Soviet Aircraft!! Questions/Answers.

[Soviet Ace]

I just figured, that it would be better to put all the Soviet Aircraft questions (anything question(s) you have). Just so we don't have everything being asked in one thread and another. Keep it orderly.

Anyway, responding to David's post about the Yak-3 and FW-190 roll rate. In my book, and several others I have. The Yak-3 was even with the earlier FWs ie FWA2-3-4-5. But once they came out with the later ones that were bomber capable. Their roll rate wasn't as good as before, and the Yak-3s could tear into them. (I really wish I had a scanner so I could show some pages.)

BOOK LINK: Yakolev's Piston Engined Fighter

[SirBruce]

Were so good the planes and pilots from Russia as they appear in the game? I supposed they had old planes and not so trained men for them. Maybe there was a really fast evolution in the year since the first German wave and the post winter one, but... so big?

[Swagger7]

Originally Posted by SirBruce

Were so good the planes and pilots from Russia as they appear in the game? I supposed they had old planes and not so trained men for them. Maybe there was a really fast evolution in the year since the first German wave and the post winter one, but... so big?

The Russian planes were actually pretty good. (on par with Germany/Britain/America) The I-16, not so much, but it was old. I'm pretty sure Soviet pilots didn't get as much training as other countries' pilots early on (they were desperate) but they taught new pilots tactics that were easy to employ, like flying the whole mission at high speed to avoid getting jumped from behind and making slashing attacks, then bugging out. After the pilots got experience this way they were given more training in tactics. At least that's what I read from a translated interview with a Soviet ace. I'm not sure how widespread this form of "on the job" training was or how long it lasted. Do you have any idea, Soviet Ace?

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by SirBruce

Were so good the planes and pilots from Russia as they appear in the game? I supposed they had old planes and not so trained men for them. Maybe there was a really fast evolution in the year since the first German wave and the post winter one, but... so big?

At first, the Red Air Force was nothing but some guys with little flying experience. Some were either veterans from the war in Spain, or fighting in later 1937-38 against the Japanese during their little border war in Manchuria. So when WW2 broke out, the Luftwaffe went straight for the airfield, destroying every plane they could fire at. But those who did get to make it through the 41' offensive blitz, they were all pulled back and retrained in new tactics. Like during 1942 when all the machine factories were pulled behind the Ural mountains etc. out of range of any German bomber/fighter, then the pilots and planes became exceptional. So by 1942, the Red Air Force was becoming more determined with moral and better equipped and agile planes.

Originally Posted by Swagger7

The Russian planes were actually pretty good. (on par with Germany/Britain/America) The I-16, not so much, but it was old. I'm pretty sure Soviet pilots didn't get as much training as other countries' pilots early on (they were desperate) but they taught new pilots tactics that were easy to employ, like flying the whole mission at high speed to avoid getting jumped from behind and making slashing attacks, then bugging out. After the pilots got experience this way they were given more training in tactics. At least that's what I read from a translated interview with a Soviet ace. I'm not sure how widespread this form of "on the job" training was or how long it lasted. Do you have any idea, Soviet Ace?

Most Russian planes later like the Yak-3, Yak-9, La-5, were all more or less more capable than the FWs that they were up against. Basically any German plane you put up against them, they were more likely to win. The Yak-3 could out turn, out roll, and climb better than the FW-190A3 and out roll and turn the other later FWs that it came up against. But against the 109s, that was were the La-5s (Though still a low-medium altitude plane) came into play. They could poor heavier cannon rounds into the 109s. And actually, the 109s and 190s did avoid turning combat with the I-16s since the little plane could pull tighter than both. The MiG-3 though it may look fast, was actually quite slow and was often chewed up against its 109 and 190 counterparts.

[Smudgyboy]

I love this forum, not only do you get tips on gaming but you also widen your knowledge about WW2..

..kin fantastic chaps

[mondo]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

Most Russian planes later like the Yak-3, Yak-9, La-5, were all more or less more capable than the FWs that they were up against. Basically any German plane you put up against them, they were more likely to win. The Yak-3 could out turn, out roll, and climb better than the FW-190A3 and out roll and turn the other later FWs that it came up against.

Your statement is so utterly blanket and incorrect I don't know where to start.

No Yak 3 ever fought an 190A3. They are not even comparable as they never saw each other in combat. Your comparing an extemely late war aircraft, most of which were build after the war finished against an early war variant which were all but retired by the introduction of the Yak 3.

A3's were getting put up against Lagg3's, Yak1's and 7's (which were all inferior to A3's and 4's they would have met in all but turning circle). A Yak 3 was more likely to meet an A8 or D9 which both could roll with the Yak3 easily and the D9 edges past the Yak3 in quite few different areas of performance, unless your talking about post war varients.

Depending on the subvarient of 190 the roll rate actually got better as versions were introduced. The D9 could easily our roll a Yak 3 through out the speed range, especially as the speed range increased. Then there is diving, the whole Yak series were poor divers due to there weight and power or lack of and in many cases poor build quality.

Just check out the spitfireperformance site for actual performance test results.

[Buggins]

Originally Posted by mondo

Your statement is so utterly blanket and incorrect I don't know where to start.

No Yak 3 ever fought an 190A3. They are not even comparable as they never saw each other in combat. Your comparing an extemely late war aircraft, most of which were build after the war finished against an early war variant which were all but retired by the introduction of the Yak 3.

A3's were getting put up against Lagg3's, Yak1's and 7's (which were all inferior to A3's and 4's they would have met in all but turning circle). A Yak 3 was more likely to meet an A8 or D9 which both could roll with the Yak3 easily and the D9 edges past the Yak3 in quite few different areas of performance, unless your talking about post war varients.

Depending on the subvarient of 190 the roll rate actually got better as versions were introduced. The D9 could easily our roll a Yak 3 through out the speed range, especially as the speed range increased. Then there is diving, the whole Yak series were poor divers due to there weight and power or lack of and in many cases poor build quality.

Just check out the spitfireperformance site for actual performance test results.

Owned!

[SirBruce]

I really was owned in the second Russian mission, when I heard an Spanish guy speaking (ok, I have the Spanish version). I suppose that he is a veteran from the republican army in Spain that ended fighting in the side of russians in Stalingrad. A good argument if it would have been developed trough the game. Really.

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by mondo

Your statement is so utterly blanket and incorrect I don't know where to start.

No Yak 3 ever fought an 190A3. They are not even comparable as they never saw each other in combat. Your comparing an extemely late war aircraft, most of which were build after the war finished against an early war variant which were all but retired by the introduction of the Yak 3.

A3's were getting put up against Lagg3's, Yak1's and 7's (which were all inferior to A3's and 4's they would have met in all but turning circle). A Yak 3 was more likely to meet an A8 or D9 which both could roll with the Yak3 easily and the D9 edges past the Yak3 in quite few different areas of performance, unless your talking about post war varients.

Depending on the subvarient of 190 the roll rate actually got better as versions were introduced. The D9 could easily our roll a Yak 3 through out the speed range, especially as the speed range increased. Then there is diving, the whole Yak series were poor divers due to there weight and power or lack of and in many cases poor build quality.

Just check out the spitfireperformance site for actual performance test results.

One thing you don't understand, is that the A8 could not roll with a Yak-3. The Yak-3 was primarily and always built for dogfighting, where the FWA8 was used as a fighter/bomber. Now that it was a bomber as well, it takes away the roll rate since it's heavier, and more armored. I used the FWA3 and Yak-3 because both were light and had good roll rates over their counterparts. So in theory, and from what their statistics are, if a Yak-3 were to go up against a FWA3, it could be a pretty fair and even dogfight. Both were lightly armored, and had fast speeds, which in a true dogfight you want in your fighter.

And your statement of Yak-3s going up against D9s is absolutely wrong. No Yak-3 ever flew its maximum height, and no D9 unless the pilot was an idiot flew below or at 5,000-6,000 ft. where the Yak-3 owned the skies. No German fighter could roll with a Yak-3 unless it was like a FWA3 or another early FW.

So until you understand your specs and have read up on the Yak-3, please don't come on my thread and try to tell me what I know to be true. Soviet pilots who flew Yak-3s do not lie.

Understand your Soviet Aircraft, then come on here and have a reasonable chat. Don't come on here and try to be rude. I've been learning about Soviet Aircraft for many many years, and have bought and read many books and memoirs of Soviet pilots and planes.

[juz1]

Fight! Fight! Fight!
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