P51D v 109K in BoP
 

From a discussion on the "beginners guide to planes" i took these two bird up in training mode to see how they compared (curiosity really) and ehres what i came up with, bear in mind these probably wont be accurate to the exact MPH but its going to be very close -

TOP SPEED

P51D -
Below 1000ft - 298MPH
roughly 5000ft - 315MPH
roughly 10000ft - 331MPH
roughly 20000ft - 304MPH

109K -
Below 1000ft - 331MPH
roughly 5000ft - 339MPH
roughly 10000ft - 356MPH
roughly 20000ft - 392MPH

Rate of roll P51 is superior

Ammo cap P51 -29-30 sec 109k - 9-15 sec worth

Rate of climb 109 is superior

Cockpit vis 109 is better (prior to patch release, then P51 will be)

Weapons 6 MG's 2 MG's 3 Cannons



Please note this isnt 100% accurate but roughly what i came up with from trials i did on training. I maxed out the throttle with both and left it for a good 30 seconds to see if speed would increase. So speed could be/prob will be slightly different than stated (but marginally).

Ammo cap is the amount of time you'll get if limited ammo is enabled, so keep note of it ;) for the 109 you get 9-10 seconds worth of cannon fire and 15 seconds worth of MG fire. (roughly)

Remember this is also prior to the patch. Its highly likely that the 109 will stay as it is? but we all know the P51 will be "fixed". I look forward to "trials" once its sorted.

Im not a huge fan of the 51 or the 109 so im not sure if the above speeds are correct (roughly) for the models. Can anyone help?

I would imagine the P51 would be faster but from the test can see it has more speed at a higher altitude which i assumed it would as it was a high altitude escort :D

Overall it would appear the 109K is far superior. A few (not in depth) would also suggest its better than the spitfire XVI, though im yet to do a "proper in depth" test yet.

I'm also wondering how the P51 will be after the update..
I've checked with Widar's test results and the speeds seem about right.

I dont know why i bothered putting the P51 through its paces prior to patch, but this patch seems so far away and with no news on it and screen shots etc appearing for something on the pc im starting to get a little worried!!

Anyway -

the P51's speed i found to be rather poor, it should be much faster i find, and getting to the above speeds..... took forever!!

Noted by most is the ability of the P51 to stall or spin at the slightest pull of the stick (its a nightmare).

Well i found above 10000ft with over 300MPH on the clock you can pull a turn and you wont spin or stall, though you will lose speed very quickly and wont be able to conastantly stay in the turn, also noted is how wide the turn is!! its ridiculous.

All in all, the 51 is a mess, but we all know this anyway so theirs nothing new here really. What did suprise me was how ncie the 109K was to fly. Im a hurricane/spitfire pilot so dont really fly the luftwaffe kites much. But the 109K i found to be quite a joy to fly. Though noted a tabove 20000ft it did "shake" a little and seem to have some vibrations, so suggest keepnig it below that height.

Would be good to get another pilot online for a mock dogfight (not actually shooting each other) when the patch is released, or prior to the patch if we know what planes are not getting updated so we can learn a few things about them, top speed, ability to turn etc etc, the usual stuff. Or i can do it on my lonesome i dont mind :D its quite enjoyable and relaxing flying over the english countryside in peaceful times

Im not a huge P51 fan but from research ive done i believe the P51D has a max speed at 25000ft of 437MPH, and a crusing speed of 362MPH,

Well at 25000ft i can get it fluctuating between 340-345MPH, missing out on nearly 100MPH!!

Stall speed is roughly 100MPH, in this game i have it as roughly 130MPH, so thats not to bad.

lets see how the patch changes thnigs from whats mentioned here. :D



(nice to note that it can also pull an inverted loop below 350MPH)

I will help out with the testing foz, and i'm sure tudorp15 will too. We can get some formation flying in aswell :)

They screwed the p51 and fw190 over so badly in this game it's not funny.

Also, the fact that they are pimping screenshots for the pc version of this game gives me the impression that support for the console version is going to tank - we'll be lucky to get one patch to fix the major problems we have now.

I'll definitely hold off on their pc version to see if and how much of the console problems they fixed and if they made the multiplayer worth a damn.

I'm guessing I'll have to wait for SOW from Oleg and crew to get a true next gen flight sim - even if it doesn't have the "hollywood" fancy graphics of BOP - at least it will be an accurate sim and well supported by the community and developer.

Interesting post FOZ. Glad you tested the P-51's top speed at altitude to see if it matched the known speed. Nearly 100 MPH off? That's inexcusable.
It seems as if the P-51 has gotten the short end of the stick for some reason. One could argue that it appears to be intentional.

In case any developers are reading this can you respond? We know the patch has been submitted to Microsoft and it's not your responsibility but please keep us updated on any other updates. I've noticed you've been quiet for quite some time and I don't see any communication from you here or on the other forum (yuplay). Thanks! :)

We don't even know that for sure. They never said for certain that the title update had been sent to Microsoft/Sony, only that it was about to be sent. We haven't had a post from a dev since then, that was hmm about 3 weeks ago?

OK I must be going crazy or I read the post quickly. I could have sworn that a developer wrote that the patch was sent to Microsoft for certification. Well this makes things a whole lot worse.

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure it has been sent, it's just the devs never said "The update has now been sent off today" A month ago they said it was in final QA (whatever that means) and would be sent in the next couple of days. Heard nothing new since then, They could have held it back a week or more to add something else, we don't know.

Bit more research and it would appear that the P51 is well of, but the patch will address this so for now i will let it go and just leave this as "current". When the patch is released i'll take up the new P51 and compare with the old P51 :D

Pope, cheers for the offer mate, we'll have to get it sorted :D

I'm not worried about the P-51 at all. I'll just keep enjoying to kill them.

They are the most over rated plane in history, so people will not be happy with its performance no matter what patch comes out.

I think it might be "slightly" over rated, but that aside its still a nice plane to fly, it looks good and it did the job. It should be at least able to dogfight in some capacity.

As it is your fighting with the stick for control more than you are with the enemy.

dude, i'm getting a little tired of your pro-german, anti-american remarks. it's getting tired. i love that you're proud of your heritage, but if you love it so much why don't you move to germany? seriously, GTFO. i get so sick of people living in this country and hyping up whatever country they were born in or where their ancestors were born. if you love it so much, LEAVE.

the p-51 is the most over-rated plane in history? you're a tool. you tell me why your beloved luftwaffe aces both respected and feared p-51's... (just as much as p-51 pilots feared and respected the luftwaffe). they were great planes.

seriously, it was a RESPECTED fighter. yet you're so pro-german you can't see straight. i love 109's and 190's... they are GREAT. but to sit here and read your ignorant remarks makes me want to have your ass deported (if only i had the power).

I like the 109, 190, and P-51. But do either of you know which plane could wreck them both easily? YAK-3!!!!! (Now how's that for some hype ;))

Even after the patch the P-51 won't be able to turn and burn a spit, you've got to fly it with the right tactics. BnZ is the way to go mostly. I really can't wait for the patch. As much as I complain about some of the game's shortcomings, I'm still pumped to get back in the cockpit and light up some german ass with the P-51. :cool:

Slightly more on topic: FOZ I think it's great that your doing these tests, keep 'em up, it will be interesting to see if we can find any other quirks in the flight model. ;)

LOL! now you're enthusiasm makes me smile... ;)

i love using the YAK-3 in MP... absolutely lovely plane to fly. i mostly use the BF series and YAK-3... until the patch comes out, at which point I hope to use the FW-190 and P-51.

:cool:

Dude, you really need to take a chill pill. The Mustang ALWAYS wins every comparison I have seen on TV. Including the show "Top Tens". How could it beat the Spitfire? Just because it had range, people think of it as Gods gift to mankind.

I never even said it was a BAD plane...its very good. But that does not mean its not highly over rated.

Some people seem to think it should handle like a UFO and fly at mach 2 just because its a MUSTANG. And by some people, I mean the casual person who watches the history channel or other programs every now and then. They all tend to make it seem like the be all end all plane, and its not.

And please dont question my patriotism, you dont even know me. I have to love the mustang or I am not American enough for you? I should be deported?

Two words for you: GROW UP

I can't help it that my two favorite American planes are not in the game...and I love them both.

Narrowminded people like you give America a bad name. Thats why others call Americans arrogant.

I am just saying that there are many planes equal to...or better than the stang.

Dont tell me to respect a plane, when You cant even respect the opinions of someone else.

Have either of you realized, that the 109s perform better at lower altitudes than at higher altitudes like they should?

(Actually, I think I got that somewhere off the Suggestion to Devs thread, but none the less.)

I don't really pay much attention to the TV shows... and no, I don't need to take a chill pill. Almost every post you make denounces American planes, even when the OP isn't doing anything to hype them.

I don't need to grow up either. I could care less if you don't love the P-51... but at least show it some damn respect (kind of like I respect the 109 and Hartmann).

Narrowminded, you have got to be kidding me. You know very little about me. Am I running around touting America and nothing else? No. I'm criticizing your blatant pro-german attitude. NOT ONCE have I seen you show any respect for what YOUR COUNTRY did in the war. Two words: get out. Seriously... move to Germany.

And for the record, you were not saying anything was equal to the 'stang. You called it the most over-rated plane in history. You did not say anything about how the Mustang compares to a Spit, 109, or 190. You just piss down the throat of whatever strengths the plane had and eagerly dismiss it as shit.

Hey you two. I think this song will sum up your little disagreement? EDIT: by the way, their German.

Rammstein- Amerika

LMAO. Perfect song.

I'm good. Seriously, I have German heritage... but I can't stand when people can't see both sides of the fence. Some of his pervious remarks have irked me, but I let it slide... until now.

I'll move to France, him to Germany... we can both pilot RC planes and settle the score over the Rhine.

Dude, you started the personal attacks, not me. Get over yourself.
You dont have to blast me just because I am pro-German when it comes to war-birds.

If you disagree with my views on the mustang..oh well GET OVER IT!!

I have never downtalked or trashed America on this forum. I saw blatant bias on a TV show so I started a thread about it. Many others on here actually agreed with me. How is that trashing America?

I dont like how a fighter plane from ww2 is so over-rated...how is that trashing America. Dont be such an ignorant fool.

I love America, and honestly, your a complete asshole for questioning that based on my opinions about aircraft.
I am ashamed that people like you live here.....cant accept that people have different views. People like you contribute to the hatred of Americans that much of the world has.

I know..people are going to hate us anyway, but people like you add fuel to the fire. "Dont say anything bad about anything American, or you should be deported".......what a pompous and arrogant ass.

The funny part is if you met me, I'm sure we could have a completely normal conversation and get along just fine. I don't roam the streets waving an American flag, nor am I an overly patriotic American. I love many parts of the world, in fact, have traveled there, and tend to possess a wordly view when it comes to people... until they think they are overtly superior to others. America is no better than Europe and, in my opinion, it is worse off than many countries I admire across the pond. I respect this country and it's history, just as I feel anyone who chooses to live here should.

I singled you out because I want you to think twice about blasting comments about how much you loathe American planes and are so exorbitant about your German heritage. Be proud, but does it require advertisement? Shit, I'm German... and French... and Polish... and Cherokee. Do I run around saying how proud I am of these things? No! I could care less. I find no reason to identify with these places because I was born here and I live here. I'm a mutt... and little else matters.

Keep calling me an ass if it makes you feel better. Read your past remarks on this forum man... you sound like you're completely in love with Germany and can't see past it. It reminds me of the people of my neighborhood who are so proud of their heritage that they run around waving flags... with an air of superiority to the country in which they live. Seriously, if those places are so much better why not go there? That is all I ask. I don't want them waving American flags, but you have to admit that it is all a bit ironic.

I also called you out for the fact that you've been unable, up until this point, to say one positive thing about an American plane. I don't want you to worship the P-51, but don't make stupid remarks. It wasn't a POS.

I'm not pompous, nor arrogant (redundancy anoyone?) :P , but I am very aware that someone has a very one-sided opinion.

Listen, celebrate the Luftwaffe and their planes all you want... I will likely agree with you. I simply ask that you stop bashing other planes that easily held their own against your favorites.

If you want we can have a web hug, or I'll go buy the 360 version of the game and we'll have it out like true nerds.

i think everyone should get the 360 version so we can all congregate in one big happy place:P

There is only ONE American plane I have said anything bad about the whole time on this board. And I dont flaunt German heritage..just was pointing out that I am not Biased for America in every single way.

I mean, hell, the Corsair would OWN a Mustang. Is that a better comparison for you? So now you will say I am anti-Air Force and that I should join the Navy, right?

Your comments were way out of line to begin with, and now you want to hand me an olive branch?

How many times do I have to repeat that I love America? I am proud of my German heritage, but I never put Germany and Love in the same sentence.

So yea, I would say you do need a chill pill.

You not a mod anway. You have no business calling me out for anything to begin with.

Alright, here's my solution to the problem. Rather fly a 109 or P51, we all just fly Yak-3s and own the skies together!?!?!?!?! Sounds like a good plan to me. :D

Or we can fly the hurricane and use the YAK-3 as target practise?? sound like a compromise lads? :P

We could, but I wouldn't want to ruin your Hurricane with my ShVAK-20mm cannon :cool: And I wouldn't want to show your plane up either. :P

WOW!! that must be a pretty impressive cannon you have their!! it can fire backwards at targets behind you ;) lol


:P

I've noticed that the performance of the P-51 D5 in BOP more or less matches the lack of performance of the P-51 D5 in BSP, as I;ve noticed that the maximum speed attainable in both, in level flight, is in the 360 MPH range.

I've only manged over 400 MPH in steep dives in both BOP and BSP.

However only BSP seems to have the P-51 handling close to the real thing.

Ironically, the underpowered Alison P-51 A has a maximum speed of 360 MPH, so I'm wondering if somebody used the wrong figures somewhere??

Oh, LOL. A mod can only reprimand others (such as myself) or edit content on the forum. Big whoop. My business of calling you out was my opinion... because I was tired of hearing yours all the time. This is the one time I've been out of line on this board and there was a good reason for it. End of.

I'm handing you an olive branch because I'm tired and, frankly, we won't agree. I'd love to say you're anti- Air Force, but I don't think you are... and the Corsair was bad ass. LOL.

Whatever man...

I so wish they had the Corsair in the game. Didnt it have the highest K/D ratio of any plane during the war? If it was in the game, and you had a 360, I would show you how anti-air force I am. :P

The P38 was also badass..but not in the game. :(

it was one of the navy planes i think that had the highest K/D ratio (im not including the buffalo in this)

was either the hellcat/wildcat/corsair :)

Finally! We have common ground. I would gladly take you up on that offer. :D

mattman, look, I'm sorry for being dick. I'm not sorry for my opinion, just as I hope you aren't sorry for yours. I am sorry, though, for making it more personal than it needed to be. I've listened to Soviet Ace's clip a few times and my intensity has subsided. ;)

It isn't personal... after all, this is the intarweb and I'm sure you're a good guy IRL. As I said before, if we met in person I'm confident we would get along just fine.

In the future, let's continue to tout our favorites and agree to disagree on the P-51.

+ infinity (it should be, considering it was used in the ETO.)

My grandpa fought in the pacific (engineers) and he always talked about how it was his favorite plane. Even though its not my favorite plane, it holds a special place in my heart. If it was in the game, I would give the 109 a rest more often.

I seriously hope they have more DLC eventually.

The F-6F Hellcat was the highest scoring US Navy fighter with a 17:1 kill to loss ratio.

The F4U Corsair had a 10:1 kill to loss ratio and although it was faster than the Hellcat, the Corsair had the poorest turning circle and agility for any US Navy fighter, being secondarilily orientated towards ground attack and support

The Buffalo only performed well when NOT flown by inexperienced US Navy or US Marine personel, achieving a 2:1 kill to loss ratio with the Dutch and Commonwealth airforces in the far east and a 38:1 kill to loss ratio with the Finnish Air Force.

The only US aircraft carrier flying Buffaloes (B-339) was the escort and support carrier USS Long Island from 1941 until 1943. Despite numerous actions, the only losses were through accidents, usually involving landings.

Having flown the F-3A Corsair and Hellcat, in BSP, I'd go with the Hellcat everytime.

The P-51 also outclasses the Corsair on speed, agility, though not soaking up damage or odinance loadouts.

Can't well all just agree, that the Yak-3 would own any of these planes already mentioned. LOL :cool:

I've seen claims the Hellcat kill ratio was as high as 19:1. :eek:

Does a kill ratio include all kills & losses or just air-to-air?

This is a good point, because the Corsair could easily be death to an inexperienced pilot.

Kind of like how more BF-109's were lost in accidents than in actual combat.

The kill to loss ratio reflects losses due to air to air combat.

Unfortunately, it includes losses due to defensive gunners on bombers, not just fighter on fighter action.

Also fighter on bomber successes are also included.

If a fighter operates mainly against poorly armed bombers, it'll have a good kill to loss ratio.

It is more of a "Batting Average" than a dogfight rating.

Opportunity for engaging enmy aircraft is also a factor. By the end of WW2 the Japanese struggled to field any aircraft in meaningful numbers. There just wasn't the pickings for the later fighter planes.

By comparison, the Finns enjoyed a target rich envioronment filled with large numbers of poorly designed, underpowered, unarmoured and undergunned aircraft flown by determined but inexperienced and poorly trained pilots.

Between April 1942 and April 1943, on Finnish squadron of 18 x B-239 Buffaloes managed to shoot down a confirmed 274 Soviet aircraft with the loss of only two aircraft (one through combat damage on landing).

Two thirds of these kills were fighters such as the LaGG-1 and LaGG-3, Mig-3, La-5 and Yak.

Corsairs did spend a majority of their missions on ground support than direct combat. The Hellcat was intended as an air superiority fighter.

I thought I remember reading somewhere from actual pilot accounts that the P-51 had a very nasty and sudden stall if airspeed was too low. Seems this is accurate in game if this is true. Basically the pilots said, you just don't even let the P-51 stall or your really risking your life.

btw, I just got this game after playing the demo. Yes I died multiple times on the P51 mission in demo from stalls. I use a Saitek Avi8tr stick.

True, but the positives aspects on the P-51 are missing in this game. It's top speed is wrong - this is a FACT. It weighs too much - an error that affects it's flight modeling. The p-51 should have great high speed control authority - something the 109 lacked.

But we can't exploit this in game. We can't exploit it with the fw190 either, which should have the same excellent control at high speed.

Both just seem to flop out of the sky as if it were a funny joke to play on players who happen to like those planes.

As always, will be fixed in the update. Anton just confirmed it'll affect other planes as well, so maybe B&Z will become a possibility. At least more than it is now.

So, does BoP have RPM control, or is it "auto". Apparently fo the Merlin engined P-51, it is both important and weird:

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

Yes when I saw the data about the 109k having much higher top airspeed than the p-51 especially at high alt, I was a bit shocked myself. Still, it sure is nice to see a console serious sim, one that is much more realistic than those other arcady versions ( Blazing Angels, etc). Also it's nice to see one of the developers allowed to converse with you on these issues in the game. That is extremely rare, especially on console games. Well, I will play out the game and hope for the best on a DLC patch in the coming months. Prefereably a free DLC to fix issues :)

Before finding itself in the reflector sites of a Spitfire and going down in a nice big fireball?

fixed :D

Now its fixed

fixed again :P

Fixed once again in the intrests of the people.

fixed even more :D

RE:Fixed
Subject:Fixing
Dear FOZ 1983
I hope the surgested changes meet with your aproval.
Cheers
Vulcan607

Impossible. The Yak-3 would completely out roll the Spitfire, or Hurricane anyday. Their constant need for having guns in the wings, just drops their roll rate, and the Yak could just roll or nose down into a dive without worry. Then again, the Spitfire/Hurricane would probably lose the Yak-3 due to lousy visibility in the cockpit. Unlike the Yak-3 pilot which could keep a keen eye on the Spitfire/Hurricane, due to the great visibility. :D

You missed the part where the Yak got shot down in a fireball.

Here goes :roll:

incoming!

No I didn't. You missed the part where the Yak-3 pilot spotted the Spitfire/Hurricane before it could get a shot because of the superior visibility, and quick handling of the controls. That's why it didn't go down in a fire ball. Now on the other hand, the Spitifre/Hurricane going down in a fireball, that's more common. :cool:

@Seraph: It's all in good fun of course. ;)

Er you missed the bit where Britain and the USSR were allies so this situation wouldnt occour. But if it did then R.J. Mitchels eliptical winged wonder would have won.
All in the name of fun.
Hang on didnt the Bubble cockpit Spitfire have fantastic visibility except that area covered by the Merlin

Oh yeah..... :P But if it did occur, then I'm sure that a Mr. Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev's incredible rolling and turning planes, would have won. ;) Eliptical wings, put to much drag on a plan trying to roll and turn fast/hard. But short and skinny wings, do just the trick. :D :P

Fun, fun, fun

Surely at a higher altitude the lack of wing area and therefore lift the yaks would be a sitting soviet ducky.

Fun Fun Fun

Ah, but no Soviet pilot would be dumb enough to fly at a higher altitude than their usual preference of 10,000ft (whatever it is in kilometers as well.) Usually you'd have a hard time finding a Yak at 15,000ft or 20,000.

Anyway, I gotta get back. Challenge you later. LOL

Ah you never know im sure there must have been some who did.
Ok i look forward to it.

HAHAHAHA, i love this forum!!

Soviet, do you remember that little "story" we started off, with the yak being over england and meeting the hurricanes? then turning into all out war? haha.

Between us all we talk some shit. :P

As long as it's friendly, and no one starts getting their feelings hurt. It's all in fun. And of course I remember, the Yaks won because of superior Soviet numbers, but then it all went to hell because America dropped a nuke. lol

haha yeah thats the one! damn yanks eh!! ;)

I was of an understanding that it wasn't so much that the Spitfire wings were elliptical, as it was that they were very bendy compared to most high speed fighters of the time. The P-47 has the same elliptical platform, yet it has exceptionally rigid wings, and has high roll authority at most speeds. Until the P-51 came out it was the fastest rolling USAAF fighter*.

On the subject of a hypothetical war between Britain/US vrs the Soviet Union (which could easily have happened if not for the Bomb), I suspect there would have been two major air theaters so to speak. One of them would have been the ground war in Eastern Europe, which would have been dominated by low level ground attack, and the Siberian campaign(s), which would have been dominated by high altitude strategic bombing targeted against the Soviet production centers. Thinking about it, there would probably be a similar campaign against their oil production centers as well, but I don't really remember where those were.

I expect the Spitfire would only see action in the ground war side, simply due to its range issues, so yes, Soviet Ace is probably right that the spits would be mixing it up low with the Russian fighters.

Over in the Siberian front, it would be P-51's and B-29's at 8-10km. The only VVS fighters with good performance at that altitude are the MiG-9, the Yak-15 (which I'm a bit skeptical of), and the Yak-3 VK-107. The MiG-9 has the firepower to handle B-29's, with the gun gas ingestion problem fixed. The Yak-3 VK-107 really doesn't, and the Yak-15 is light on the firepower too. I think a lot of it would come down to how quickly the Soviets could field the MiG-9 in large numbers.

The ground war would be a meat grinder, more so if the bombing campaign couldn't disable soviet production capacity, and, since it would have required the nonexistence of the bomb, would have meant a land invasion of Japan had been attempted, and had succeeded, which would have sapped the blazes out of any force that had participated in it. I don't even want to guess how that would turn out.

The upshot of all of this is, if the Spit was engaging Yaks, it would of necessity be at low altitude, since its range would limit it to supporting either the ground front, or depending against Soviet advances. All the high altitude fun would be over places like Siberia. Spits can't reach.

Harry Voyager

ONLY ONE MORE HOUR UNTIL I'M OUT OF THIS HELL HOLE OF A JOB!!!

Anyway, I like that idea you have Voyager. But there's one problem. The P-51s would probably be reverted to some either low level ground attacks or maybe some light bomber escort. But the main US fighter, would probably end up being the P-80 Shooting Star since it was the US variant to combat the Me262 if the war had lasted longer.

And the Yak-15 probably would have been put into major production, if something like this hypothesis had occurred, because at the time it was the only productive Soviet jet to be airborne. Then the MiG-15 would have probably been rushed into production faster, and replaced the unstable Yak-15 quick enough because the layer Yak-9s would be the fighters against Spitfires, and Mustangs (or whatever) while the MiG-15s would be used to combat the bombers, and P-80 Shooting Stars which wouldn't be much of a match against the MiG-15. But the air battles would be interesting to see. IF only Il-2:1946 had MiG-15s and P-80s in it. That would be SWEET.

Also, I think the oil fields your thinking of, are the oil fields at Baku. Which Hitler was going for during WW2.

Why does nobody ever mention the British Jets of Mr Whittle!

Its the American way, my friend.

http://www.silkscreen-printing.net/2...m-dead-250.jpg

I did acctualy start choking on my cup of tea at this i found it that amusing!:grin:

huh, what was funny about it?

I dont know i think its just the way its presented.
one simple line followed by that slogan i dunno just something funny about it.

ITS F*CKIN FACT DUUUUUUUUUUDE!


Ok I'm gonna chill now, obviously there is nothing for me to do at work.:evil::cool::eek::rolleyes::confused::-P:mad::):(:grin::!::-x:cool:

Exactly.

Alright. We'll add some British Vampires, Meteors, and maybe even some of those badass looking Hunters!!! I like the Hunter the best out of all them. ;)

Thank you i can fly happy now.
HANG ON what about my beloved EE Lightning!

Those aren't very good. And would probably need some cover from Hunters or Vampires? But that's no problem with MiG-15s, they always like bait. ;)

YOU SIR unhand my Lightning!

the electric lightning was a true "all british" aircraft and was described by it pilots as "being strapped to a rocket" or something along those lines. A magnificent piece of machinery, and even you as a soviet lover have to admire it.

Then theirs the hawker hunter (hawker make all the best planes dont you think?)... my personnal fav as the greatest jet ever! it just looks great and flies even better. a truley remarkable piece of kit.

i actually agree,

Ive always thought the 'Hunter' looked like a mini Vulcan from the front :-)

the hunter must be nuetral as a jet that "just looks great"

forget performance etc, just going on looks for now! i think its pretty damn sexy lol :P i also like the look of the F16 fighting falcon and F14, the SU33 looks pretty beefy to, especially in that light blue camo it has!!

yea the F-16 is a pretty plane, but the F-14 and SU33 are more "Get The F*** Out Of My Way!" types of planes. i.e. 'Just dont mess'

I prefer the Su-35 Flanker-E. Check out this SWEEET video I found while sitting on my ass here at work.

Su-35 Maneuvers

Don't know all that much about planes, so question: Why does the plane above have those two little wings infront of the main wings? Is it for stability?

Yes. The "little wings in front" are called Canards and rather have the elevator's behind the wings. They just put them in front because it adds stability, and also makes the plane a hell of a lot more maneuverable (as you can see the crazy stunts in the video). There are other EU fighters, like the Eurofighter and even a Swedish multi-roll fighter which they used canards.

@FOZ: Yes, I do like the Hawker Hunter a lot. It's probably my favorite British 50s fighter, and early British jet fighter as well. Would have been an interesting match up against a MiG-15bis?

Some crazy stunts right there!

Thats one hell of a pilot

oh, and what a plane!

Still choose the EF over it tho :-P

Hmmm i dont know. As much as i like the hunter its a big plane, i think the mig could maybe have this one!

The hunter was a great ground attack jet, switching to this role when the lightning came into RAF service.

hunter VS mig15 i would prob take the mig.

Hunter is roughly 10ft longer, yet alot faster.

they both have roughly the same service ceiling to.

Not sure about guns not rockets/missiles) on the mig but the hunter carried 4 x30mm cannons in the belly/nose.



Would be a good fight to see!

I'd like to lend my voice to the merits of the English Electric Lightning as well, shes a beaut'. How cool would it be to have some air combat sim action on that late fifties generation of powerhouse air superiority gunfighters like the Lightning, Crusader and Mig-19?

would be fun!!

the use of early day missiles, but also still the dogfights!

could work.