The NACA profiles used on the P-51 work for wings the size of a full scale P-51. They will work less well on a 1/4 scale model. The difference due to Reynolds number difference can probably be calculated by an AE.

During takeoffs are you keeping wings level with side-stick (aileron)?

There are wireless network devices with outdoor line of sight range 1 mile for about $35 ea full retail. They have 6 10-bit analog inputs to read sensors or instruments or stick axes and send the results. They have 8 digital outputs to turn things on and off.
You can control more than 1 plane from the same ground station if it's got a PC hooked to it. Even use PC game controllers.
You can get feedback from the plane, it has a wireless node and even its own I/O. How about a pitot sensor and a slip ball and gyro/accelerometer data? Do you think you could fly better with that?


XBee Pro ZB has 250kbps speed, that's almost 5x 52k dialup. I remember when we'd go online IL2 and set net speed at 28k and get good games. Our big problem was lag and with local wireless that can be almost none. Transmission is light speed at a mile or less, not bouncing off satellites.

The Pro ZB is the middle column.
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/111/ds_xb...ules-19140.pdf

Sorry to resurrect this old dead horse. I can't help but to comment on this. But drawing conclusion on RL planes from scaled models is just not right. If P-47 is so great, why would USAAF and later USAF replace most of them with mustangs? You may say 51s have greater range, but what about P47n models? They have similar ranges. If 47s are better, then they should have built more 47s rather than 51s. How about the fact that P51s were even retained and used in Korean war? You may say they were primarily used in AG operations. Well, wasn't P47 (aircool engine) an evern better AG bird than liquid cooled pony? Yes, p51s were built for speed and range, but classifying them as interceptors is plainly wrong. Have you seen any airforce use high speed interceptors for AG operations?

The F-104 comes to mind.

See if you can get Sensei to post about F-16's used for ground attack. He used to teach that.

P-47's were certainly high speed interceptors and equally certainly used for ground attack as were Corsairs, Typhoons and Tempests and FW190's.....

Once again, sorry about beating this old dead horse. I believe some of what horseback said and argued are valid points. I just don't buy the arguement that P51 is inferior to 109 and 190, and this plane won the war by sheer numerical suporiority and better pilots. Let me point out several fallacy of this arguement. First of all, allies won the airwar over Germany. That's a fact. There shouldn't be any "well, maybe.", "yeah, but" crap for this right? Ok, there are several factors contributing this victory: number, pilot, plane and tactics.

1. Number. Yes on paper, western allies is numerically stronger. But it doesn't necessrily mean in every battle, P51 outnumbered opponents vastly. There were many instances where P51s were outnumbered by attacking 109 and 190s. Also, as you may be aware from your gaming experience, big battles quickly disintegrated into smaller group battles, team battles and individial battles. At this point, superior overal number means nothing. Moreover, air combat is nothing like ground wars where armies of millions clash with each other and numbers have important impact. In air, number helps but to a much less extend. Convincing? no? Let's go on to the next point.

2. Pilot quality. By the time, USAAF entered the conflict, LW had already been a seasoned veteran for many years. They battled French, British, Poles and Russians and prevailed most of times. By the time big bomber operations started in Western E, LW had produced numerous aces. Just counted how many pilots who had 50+ kills and were still active at that point of time. Compared to LW, USAAF was a much younger force. You may say, oh americans had more fuel and they can train their pilots more thoroughly. I don't deny that. American's pilot training may be superior. But one hr of training in a peaceful world or even in a simulated environment is nothing compared to one hr of actual heated combat. Pilot learn their skills and gain experience in actual combats. Even big aces who had adequate training before going into the combat still fumbled in the cockpit the firs time they flew into actual war. It was years of war that forged aces like Eric Hartmann, not hundreds of hours training school. You may also argue that toward the end of war, attrition burned way cream of LW pilot cadre. It is somewhat valid, but all the way until the end of war, LW is still formidable force to be rekoned with. The big turkey shoot in pacific has never happened in western theater. Even at the battle of bulge, LW still put up a tuff fite for western allies. It's a testiment of the quality of LW pilots.

3. Planes. Ok let's say for now P51 is shit compared to 109 and 190. Ok if 109 and 190 are so superior and their pilots are skilled, then why would P51 have much greater kill ratio? In ETO alone, the plane had 4950 kills vs 2500 losses (to all causes, enemy actions, operational mishaps etc). How come LW didn't pull the same performance on this plane as what they did when facing swarms of I-16s at the beginning of Russian campaign? If you have a numerical superior, but qualitatively inferior force (ie inferior equipment and less experienced personnel), you are bound to have higher loss ratio. But the fact doesn't reflect that. Look at russians. Russian beat LW in numbers especially later in the war, but they also suffered higher losses. Also, be mindful, most battles that P51 fought were fighter vs fighter fites. Not like battle of britain, there are no juicy fat bombers to chew on.

4. Tactics. German tactics were bad? Inferior? You tell me? By 1943, they had gone on war for 3+ years and they didn't know what they were doing?

Taken all together, let's look at the pic that IL2 painted for us in a real combat scenario. On the morning of a summer day in early 1944, a group of heavy B-17s escorted by p51s entered German aerospace. Suddenly they were attacked by a group of 109s. Jimmy, the number 4 of the p51 flight, was on his first combat mission. Suddently he found himself right behind a 109. Excited and eager to grab the kill, Jimmy quickly moved stick to bring the gun sight onto the target. "Oh, crap, why my nose is wobbling all over the place" "shit, I forgot trimming this sucker". "let's see. Trim Trim Trim. Nose down trim trim, still wobbling. Oh right, ball not centered, 5 degrees of rudder to the right." All the while Jimmy's left hand reached down to his trim controls, Hans, the pilot of 109 number 1, flew leisurely towards the bombers. Suddenly, his plane screamed at him, "bandit 6 oclock, break" Hans, lighting a ciggerate, "what can I do? The other guy had more hours of training school than me" "I am green" "We can do it," said 109, "I am a superior plane. We can outclimb, outrun and outturn this guy." "Ok, outclimb, how? Tell me. which nobs?" Hans snuffed his ciggerate, apparently excited. About the same time, Jimmy finally trimmed out his p51. Target deadly centered on his sight. "Fire", he pressed trigger. His 6x50 cal peashooters started spitting out a large number of beans. Immediately, he saw the effect of his shooting. Debris and paints flew off 109's wings and fueslage. But 109 just won't die and target getting smaller and smaller in Jimmy's sight. Suddenly, a red light shone on his instrument panel. "overheat?" "Why am I overheating?" "oh crap, prop pitch and rad". While, Jimmy fumbling with his overheating issue, Hans' 109 number 1 finally had enuf. "know what? This Hans dude sucks." "I am gonna get him bail out" "Getting shot at by shitty plane like p51 is an insult" It nosed over into a dive. "I am damaged and crashing. u better get out" said 109. Hans quickly released his belts and jumped out. Now the pilotless 109 gained a new lease of life. It pushed throttle into overdrive and engaged boost. Speed built up rapidly. A quick sharp turn 109 is behind Jimmy's plane. Jimmy tried to follow, but his p51 threatened to stall out of control. More power and engine complaint too hot. Now the p51 is dead center in 109's gun sight. "Gotcha" 109 bursted into a big smile. All guns fired away. 109's aim is true, there is no wobbling. Everything is stable. 2 hits, P51 bulching smoke from a dead engine and right wing broke off. "I told ya. Stang is shit." 109 bursted into a laughter. "Bang" something hit the 109. a couple of trcers flew by. 109 looked back, "shit, a group of at least a hundred more p51s. "Man, these people just won't quit. I am going home" 109 pitched nose over and accelerated away from the enemies. The leader of this new group of p51s is the cousin of Jimmy and also named Jimmy. Let's call this guy Jimmy 2. Jimmy 2 yelled in his radio,"Gentlemen, enemy turned tail. We won". Back at the base, general of the 8th airforce was smoking a cigar, "Tom u got the report yet?" "Yes sir. 10 kills and 49 losses." "What is the mater with you." general smacked down on young Tom's head."Have you graduated from you high school?" "It's 10kills and 4.9 losses." "How could we have 4.9 losses?" Tom rubbing his head. "Make it 5 then, u idiot." In his Berlin base, Hitler was reading a translated American newspaper. "What? 2-1 losses?" "Gorling you ruined my LW." "Mein fuhrer." Gorling grunted, "Please allow me to explain this complicated math." " They had more planes, more fuel, and better trained pilots...." "oh, enuf, we have better planes." "Yeah, but..." "enuf, enuf... I had enuf. U ruined my LW. Without LW, we are gonna lose." "I won't see myself under trial for war crimes." Hitler dropped the newspaper and pulled his lugger. "Bang" a shot thru his temper....
This is a story how shitty planes and vast numbers can win the war.

I know P-47s were used for AG attacks. As a matter of fact, p47s were used in AG operations more frequently than P51s. What I am arguing is how come they never picked p47 for Korea if p47 is better than p51?

Is this what happens when YOU fly the P-51? I get a better experience, and I'm probably just an above-average pilot in that plane.

The 109 is one of the easiest to fly and most stable to shoot with planes in the game, and the P-51 isn't. Once you get good with the P-51 though, you'll be able to out-fly and eventually shoot down any 109, even the G-2 and the K-4.

While P-47s were generally considered much better suited to ground attack than the Mustang, there weren't any in Japan when the festivities in Korea began, and the limited number of reasonably well-maintained Jugs were located in the US and Europe (where, if Stalin had decided to strike while the British and Americans were distracted by Korea) they would be desperately needed. Additionally, the Jug needed more maintenance time per flight hour and consumed a great deal more aviation grade fuel (yeah, we had plenty back then, but most of it had to be shipped from US West Coast refineries and that still cost a lot of money, and meant that some other needed items would have had to wait for shipping space).

In any case, the USAF was making a wholesale transition to jets; the Mustang was supposed to be replaced by F-80s and F-84s 'in two weeks, be sure' throughout the Korean conflict.

cheers

horseback

And historically, the Mustang was one of the easiest to fly (and land, in direct contrast to the 109) and stable to shoot with of all WWII aircraft.

The in-game trim requirements are much too high in all late-war US fighters; in the case of the Mustang, you need to make rudder and elevation adjustments (not an adjustment) for every 10kph of speed variation, which is more than 6kph more often than the RL P-40 actually needed (and the P-40 was easily the biggest trim hog in the US inventory by every account). Obviously that is several times more often than the in-game versions of the P-40.

The only thing that is consistent about the 'ball' in the game's Mustangs is that if you are flying anything but straight and level at constant speed, it will be wrong; switching from cockpit view to Wonder Woman, the Turn & Bank indicator will usually be contradicted by the vector ball, and the error is not consistent the way most other aircraft instruments are depicted--always to one side or the other--it can go either way, and it seems more a matter of the luck of the draw than the direction you are moving or how abruptly you are changing direction.

People who have mastered the Mustang in-game have done so through long hours of practice, many, many more than most other aircraft require and inversely proportional to the learning curve of the real thing in the context of high performance single engine aircraft of that era. While I recognize that effort and skill, and absolutely agree that you should be proud of it, it should never have been necessary.

It certainly isn't realistic.

cheers

horseback

The new P-40 flight model requires plenty of trim now... more like the test reports although I'm not sure if by the numbers or not. Hopefully if the Mustang FM gets a once over we'll see that need to re-trim diminish and it'll be a more pilot friendly type than it is right now.

I will say that it is very easy to land in-game. One of the easiest in its year range for sure. I still have some difficulty fighting in it which is another matter.