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-   -   Are slats shy ? (http://forum.fulqrumpublishing.com/showthread.php?t=27531)

IvanK 12-01-2011 08:19 PM
Slat operation (or lack of early enough operation) has been snagged with the devs a while a go. That find in the FM probably explains why we are seeing what we are.

the Dutchman 12-02-2011 09:16 AM
i dunno about slats,but sluts sure aren't................

TomcatViP 12-03-2011 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvanK (Post 366337)
Slat operation (or lack of early enough operation) has been snagged with the devs a while a go. That find in the FM probably explains why we are seeing what we are.
I made an offline test with an E4 today (long time I did not hve tried) and the slats seems to function on that model. I was able to turn 360 with the slats opened.

The E4 is also much easier to handle in high G moves. It might be that the last patch has introduced some significant changes.

Varra in what plane's FM did you found those lines of Codes ?

Khamsin 12-11-2011 08:11 AM
"Hand off the throttle, select FLUG on the undercarriage selector, The mechanical indicators motor up very quickly, and you feel and hear a "clonk, clonk" as the gear comes home. A quick look at the wings, and you can see that the slats - fully out - are starting to creep in as the airspeed increases and the angle of attack is reduced"

'Flying the Bf109' - by Mark Hanna, "Fighters, the Best of Flight Journal:, Summer 2001.

From all I've read, I believe that the slats on the 109E should be free to move through intermediate positions, just like its currently modelled in IL-2.

The ONLY references I've ever heard to slats "banging in and out" involve either hard maneuvering of the aircraft (thus rapidly transitioning through AoA) or getting in the slipstream of a large bomber (also large AoA transitions).

Gentle movements of the stick in a turn, or holding pitch constant whilst increasing airspeed (thus slowly decreasing AoA) should have the slats moving/creeping in and out.

Varrattu 12-18-2011 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomcatViP (Post 366897)
Varra in what plane's FM did you found those lines of Codes ?
Bf-109E-3.fmd

PHP Code:
;
; Messerschmitt Bf. 109 E-3 Flightmodel
;

;
[Aircraft]
;

Wingspan            9.867 m
Length              8.738 m

;
[Systems]
;

Propulsion          Engine Daimler-Benz DB601A Propellor VDM Generic
Hydraulics          Source Engine0 Pressure 100 bar Reservoir 8.5 pt
Electrics           Source Engine0 Voltage 25.1 V BatteryCapacity 54 Ah GeneratorOutput 650 sW at 2000 RPM

LandingFlaps        Mechanical Extends 25 sec
Undercarriage       Retractable Hydraulic Extends 5.0 sec Folds Outwards OperatesThrough 320 kmh EmergencySystem PneumaticDischarge SafetyLock Nil SpringsStiffness Main 0.6 Tail 0.6 MaxDragEquivalentS 0.7 m2
WheelBrakes         Hydraulic Efficiency 1.5
Fenster             Mechanical Opens 0.5 sec
PitotHeater         Electrical
LeadingEdgeSlats    Mechanical Automatic Move 0.1 sec ResponseRange 15.0 to 15.01 deg

Hatch0              Mechanical Motion Type SwingingForward Time 2.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec
Hatch1              Mechanical Motion Type Nil Time 0.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec

;
[Controls]
;

Aileron             Slider Threshold 340 kmh
Elevator            Slider Threshold 400 kmh
Rudder              Slider Threshold 400 kmh

AileronTrim         Nil Default 0.017
ElevatorTrim        Slider Range -0.5 to 0.5 Default 0.25
RudderTrim          Nil Default 0.06

EngineThrottle      Slider
EnginePitch         Rocker
EngineMagneto       Switch M0 M1 M2 M12
EngineRadiator      Rocker
EngineOilRadiator   Slider
EngineMix           Toggle
EngineWEP           PushButton

LandingFlaps        Rocker
Undercarriage       Switch Up Neutral Down
UndercarriageEmergency ExpendableSwitch Close Open
WheelBrakes         Slider
Fenster             Toggle
AltimeterPinion     Rocker Range 795 to 1040 Default 1000 mbar
Puppet0PriPitLight  Slider
Puppet0SightLight   Slider
NavSecFrequency     Rocker
Timer0              CyclicSwitch
AcemakerSight       Dimmer Toggle
TankSelector0       Toggle Off On Parked 0 Cruise 1 Selection 0 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second Selection 1 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second + FuelTank 0 to Engine 0
HydraulicsHandPump  PushButton
PitotHeater         Toggle
Timer0              CyclicSwitch

Puppet0Hatch        Toggle Close Open Selection 0 Closes Hatch 0 Selection 1 Opens Hatch 0
Puppet0Jettison     ExpendableSwitch Off On Selection 1 Sheds Hatch 0 Hatch 1

;
[Instruments]
;

EngineFuelPress     Hydraulic Range 0 to 2 kgcm2
EngineOilPress      Hydraulic Range 0 to 10 kgcm2
EngineOilTemp       Electrical Range 0 to 120 C
EngineWaterTemp     Electrical Range 0 to 120 C
EngineManifoldPress Mechanical Range 0.6 to 1.8 bar
EngineRPM           Electrical Range 600 to 3600 RPM
EnginePropPitch     Mechanical Range 0 to 12 hour
Speedometer         Mechanical Range 0 to 800 kmh Pitot Kollsman
Altimeter           Mechanical Dimension m
MagneticCompass     Mechanical JamAngle 90.0 deg
SlipIndicator       Mechanical Amplitude 12.0 deg
TurnIndicator       Mechanical Source Primary NominalTurnTime 2 min
FuelReserve         Electrical Range 0 to 400 litre
ArtificialHorizon   Mechanical Source Primary Pitch Range -45 to 45 deg Roll Range -181 to 181 deg

GyroFeed            Primary Electrical Secondary Nil

;
[Mass]
;

Empty               2060 kg
TakeOff             2600 kg
Fuel                300 kg
FuelTanks           Aluminum 100 kg Aluminum 200 kg
FuelFillingOrder    Tank 0 Tank 1

;
[Squares]
;

Wing                16.4 m2
Aileron             1.1 m2
Flap                2.0 m2
Stabilizer          1.90 m2
Elevator            1.20 m2
Keel                1.00 m2
Rudder              1.10 m2

;
[Arm]
;

Aileron             2.03 m
Flap                2.04 m
Stabilizer          5.15 m
Keel                5.18 m
Elevator            5.35 m
Rudder              5.45 m
Wing_In             1.25 m
Wing_Mid            2.50 m
Wing_Out            4.10 m
GCenter             0.05 m
GCenterZ            0.00 m
GC_AOA_Shift        0.45 m
GC_Flaps_Shift      0.20 m
GC_Gear_Shift       0.05 m
Wing_V              1.5

;
[Params]
;

SpinCxLoss          0.06
SpinCyLoss          0.03

Vmin                170.0 kmh
Vmax                470.0 kmh
VmaxAllowed         750.0 kmh
VmaxH               560.0 kmh at 4500.0 m
VminFLAPS           130.0 kmh
VmaxFLAPS           250.0 kmh
Vz_climb            20.0 ms
V_climb             270.0 kmh
T_turn              25.0 sec
V_turn              340.0 kmh
K_max               13.0
FlapsMult           1.0
FlapsAngSh          10.0

RangeAbility        480 km

SensYaw             0.6
SensPitch           0.7
SensRoll            0.32

;
[Polares]
;

lineCyCoeff         0.091
AOAMinCx_Shift      0.2
Cy0_0               0.15
AOACritH_0          18.0
AOACritL_0          -15.0
CyCritH_0           1.3
CyCritL_0           -0.64417434
CxMin_0             0.0275
parabCxCoeff_0      6.2E-4
Cy0_1               0.55
AOACritH_1          17.0
AOACritL_1          -19.0
CyCritH_1           1.62
CyCritL_1           -0.7
CxMin_1             0.11
parabCxCoeff_1      8.7E-4

slatAOACritHInc     3.0
slatCyCritHInc      1.3
slatParabCxCoeffInc 0.8E-4

parabAngle          5.0
Decline             0.010
maxDistAng          35.0 

Bf-109E-4.fmd

PHP Code:
;
; Messerschmitt Bf. 109 E-3 Flightmodel
;

;
[Aircraft]
;

Wingspan            9.867 m
Length              8.738 m

;
[Systems]
;

Propulsion          Engine Daimler-Benz DB601A_WM_Komandgerat Propellor VDM Generic
Hydraulics          Source Engine0 Pressure 100 bar Reservoir 8.5 pt
Electrics           Source Engine0 Voltage 25.1 V BatteryCapacity 54 Ah GeneratorOutput 650 sW at 2000 RPM

LandingFlaps        Mechanical Extends 25 sec
Undercarriage       Retractable Hydraulic Extends 5.0 sec Folds Outwards OperatesThrough 320 kmh EmergencySystem PneumaticDischarge SafetyLock Nil SpringsStiffness Main 0.6 Tail 0.6 MaxDragEquivalentS 0.7 m2
WheelBrakes         Hydraulic Efficiency 1.5
Fenster             Mechanical Opens 0.5 sec
PitotHeater         Electrical
LeadingEdgeSlats    Mechanical Automatic Move 0.1 sec ResponseRange 15.0 to 15.01 deg

Hatch0              Mechanical Motion Type SwingingForward Time 2.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec
Hatch1              Mechanical Motion Type Nil Time 0.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec

;
[Controls]
;

Aileron             Slider Threshold 340 kmh
Elevator            Slider Threshold 400 kmh
Rudder              Slider Threshold 400 kmh

AileronTrim         Nil Default 0.017
ElevatorTrim        Slider Range -0.5 to 0.5 Default 0.25
RudderTrim          Nil Default 0.06

EngineThrottle      Slider
EnginePitch         Rocker
EngineMagneto       Switch M0 M1 M2 M12
EngineRadiator      Rocker
EngineOilRadiator   Slider
EngineMix           Toggle
EngineWEP           PushButton

LandingFlaps        Rocker
Undercarriage       Switch Up Neutral Down
UndercarriageEmergency ExpendableSwitch Close Open
WheelBrakes         Slider
Fenster             Toggle
AltimeterPinion     Rocker Range 795 to 1040 Default 1000 mbar
Puppet0PriPitLight  Slider
Puppet0SightLight   Slider
NavSecFrequency     Rocker
Timer0              CyclicSwitch
AcemakerSight       Dimmer Toggle
TankSelector0       Toggle Off On Parked 0 Cruise 1 Selection 0 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second Selection 1 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second + FuelTank 0 to Engine 0
HydraulicsHandPump  PushButton
PitotHeater         Toggle
Timer0              CyclicSwitch

Puppet0Hatch        Toggle Close Open Selection 0 Closes Hatch 0 Selection 1 Opens Hatch 0
Puppet0Jettison     ExpendableSwitch Off On Selection 1 Sheds Hatch 0 Hatch 1

;
[Instruments]
;

EngineFuelPress     Hydraulic Range 0 to 2 kgcm2
EngineOilPress      Hydraulic Range 0 to 10 kgcm2
EngineOilTemp       Electrical Range 0 to 120 C
EngineWaterTemp     Electrical Range 0 to 120 C
EngineManifoldPress Mechanical Range 0.6 to 1.8 bar
EngineRPM           Electrical Range 600 to 3600 RPM
EnginePropPitch     Mechanical Range 0 to 12 hour
Speedometer         Mechanical Range 0 to 800 kmh Pitot Kollsman
Altimeter           Mechanical Dimension m
MagneticCompass     Mechanical JamAngle 90.0 deg
SlipIndicator       Mechanical Amplitude 12.0 deg
TurnIndicator       Mechanical Source Primary NominalTurnTime 2 min
FuelReserve         Electrical Range 0 to 400 litre
ArtificialHorizon   Mechanical Source Primary Pitch Range -45 to 45 deg Roll Range -181 to 181 deg

GyroFeed            Primary Electrical Secondary Nil

;
[Mass]
;

Empty               2060 kg
TakeOff             2600 kg
Fuel                300 kg
FuelTanks           Aluminum 100 kg Aluminum 200 kg
FuelFillingOrder    Tank 0 Tank 1

;
[Squares]
;

Wing                16.4 m2
Aileron             1.1 m2
Flap                2.0 m2
Stabilizer          1.90 m2
Elevator            1.20 m2
Keel                1.00 m2
Rudder              1.10 m2

;
[Arm]
;

Aileron             2.03 m
Flap                2.04 m
Stabilizer          5.15 m
Keel                5.18 m
Elevator            5.35 m
Rudder              5.45 m
Wing_In             1.25 m
Wing_Mid            2.50 m
Wing_Out            4.10 m
GCenter             0.05 m
GCenterZ            0.00 m
GC_AOA_Shift        0.45 m
GC_Flaps_Shift      0.20 m
GC_Gear_Shift       0.05 m
Wing_V              1.5

;
[Params]
;

SpinCxLoss          0.06
SpinCyLoss          0.03

Vmin                170.0 kmh
Vmax                470.0 kmh
VmaxAllowed         750.0 kmh
VmaxH               560.0 kmh at 4500.0 m
VminFLAPS           130.0 kmh
VmaxFLAPS           250.0 kmh
Vz_climb            20.0 ms
V_climb             270.0 kmh
T_turn              25.0 sec
V_turn              340.0 kmh
K_max               13.0
FlapsMult           1.0
FlapsAngSh          10.0

RangeAbility        480 km

SensYaw             0.6
SensPitch           0.7
SensRoll            0.32

;
[Polares]
;

lineCyCoeff         0.091
AOAMinCx_Shift      0.2
Cy0_0               0.15
AOACritH_0          18.0
AOACritL_0          -15.0
CyCritH_0           1.3
CyCritL_0           -0.64417434
CxMin_0             0.0275
parabCxCoeff_0      6.2E-4
Cy0_1               0.55
AOACritH_1          17.0
AOACritL_1          -19.0
CyCritH_1           1.62
CyCritL_1           -0.7
CxMin_1             0.11
parabCxCoeff_1      8.7E-4

slatAOACritHInc     3.0
slatCyCritHInc      1.3
slatParabCxCoeffInc 0.8E-4

parabAngle          5.0
Decline             0.010
maxDistAng          35.0 

TomcatViP 12-21-2011 04:02 PM
Thx Varra. It seems that as there is no diff I might hve been the victim of my own convictions. :grin:

Varrattu 12-21-2011 10:05 PM
A Bf-109E-1.fmd does not exist ...


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