Gyro-gunsight settings
 

As far as I know, in real history... K-14 and MKII Ferranti gunsights...

-There existed setting for choosing the enemy aircraft type (trgt wingspan; presumably also trgt speed is estimated by this setting too)

-There also existed setting (range dial) for choosing engagement range (yards/meters)

-I should be able to know, which range setting is enabled currently such as 100m 200m etc... ?

-Why doesn't the cockpit show directly with a message, which engagement range is currently indicated in the gunsight? Bombsight is always indicated when you change bomber altitude, speed, angle?

-By what increments does the range dial increase or decrease?Again in fighter configuration with K-14 and MKII (I forget if MKII is even in-game, maybe it's currently in HSFX mod with some late-war spitfires)


The real life gunsight has physical range dials with markings ,which show which range setting is currently enabled. This has been my understanding after some reading.

Maybe it's best to pre-set the range dial, into your gun convergence such as 273 meters. 300 yards

i.e. I have to pre-set fighter trgt wingspan, then I try to see, how many times the lead indicator fits into the fixed gunsight, and calculate from there?

(aren't the british and US sights different mil reticle though? I always get little confused when changing between British and US aircraft)


In german aircraft using meters and REVI mil reticle, you arrive into easy calculation using 10m wingspan
(wingspan m) * (number of times in circle) * (10) = (trgt range)

So, assuming I'm flying dora fw190, I would pre-select spitfire wingspan (10m), and then increase range, until wingspan (exactly speaking, the wingspan INSIDE the lead-indicator) equals to half of the fixed reticle?

This way, I'm using 200m gun convergence and lead indicator is correct distance at 200m distance, with spitfire trgt wingspan at 10m?

Then I simply fit the lead indicator into the spitfire's wingspan and blast away.

So, assuming I'm making a high speed diving pass from above, I should be able to hit this sucker spitfire, with correct deflection, assuming he's just flying about, mindings his own business.

It would certainly be easier to use the gyro gunsight if the game gave you indication always of the current enabled range setting.

It would be historically correct to my understanding, if the game indicated the range setting when you change it. The indication of range would exist even if you used pure lead-indicator gunsight mode only... lead-indicator without fixed gunsight.

Because you are able to see the moving dials in real life (300 yards, 250 yards, 200 yards etc)

Heh, I wrote many PM's to some TD members if they plan to "do something" with gyro gunsights, if they plan to add it to Spitfires, but it looks like they are not interested. And not just gyro gunsights other sights were adjustable too, but...

I guess bombing sights are closer to their hearts.

Give it some time. The bombing changes have been building up for nearly a decade of trying to get Oleg's team to change/improve it and then later getting TD to work on this stuff.

They are fans of the series just as you are. Not every issue can be taken care of at once.

I have dozens of issues with IL-2 1946 (not to say that it isn't an amazing sim) and some we've been able to change quickly. Others are not a priority right now.

Yes, also the regular spitfire reflector gunsight (non-gyro) could be adjusted.

there existed range dial, with British reflector gunsights, with which the pilot could range targets stadiametrically... This is assuming that the pilot doesn't want to do the mental gymnastic of rangefinding.

Although the same effect can be achieved by some mental gymnastic using the radian calculation.

e.g. german revi

fighter distance = 100meters x (number of wingspans inside circle)
heavy bomber distance = 300meters x (number of wingspans inside circle)
medium bomber distance = 200meters x (number of wingspans inside circle)

Works well enough without memorizing different aircraft wingspans exactly...
e.g. bomber fills up circle with 2/3 wingspan inside, and 1/3 wingspan outside, this means that bomber is 200m distance. When two wingspans fit into circle, then the bomber is 600m distance etc...

Same ranging effect could be achieved by shrinking or enlargening the circle, because the stadiametric rangedialing existed in primitive analog computing fashion, in the British gunsight. The effect of British gunsights stadiametric ranging is actually modelled in CloD I think... but not regular IL-2...

I think the principle would be necessary for gyro-gunsights, If you really were supposed to change the range and also the wingspan settings. How otherwise would it be possible to know the range setting currently enabled by the gyro-gunsight? if the gyro-gunsight gives you zero information which setting is currently enabled. The only way to obtain range setting is to use fixed-plus-gyro mode, and compare the lead-indicator-wingspans to the fixed sight-circle.


In the game, it's impossible to know the range setting when using only gyro-gunsight-mode (only lead-indicator is showing in reflector). In real life, it was possible to know the range setting because the sights tells you correct range (with physical rangedial with markings)
This last part was a conclusion which I reached when reading into the operating principles of the gunsights.

I suppose it doesn't matter THAT MUCH, in game, because wing-mounted guns are very bad when out of convergence distance. Only wing-mounted gun aircraft, have gyro-gunsights... You can live by, when you only shoot at convergence distance or close-to-it, with wing-mounted guns using gyro-gunsights. In real life, p-38 was equipped with K-14 Sperry gyro-gunsight, but this does not currently exist in game. This would be quite nice setup, for sure, for the K-14 with powerful central-nose-armament.

With mustangs, you are more or less chained to your chosen gun convergence if you want to deal good bits of damage, anyway...

For American gunsight it seems that there existed range-knob, which has to be twisted to obtain "correct range"

It seems I was slightly wrong about the working operation of the gunsight!

http://www.lonesentry.com/blog/k-14-gunsight.html

Before engaging enemy, presumably the enemy wingspan will be chosen as necessary.

Minimum range setting is = 182.88m

Maximum range setting is = 731.52m

I am unsure if it is possible for the pilot to know exactly, which range positions are chosen, EXCEPT for the max and min ranges (those are always same according to factory specifications)

Therefore, the gun convergence should be between those min and max ranges.

The pilot could either, choose the shortest range setting, and move it further, until the enemy target fits into the diamonds indicator...

Or he could use the fixed-and-gyro-mode, and calculate the necessary diamonds indicator wingspan(you simply imagine that diamonds indicator is already enemy fighter, when compared to fixed circle.)

This way he can choose to engage at convergence distance vs fighter for example, without any gunsight-fiddling with fingers, during the heat of battle.

If he changes target between bomber and fighter, then the sight must be recalibrated of course...

This way, the necessary range can be obtained. (imagine you're flying in a straight line at home territory doing this when flying). Works well enough for most purposes.

Then you can recalibrate gunsight when enemy fighters are destroyed, then you can switch into bomber-engagement-mode with gunsight. You could even calculate before battle, which gunsight positions would be most suitable for you, for either bombers or fighters...


Germans very rarely used heavy bombers as such, I think for most purposes it could be useful just to calculate only two cases of enemy aircraft, for instance 10m fighter wingspan, and 20m medium bomber wingspan. German side, could encounter American heavy bombers with 30m wingspan.

Then with K14 gunsight, you select either focke-wulf or heinkel target, and choose the range setting into correct distance, when you compare diamonds into fixed gunsight. Then you know, when the enemy enters the "killing zone" distance...

This kind of estimation works well enough for the standard German REVI in most cases. I can't bother calculating the distances properly for each and every slightly different enemy aircraft wingspan. The lead will not be that much different, unless the difference between wingspans is drastic large... Always aim for the nose of the enemy, this helps mitigate small number of wrong aiming. (you still hit the middle fuselage and tail, otfentimes)

The K-14 gunsight does NOT calculate lead based on enemy aircraft speed.
According to historical documents, the principle only takes note of your own aircraft angular velocity and all kinds of fancy calculation, to arrive into an eastimation of correct lead.

Radar based gunsights do, on the other hand, calculate accurately on the basis of enemy speed, and enemy angle. K-14 is not radar-based, only gyroscopic.

Therefore, the choice of enemy target type, should only be for purposes of narrowing down the wingspan of enemy. For the purposes of more accurate estimation of lead and range.

If you calculated with Fw-190 setting, the stuka out in the distance off your cockpit, will appear too far, for the gunsight, when you use fw-190 setting.

Reason being, that fw-190 wingspan is smaller than stuka?

When you compare me-109 setting into fw-190 out in the distance off your cockpit, the lead and range will be almost exactly same (because wingspans are basically the same) Choice of target type would be unnecessary in this case when engaging me109 or fw190, assuming you make boom and zoom attacks and you have a medium distance convergence. You have to climb outside your convergence, and dive back into attack curve, and fly into convergence range again...

When you compare heinkel wingspan into stuka, the stuka is too close.

But I'm not sure how much error exists in reality, when you compare fw-190 wingspan into stuka out in the distance off your cockpit. Probably the stuka will still be destroyed if you shoot a good sized burst into him!