Film of the competitors! (Boo Hiss!)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hi,

I was just over at SimHQ and found a video of the 'soon to be released' DCS A10 sim.

Even though the film has been manipulated with filters and the the like it is still pritty impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUu4SV3GjVw

I wonder how long it will be until we see a similar video from SOW?

After seeing videos like this, I guess there might be room on my PC for a couple of sims


Some of the things I've noticed lacking from the film (and it was based on a early build) are:
The cockpit instuments look flat compared to the ones shown in the spitfire video and mages of the 109 cockpit;
Lack of dynamic shadows in the cockpit as the plane moves (compared with the spit fire cockpit video)
The models of the boats early on are quite crude and out of place (I wonder if they are from the same sim or are just put in from another for effect????)

Cheers!

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

The cockpit instuments look flat compared to the ones shown in the spitfire video and mages of the 109 cockpit;
Lack of dynamic shadows in the cockpit as the plane moves (compared with the spit fire cockpit video)
The models of the boats early on are quite crude and out of place (I wonder if they are from the same sim or are just put in from another for effect????)

1. They are not just simple textures on flat surfaces. You can see that on some earlier screenshots (note the reflections on the instruments):

2. The video is WIP, much like IL2 is. The video shows the game in DX9. The final version will support DX11.
3. As Oleg mentioned for his boats, they are pretty simple, because you will swish over them with 400kp/h.
Now think what you will see when flying by with 900kp/h. I promise you, you won't notice the difference, which boat was modeled with more polygons.

Of course you can always find something negative, if you search hard enough for the simple fact that nobody and nothing is perfect.
If you find something better or more realistic than SoW or DCS, please let me know. If it really think you could do better, get a 3D modelling program (several are free, some with free trial-period), build one and send it to them.

[Romanator21]

I guess SoW is somewhat unique in the flight sim department in that it supports self-shading for aircraft interiors as well as exteriors (RoF also has this feature).

However, I understand why the DCS team would have chosen not to represent these - the cockpits of modern jets are very busy, and they would obscure the fine text and markings on the panels. It's very much a technical simulation than a graphical/arcade one.

The terrain detail is far less than that of SoW so far, but you can't help but like the colors and photographic textures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1FYIVMn9zs

[tagTaken2]

Don't really think of DCS as competitors... it's a different, or even complementary market. I'll buy both, and given the money/hours of play value of both games I'm not sure there will be many people agonising over which one to spend their money on. The only real problem is that they may both come out at the same time (SoW two weeks after A-10, naturally), and I won't know which one to play first.
The point of this post was actually to ask if Oleg has played Black Shark, and impressions taken, just curiosity.

[Viking]

Thanks for the video! Flight sims have com a long way, almost photo realism to day.
I find that its realistic down to the detail that the opponents lack weapons to defend themselves with. Impressive!

Viking

[Xilon_x]

FANTASTIC the DCS is good software hause is professional and airplane are realistic wirtual cocpith clicable cokcpit and is very hard simulators. i have black shark and lock on flaming clif2 are fantastic.hard game hard simulation.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Like I said, I'll probably be buying both sims.

One of the reasons I posted a video of a 'State of the art' sim is to put our weekly updates into a bit of perspective. Compared to the A-10 what we've seen of SOW looks fairly good.

Now I haven't spent as much time trolling around the DCS forums as here but from what I've seen it's a much more positive and constructive feel to it. There seems to be a higher percentage of negative comments about updates on this site than over there.

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

1. They are not just simple textures on flat surfaces. You can see that on some earlier screenshots (note the reflections on the instruments):

Your right it does look a lot better in that screen shot. Very similar to the Spitfire and 109 cockpit we've seen. Hopefully it will get the lighting and shadows in it's release.

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

2. The video is WIP, much like IL2 is. The video shows the game in DX9. The final version will support DX11.

I guess I'll be having to get a DX11 card by the end of the year then.

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

3. As Oleg mentioned for his boats, they are pretty simple, because you will swish over them with 400kp/h.
Now think what you will see when flying by with 900kp/h. I promise you, you won't notice the difference, which boat was modeled with more polygons.

Yes your right! The thing that made me doubt if it was the same sim was the difference in detail between the boats and the other ground objects in the video.

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

Of course you can always find something negative, if you search hard enough for the simple fact that nobody and nothing is perfect.
If you find something better or more realistic than SoW or DCS, please let me know. If it really think you could do better, get a 3D modelling program (several are free, some with free trial-period), build one and send it to them.

Never have any truer words been posted on this forum! (Well there was the time where I posted that I was suave and debonair but I'll let that one slide for the moment!)

Although I am a Systems Analyst/Programmer by training and former occupation (currently working as an Educator), my field was databases. I doubt my 3D modeling skills would extend past a paper aircraft design . I'll leave that one to the experts.

Cheers! In this crazy mixed-up world, it good to find a like minded soul!

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

I guess SoW is somewhat unique in the flight sim department in that it supports self-shading for aircraft interiors as well as exteriors (RoF also has this feature).

However, I understand why the DCS team would have chosen not to represent these - the cockpits of modern jets are very busy, and they would obscure the fine text and markings on the panels. It's very much a technical simulation than a graphical/arcade one.

I didn't know about that decision.

I guess that when your developing a sim like these there is always going to be a trade off between the features that you implement and the performance that your trying to achieve.

Originally Posted by Romanator21

The terrain detail is far less than that of SoW so far, but you can't help but like the colors and photographic textures.

....

Maybe they decided to model arid terrain because they couldn't get the right colour green for a European theatre.

I like the way tufts of grass fit in quite well with the landscape. Looks quite realistic.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by tagTaken2

Don't really think of DCS as competitors... it's a different, or even complementary market. I'll buy both, and given the money/hours of play value of both games I'm not sure there will be many people agonising over which one to spend their money on. The only real problem is that they may both come out at the same time (SoW two weeks after A-10, naturally), and I won't know which one to play first.
The point of this post was actually to ask if Oleg has played Black Shark, and impressions taken, just curiosity.

A post like that would be quite interesting reading.

My problem over here in WA is that it takes an extra week or two for new sims to get into the shops compared to you guys on the East Coast. Do you know how hard that is to take! It would drive a man to buy the game off the Internet!

cheers!

[Feuerfalke]

I think the difference between the boats and the vehicles is a matter or priorities, which was between the lines I wrote.

You are much more likely to take a closer look at a combat vehicle or user-placed object, either through your targeting pod or with the external camera than some random traffic vehicle like this boat.


Still I have no doubt that SoW will soon look as good as DCS, in some parts maybe even better. Let's not forget that these two simulations have two completely different origins:
Because DCS is based upon the largely modular engine from LockOn, which again is based upon the experiences, data and engine of Flanker, we see a constant development and improvement of an existing sophisticated engine.

Oleg is doing the same thing, just that he's at the beginning of his modular engine, because the old IL2-engine was not enough modular and flexible to allow a similar evolution. IL2 simply has grown too far beyond its boundaries.
Given todays possibilities in programming and computing, new insights and the experience based from the successes and weaknesses of IL2, I bet that SoW will improve even faster than DCS, once the engine is completed as the solid basement.

That's why I don't think we can compare the two sims in any regard and I also don't think they compete with each other.