Whats with the Spit E retention?

[gimpy117]

What does it take to bounce this aircraft? I bounced a Spit attacking a 110 with a 5000+ ft. E advantage, and he did the old spitfire loop on me and immediately had lead. Lets face it, He entered the same maneuver I followed with, and from a lower energy state ended up in a higher energy state. I wasn't worried about turn fighting with him, because c'mon it's the G.50!...but it seems this isn't isolated. I had a Spit on the edge of stall (actually he did go for a swim later, but i think he just didn't see the water) with his flaps down, yet he was still able to do loops and the like, something I could scarcely follow. I know I have less horsepower, yet I'm about 1,000 pounds or so lighter.

I'm just confused here...and I've noticed this flying the spit myself...what does it take to bleed serious energy from this craft? I've only found myself once stalling other than that pulling off hard turns is a baby frolic

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

what does it take to bleed serious energy from this craft? I've only found myself once stalling other than that pulling off hard turns is a baby frolic

I've lost the spit on many occasions. Aggressively reversing your turn with the nose slightly up will do it, especially if your air-speed is below 100mph. The spit will flick if you yank it past the buffet, especially when out of trim in the z-axis.

Dropping the flaps does give you a remarkable rate of turn in the spits...but then you bleed of so much speed doing it that you have to go guns at the first opportunity, and then get nose level and roll out fast to get some energy back. If anyone can do a full level max-rate turn with the flaps down and maintain anything more than about 120mph indicated, I would like to know.

As soon as the 109 realizes you are slow, he should climb. The dead 109s are the ones that stay in the same vertical plane.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by pstyle

I've lost the spit on many occasions. Aggressively reversing your turn with the nose slightly up will do it, especially if your air-speed is below 100mph. The spit will flick if you yank it past the buffet, especially when out of trim in the z-axis.
.

yeah but under 100mph is dead slow...It's silly you can't go over AoA if over that speed...especially with that thin wing. it's strange, because the Me-109's stall speed is 75 MPH "when" Gliding and the Spitfires is 87MPH when gliding in A.S.I

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/...ls/Morgan.html
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171.html

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

yeah but under 100mph is dead slow...It's silly you can't go over AoA if over that speed...especially with that thin wing. it's strange, because the Me-109's stall speed is 75 MPH "when" Gliding and the Spitfires is 87MPH when gliding in A.S.I

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/...ls/Morgan.html
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171.html

You can't outurn a Spit even in a Fiat G50 (that have a Cr42 FM I suspect). So much that in twice occasion, doing the Hula Hoop with a spit in my six, nose down, I ended with no energy at all. On the first occasion, I splashed flat from 50 m in the sea (no Pilot death) on trhe second one I fell down to earth with enough alt for a recoveery.

What did the Spit pilot stuck in my 6 the seconds before ? He twic epulled out 500+meter higher in a CLIMBING TURN !!!!

Frankly, if you are an experienced flyer and still use the Spit in CoD, shame on you (unless you have some sentimental acquaintanceship with her - you know... just like boys and b**bs).

I don't understand what Russians have with the Spit. Did try one last time the marvelous Spit in Jane's WWII (Jane's is a BRIT (!) company) and that was just it: perfect.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

You can't outurn a Spit even in a Fiat G50 (that have a Cr42 FM I suspect). So much that in twice occasion, doing the Hula Hoop with a spit in my six, nose down, I ended with no energy at all. On the first occasion, I splashed flat from 50 m in the sea (no Pilot death) on trhe second one I fell down to earth with enough alt for a recoveery.

What did the Spit pilot stuck in my 6 the seconds before ? He twic epulled out 500+meter higher in a CLIMBING TURN !!!!

Frankly, if you are an experienced flyer and still use the Spit in CoD, shame on you (unless you have some sentimental acquaintanceship with her - you know... just like boys and b**bs).

I don't understand what Russians have with the Spit. Did try one last time the marvelous Spit in Jane's WWII (Jane's is a BRIT (!) company) and that was just it: perfect.

I agree, that's what I've noticed it was doing large climbing turns on me and semi-barrel rolling over to make gun runs on me. No way I could follow on this and he was out turning me. I call foul on that I thought the G.50 was supposed to be VERY maneuverable. and it is interesting, the G.50 does seem to be closer to the Cr42...it makes about the max speed mentioned at 400M. and I can't get above that. I got it to 3,995 meters or so and my engine blew...hrmph...so yes Something Is screwy here with the Spit...especially since it can out turn ANYTHING is seems be it the hurricane or the G.50

also, the Merlin with +6 boost only has .2 better power loading than the G.50. Although who flies the Ia with the 89 octane anyways. There was large lobby for the rarer IIa with 100 octane so i suspect that everybody is wheeling around in dogfights with the 12+ boost

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I agree, that's what I've noticed it was doing large climbing turns on me and semi-barrel rolling over to make gun runs on me. No way I could follow on this and he was out turning me. I call foul on that I thought the G.50 was supposed to be VERY maneuverable. and it is interesting, the G.50 does seem to be closer to the Cr42...it makes about the max speed mentioned at 400M. and I can't get above that. I got it to 3,995 meters or so and my engine blew...hrmph...so yes Something Is screwy here with the Spit...especially since it can out turn ANYTHING is seems be it the hurricane or the G.50

Yes it was. That's why I am taking it as a reference.

I hve to say that some Spitpilot even don't realize this fact until you'd notice that to them.

So I guess we have to be patient. There is still a handful of Spit's extremist, but the vast majority simply can't see it for now.

[gimpy117]

I noticed it from the start. Always wondered why my hurricane falls out of the sky yet the spit flies on. i don't even touch the caine' anymore because it's just so much worse and there's no reason to fly it since the spit can out turn, out climb, and out run it. Seems to be like the same with the G.50. Sure, the G.50 was a so-so aircraft but in the turning furballs we have now it should excel. I've read reports that Ace pilots sometimes fought to a draw in Hurricanes and G.50's in the few times the Slow G.50's got into the mix.

right now Im thinking I'm going to be forced to fly the Me-109 in Bnz tactics, or just keep my canopy open in the G.50 at all times since I know i'm going to die.

Might as well get a extra 300 and a pistol. Might have a better chance to stay with the spits in a turn.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

What does it take to bounce this aircraft? I bounced a Spit attacking a 110 with a 5000+ ft. E advantage, and he did the old spitfire loop on me and immediately had lead. Lets face it, He entered the same maneuver I followed with, and from a lower energy state ended up in a higher energy state. I wasn't worried about turn fighting with him, because c'mon it's the G.50!...but it seems this isn't isolated. I had a Spit on the edge of stall (actually he did go for a swim later, but i think he just didn't see the water) with his flaps down, yet he was still able to do loops and the like, something I could scarcely follow. I know I have less horsepower, yet I'm about 1,000 pounds or so lighter.

I'm just confused here...and I've noticed this flying the spit myself...what does it take to bleed serious energy from this craft? I've only found myself once stalling other than that pulling off hard turns is a baby frolic

Seriously mate, I think you should try a different game.

[gimpy117]

its okay ill figure it out eventually thanks though. i just find the FM's a little quirky at the moment.
what can I say? Im a stickler for FM's. IMO they make or break a game. If it's discovered a plane flies way over modeled it's Abused; either passively or on purpose. I'll take RoF for example. The Camel was (or maybe still is) way to fast, yet turned very very well. Everybody and their sister was in the camel...and whole planesets had to be made just to counter the thing. Either that or you had to fly on tippy toes when it rolled around.

and just to clear the air, I'm not making any personal attacks at anyone or at least not intentionally anyways.

[SEE]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

What did the Spit pilot stuck in my 6 the seconds before ? He twic epulled out 500+meter higher in a CLIMBING TURN !!!!

Frankly, if you are an experienced flyer and still use the Spit in CoD, shame on you (unless you have some sentimental acquaintanceship with her - you know... just like boys and b**bs).
.

Mk. MrX and a many other 109 jockeys don't have much fear of the Spits - they seem to deal with them quite efficiently. I can only assume that they exploit the strengths of the 109 and the shortcomings of the Spit.

You might want to try the same approach rather than label players as being 'shameless' and making daft and innapropriate analogies! Sadly, we have read your anti Spit rhetoric to the point where it becomes rather tedious.