you can adjust the blade angle, and the prop stays at that angle no matter what you do with the throttle. By comparison the Hurricane with the Rotol prop has a Constant Speed Propeller. What this means is that instead of selecting a particular blade angle, you're selecting an engine RPM that you want. Then when you play with the throttle, the prop governor tries its best to maintain that engine RPM. That leads us into the best way to visualize prop pitch.

Yes, pitch is the angle at which the blades bite into the air. But this isn't a helpful way to think of it, and neither is the analogy to shifting gears in your car.

In my humble opinion, the best way to think of prop pitch is in terms of engine RPM. Forget the blade angle and forget the percentage. Every engine has a range of RPMs where it works best. For the 109 this is about 2200-2400 RPM. So what you should always be doing is keeping your engine RPM in that range, by fiddling with the prop pitch.

You'll notice as you climb, your RPMs will go down. Time to raise them by going to a finer pitch setting.

In a dive your RPMs will rise dramatically. Time to lower them by coarsening your pitch.

And why is IL-2 1946 not modeling this?

It does model this, but most aircraft functioned like CSPs, not VPPs.

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

I always felt that 1946 modelled the prop pitch as an engine governor. It doesn't really effect speed or acceleration, just limits the max rpm the engine can achieve.

frustrating. i can see how someone would believe that clod has way better prop pitch control than 46 if they thought that. maybe a good enough reason for some to stop playing 46 and play clod. but you would be completely wrong.

109 - use manual prop pitch 0% to move the rpm/pitch clock down (5% of the time)
- use manual prop pitch 100% to move the rpm/pitch clock up (5% of the time)
- use auto prop pitch as the default (90% of the time)
- always adjust your throttle to keep in the power band (100% of the time)

Example g10, (power band ~ 2500 to 3000)i will use axis values instead of ata and clock angles to make it understandable.

power dive
your cruising along in level flight at 70% throttle with auto prop pitch engaged around 400 kph. Close the rad, engage the mw50, run the throttle to 110% and push the nose down. When the rpms max out to 3000 rpm, toggle off the auto prop pitch to manual engage 0% prop pitch...wait until the rpms fall to say 2500 rpm, reduce the throttle back to 70% or whatever to control the rpms and disengage the mw50. now you are hauling ass, plane probably shaking, and running cool. you got to that speed as fast as possible and didn't let the auto-prop pitch hold you back by converting those excess rpms your sitting on at 3000 rpm to kinetic energy and acceleration. Similar logic applies to zoom climb.

your not supposed to leave the mw 50 on all the time and just open the rads to cool. your not supposed to leave auto prop pitch on all the time. your not supposed to fly around at 100% prop pitch all the time in csp. this is how rookies fly 46. no wonder they like clod so much. they never "got" 46. have fun in clod.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

frustrating. i can see how someone would believe that clod has way better prop pitch control than 46 if they thought that. maybe a good enough reason for some to stop playing 46 and play clod. but you would be completely wrong.

109 - use manual prop pitch 0% to move the rpm/pitch clock down (5% of the time)
- use manual prop pitch 100% to move the rpm/pitch clock up (5% of the time)
- use auto prop pitch as the default (90% of the time)
- always adjust your throttle to keep in the power band (100% of the time)

Example g10, (power band ~ 2500 to 3000)i will use axis values instead of ata and clock angles to make it understandable.

power dive
your cruising along in level flight at 70% throttle with auto prop pitch engaged around 400 kph. Close the rad, engage the mw50, run the throttle to 110% and push the nose down. When the rpms max out to 3000 rpm, toggle off the auto prop pitch to manual engage 0% prop pitch...wait until the rpms fall to say 2500 rpm, reduce the throttle back to 70% or whatever to control the rpms and disengage the mw50. now you are hauling ass, plane probably shaking, and running cool. you got to that speed as fast as possible and didn't let the auto-prop pitch hold you back by converting those excess rpms your sitting on at 3000 rpm to kinetic energy and acceleration. Similar logic applies to zoom climb.

your not supposed to leave the mw 50 on all the time and just open the rads to cool. your not supposed to leave auto prop pitch on all the time. your not supposed to fly around at 100% prop pitch all the time in csp. this is how rookies fly 46. no wonder they like clod so much. they never "got" 46. have fun in clod.

The 109 is different than most other aircraft. Try it in the 190 and it functions as a CSP not a VPP

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

The 109 is different than most other aircraft. Try it in the 190 and it functions as a CSP not a VPP

Agree. I still think it is worth over-riding the auto pitch control for 190 a's and d's and the Ta. You probably won't notice the benefit as much though as the 109. Kwaitek would probably tell me I'm wrong about the 190s. That the manual pitch control won't make a difference or too small to worry about. So, just my opinion here on that. Try it in late war spit. It becomes a totally different plane.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

Agree. I still think it is worth over-riding the auto pitch control for 190 a's and d's and the Ta. You probably won't notice the benefit as much though as the 109. Kwaitek would probably tell me I'm wrong about the 190s. That the manual pitch control won't make a difference or too small to worry about. So, just my opinion here on that. Try it in late war spit. It becomes a totally different plane.

In the 190A I agree. The D is good enough that you really don't need manual IMO. As for the Ta 152 everyone is so afraid of it that it's never in the servers so I've only flown it a handful of times.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

your not supposed to leave the mw 50 on all the time and just open the rads to cool. your not supposed to leave auto prop pitch on all the time. your not supposed to fly around at 100% prop pitch all the time in csp. this is how rookies fly 46. no wonder they like clod so much. they never "got" 46. have fun in clod.

Totally not condescending at all or anything

[MadBlaster]

Was flying 190d last night and thought of this post. I don't fly 190 much in the past. Anyway...

I think they modeled a torque limiter for high manifold pressures in the 190. So if you run the mp's up high, say 1.8 ata with the mw50 or added fuel injection on, you can manually increase the rpms to say 3500 rpm at 100% prop pitch. But you can only lower them down to 3000 rpm at 0% prop pitch due to I guess, the torque limiter in effect. I suppose this makes sense to avoid strain on the crankshaft. So, to decrease further, say 2600 at 0% prop pitch, you must lower the mp's (i.e., turn the mw 50/injection off and reduce throttle). The d9 accelerates really good and you can cruise at very high speed at 1.2-1.3 ata with rads closed. None of this rads at 2, 102 throttle and mw50 all day long. That is not optimal in any case. You waste fuel and have no heat reserve for battle.

[orangec]

Can someone explain relations between flight altittude and propeller pitch ?

[Forcavitale]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

There isn't one single ideal setting.

Forgive my bluntness but thinking of prop pitch in terms of % is looking at it the wrong way. Read below for explanation.

In the Bf 109E-3 for example, you have what's called a variable pitch propeller. That means you can adjust the blade angle, and the prop stays at that angle no matter what you do with the throttle. By comparison the Hurricane with the Rotol prop has a Constant Speed Propeller. What this means is that instead of selecting a particular blade angle, you're selecting an engine RPM that you want. Then when you play with the throttle, the prop governor tries its best to maintain that engine RPM. That leads us into the best way to visualize prop pitch.

Yes, pitch is the angle at which the blades bite into the air. But this isn't a helpful way to think of it, and neither is the analogy to shifting gears in your car.

In my humble opinion, the best way to think of prop pitch is in terms of engine RPM. Forget the blade angle and forget the percentage. Every engine has a range of RPMs where it works best. For the 109 this is about 2200-2400 RPM. So what you should always be doing is keeping your engine RPM in that range, by fiddling with the prop pitch.

You'll notice as you climb, your RPMs will go down. Time to raise them by going to a finer pitch setting.

In a dive your RPMs will rise dramatically. Time to lower them by coarsening your pitch.

It does model this, but most aircraft functioned like CSPs, not VPPs.

So whats the ideal RPM for a Hurricane Rotol?