I love the way people blame UBISoft and US for everything... Oh, and Steam service will be the next devil!

Gimme a break... Freetrack works in this thing, at least? Any russian customer can say something about it?

The filter is on now,thats why the game is screwed.Hopefully they can fix it,but for now in the west we have to live with it or not.
The filter on the Russian version will be removed within days.

To me this is a late punch to the gut.

I mean took the wind right out of me. No offence, I do respect the hard working men that develop this product but I have to make a decision. And I've made it.

Until this is resolved and there is an option to turn on what I want on or off what I want off I will not let politics, lawyers or any game company decide what is best for me. I smoke. I drink. I love salt. I eat red meat. I love vegetarians since less meat eaters only means lower prices of meat. I cuss. I will probably die some day. But if I'm spending my money on something I want what I want. Otherwise I will just go do something else.

Thank you for ordering from UBIShop. At your request, or at the request of the fulfiller and/or the manufacturer, the following was canceled from your order.

Product Name Qty Ordered Reason for Cancellation
IL-2 Sturmo 1 Other


Your Order Information:
Order ID: 872*******
Order Date: January 20, 2011
Shopper ID: 7546*******

no the "issue" has been caused BY the filter... the filter is the FPS killer...

they are working on a fix to regain the FPS / remove the filter...

Now where is that Russian dictionary I had laying around...

Wanna marry me? :D

If it isn't playable why bother? http://goo.gl/6NHxZ

All you need to do is go to the Sukhoi forum,and let google translate the forum from Russian into English or anything else.
Its not perfect,but it works well enough.

Not sure you can use google translate ingame...

I was referring to the Russian version of the game, not Russian forum. ;)

Oh stop whining you bunch of pathetic crybabies!

I know for a fact that as soon as this game hits the shelves I'm going to buy it and have a whale of a time. Regardless of the epilepsy filter.

Do you think Oleg & crew are reading this forum and saying "Noooo, he's cancelled his pre-order! Noooooo! We have failed and must make amends somehow!"?


T.

Oh, ok lol!
Wonder if I should buy a Russian dictionary as well!

Well I have relatives in Russia, who will gladly buy and post me some copies of the Russian verssion. So i guess i am ok.

Who wants one?

Fixes are for bugs. A filter isn't a bug; it's a deliberate layer and unfortunate processing overhead. Surely it'll be like playing while recording with FRAPS?
If they can't remove the filter legally or make it optional, I doubt they will be able to somehow increase the FPS like magic without degrading the way it was meant to be seen.
Sounds like it not only hits the FPS but really spoils the image also. The code will already be optimized as far as possible. We all want this game to run and look as good as originally intended. That's why we all dash home each Friday to see what's happening, today especially. We've been captivated by the prospect of what is to come for many years.
I know there's a lot of upset and confusion in this forum right now but my main sympathies go to the guys in the team. They'll be gutted at the moment and I hope they all continue on, including Oleg. We don't just want the game; we want the game as intended with the whole team leading it's evolution for years to come. Please stick with it Oleg and Co.

@StonedRaider

If i can patch it to english or german ill take one!

The price for more safety is less freedom!!!

in

From Luthier's post:

Propellers, muzzle flashes, smoke puffs, explosions, falling bombs, flying or taxiing between buildings, sun shining through canopy framework, etc, they were all causing potentially seizure-inducing flashes.

Very strange list - falling bombs? Taxying between buildings? How come these things in IL2 didn't cause any problems? How come these things things don't cause problems in other games?

Did all the game developers employed to create CloDo have epileptic seizures during the development process? What about the public allowed on the game at Igromir?

All in all rather peculiar.

RedToo.

semantics!

All I know is the Luthier gave his word that they will "correct" (is that better for you?) this issue. And I trust that they will do it in a way that will compromise the look of the game as little as possible.

His promise is good enough for me.

Weird. As far as I know, every game comes with a message alerting about 'Video game-induced seizures', and that's all. It's all about you.

Once you are aware about the potential problem, no legal issues will arise.

Are the "special effects" in CoD so different to the point to cause all these problems?

All the games i own from Russia have an option for what language you want to install it in. Ok they are 2-3 years old, but i don't see why this option would not be available. Otherwise there are always comunity made mods/patches that can traslate your game to a certain language.

So i'll enquire when this can be done, but it will definatley be after the 31st of March for the Europe release.

I'm sure they're not worried one bit. But I wont be worried one bit about when it will be fixed either.

Well, the real lesson from this is for Ilya. Dropping comments like the first ones on the night of the pre-release was something you:

A/ Gained a lot of respect for - after all it was not your fault but Ubisofts!

B/ This whole story started another storm in the water glass and you MAYBE lost a bunch of "customers" that have been following the game for six years but now cancelled their orders just hearing this bable-fished rumor!

C/ Lost a big percentage of the REAL customers that will finance your further development of the series as the rumor of the anti epilepsy scheme will spread all over the world like the fire here in the forums.

My vote is at B if this is handled correctly.

Just make it work and delay the release in the rest of the world until you have acceptable frame rate with medium settings on a decent midrange computer bought last year. Not having that is something the reviewers will never accept, even though I will accept if until version 1.08 like I did with RoF.

If an 8Gb Core i7 with a GTX460/HD 5870 does not run the game decently you will crash in flames when the big reviewers put their teeth in this game... They don't care who's fault it is, and neither do the potential REAL customers. If making the anti epilepsy code optional is necessary then make 1C and Ubisoft understand that - or work around it.

Gimme the russian version with english language for christ's sake !

A delay is the most reasonable thing to do now. There are already cancellations all over the place, just browse through various flight sim related forums. It will hurt the sales, no question about that.

fixed. :grin:

It's not that simple I fear, someone unlucky or evil could claim they disabled it but their kid reached the game while they went to the toilet and got a massive seizure ,causing injuries ,braindefects from lack of air or even death.
I can imagine a lawsuit could actually win if the game really does cause seizures all the time. If it happens 100x more often than on other games or movies a judge could rule the developer and publisher had knowledge of it and had an obligation to fix it beforehand. Especially in the USA i can see this happening ..and the EU isn't far behind in "customer protection" these days.


Sad times, but i'm convinced Maddox Studio's will work and work at this issue untill that woodcutters axe is just a stubby rubber toy.
I'm glad to keep my preorder ..and hopefully enjoy the game on release. Even if it's unplayable for a year I'll be happy to have supported Maddox in their time of need and hope they hang in there to eventually give us many many more years of releases.
Think we all (developers and fans equally) would hate it if this issue would mean the end of a beautiful, longlasting lovestory.


little snippet from the article linked earlier :
These voluntary warnings are not only ineffective in the case of consumers who don’t realise they are photosensitive. They may actually be putting off many people with epilepsy who are not even at risk.
This warning effectively discourages anyone with epilepsy from playing without the involvement of a GP or neurologist. This is despite the fact that only three to five per cent of people with epilepsy are photosensitive. The other 95 to 97 per cent of people with epilepsy are at no risk whatsoever – but may still be missing out.

Now I start to wonder how can I order the russian version??

This was translated on the UBI forums:

_____


The future of the project The Battle of Britain
Dear friends,

Thank you for your support. Please accept my personal apologies for the problems when you start the game. We worked in full all hands on deck for a long time, last month was even more hectic, and we had a little to the final cleaning of the product.

This is what the team will work in the coming days:

1. Anti-epilepsy will once and forever banished from the Russian version of the game . This adds up to 10 fps on older machines. You now can manually disable the filter - the instructions were given repeatedly.


posted by luthier here,

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1573025

So just a question.

How many people who flew the Beta at the game show we saw so many videos from were actually carted off to Hospital with Epileptic issues?

Seriously worried here re. the state of game release. Makes you wonder if the Epilepsy 'wrapper' was added to give a reason for poor performance?

Gutted but waiting to see what happens with the extra month before US release?

Here's hoping!

Cheers MP

Ok, this one really made me laugh :-P

I do not blame any of the devs that built this product I am not angry at all. Just very disappointed. I will buy it but only when it's ready for prime time. No pun intended but I do want a heart stopping experience.

The Russian forums sound very level-headed compared to ours. It's no wonder they got the game ahead of us here in North America.

Also, these forms belong to the 1C Company, don't they? If so, why are you working so hard to keep us all safe from epilepsy in CoD while allowing funny man "Biggs" to flash that icon in our faces without him getting a big 1C boot planted where it belongs?

Just one more thing, how disrespectful to go on a company's forums and tell them you cancelled your order followed with a long-winded spew of why we should care! What ever happened to just cancelling the order after saying nothing about it, ever?

P.S Why are these few (who already stated they are not going to buy your game) still here?? Most here are looking forward to your game CoD, so how long do we have to keep reading the trash talk about Ubisoft and your game? You do have Ubisoft selling your game for you, don't you? I though you Russians had more snap in your walk then this!

You said it all mate, this is really pathetic ... :rolleyes:

Thank you the explanation, Luthier.
Before now, I never knew that an epilepsy filter was applied to any game.
I only saw the "epilepsy warning" on the game box.
The only thing that I am left wondering is that since not everyone who will use Cliffs of Dover has epilepsy, and if the filter causes decreased performance, why not have the filter as an option?

I do agree that the pre-order cancellations are for sure real even though I can't understand how long time followers can be so short sighted and abandon MG in "their finest hour". The RAF lost in France but when pushed against the wall in Britain they delivered - in version 1.04 ;)

They just have to fix the stuttering which I am sure depend on a lof of things as I would be very surprised if the game was running at 50fps on a top notch single GPU rig while chasing 30 He 111:s over London with a squadron of Spitfires before this problem... And this engine MUST do that.

Those customers that have pre-ordered must be simmers, how else could they have heard of the game considering Ubisofts lack of advertising efforts on this title? And as Ubisoft sure must have known about the problems, the lack of a proper marketing campaign may have been very much a deliberate action. If they did not believe that they would get the game into a stable release state until late March - why put down a big advertising campaign? Postponing release dates is hardly something any gamer will be surprised about. Look at Diablo III, GTA 5, The Old Republic etc. The list is long.

And we even don't know if it was Ubisoft or 1C that put the pressure up. It is 1C that is the main publisher and they DID publish the game with stuttering problems that are now blamed on the anti epilepsy scheme pushed down the throat by Ubisoft (?) (if that is the main problem).... Have we heard anyone bashing 1C here? Maybe it is 1C that really has put the ultimatum up, no more money if you don't have an RC done before the first week of march... This time we mean ít. Someone has paid for the six years of development, and when gold platers like Oleg get free hands they can continue adding knobs and rivets for ages. Sorry to sound harsh but as a development manager myself for a team that is of about the same size as MG I have some experience of that myself.

Anyway - my pre-orders stays whatever the next storm in the water glass will be - and I wish the team good luck on getting the bugs squashed!


EDIT: In my BoB allegory above, is it really Ubisoft that is Germany and 1C that is Italy pushing them into the wall before being prepared? We don't know if it is the opposite :)

Your a plant.

Smoking is allowed in all of these countries, as is alcohol consumption, sky diving, motor bike riding, skate boards, snow boards.


But a FREAKING video game cannot just have a warning.
Please, there is no law about this, creepysoft just got on this band wagon because some epileptic found out during a game that he was epileptic.

There is no law about this in canada, the US, probebly not in the UK.
This is just absolute crap and the dev is saying what he has to say to pacify his distributor.
Its like all the crippling DRM that microsoft insisted be implemented in all vista video card drivers. The card manufactures took all the flack for being late with their drivers and the slow performance but it was all Microsoft putting the nanny state into the driver requirements that caused it.

Really hope they fix this before 31th.
Im tired of getting disappointed every time im looking forward to a game.
Archlor and APB got closed up after short time.

LOL Winger; thats what crossed my mind....all the puzzles are here...and we have painfull experience with "optimisations" in Rise Of Flight (and its still unsolved).....It would be easier for all if both smiling characters admit that they have problems whit optimisations and that we will need few years for PC`s which could handle their products in online battles....and then again....maybe it was UBI with their demand but he wont admit...who would know....nowadays nobody is 100% honest...shity times I say......

and just for the record..I might get "epilepsy" after trying the game with that stupid filter and bloomsih/blurish motion...But I think Ill just get drunk...

noooooo...aaarghhh

Ok, see, I realize the post-processing filter is one reason for bad performance. And I realize it'll eventually be removed as the mentioned individual issues are "addressed" one-by-one.


I have a problem with the need to address those issues in the first place.

To put it in simple terms: If the real situation has a flash and it's removed from game graphics because of some arbitrary epilepsy screening method saying it could trigger seizures, that's detrimental to the quality of the graphics of the game even if it runs at fluid 60 FPS on a five years old PC.

Flashes are part of reality, and removing flashes from simulation where they would be appropriate will reduce the realism factor of said situations.

Artificially degrading the quality of the effects for everyone just to appease some lobbyist group worried about seizures makes about as much sense as removing killing from first person shooters to appease Mr. Jack Thompson.

This is the main problem I have: Ubisoft's blanket policy on this matter. If they have this requirement as part of their quality assurance testing, then that quality assurance testing is misguided.

And if they categorically refuse to release games where it's possible to turn neutered anti-epileptic effects off in favour of more realistic effects, then that policy is a failure for a simulation game.

I'm not going to comment on speculation that this is just a smoke screen for bad performance etc. etc. What I want is a game with realistic portrayal of flight and associated plays of light and shadow, within reasonable limits of current hardware of course.

This filter thing, regardless of whose decision it was to apply it to the game, is not reasonable in my books. If it were voluntary, fine - but mandatory reduction of performance and quality, especially for a reason such as this is not something I could be happy with.


I'm not going to cancel my pre-order for this, however. I'll get the game, try it on my rig, and if it doesn't run properly I'll wait for patches to address relevant issues. I would, however, be tremendously disappointed if future patches don't fix the effects to satisfactory realistic levels.

I wish that somehow, at some point, the developers and players can both be satisfied with the game, that the developers find a way to deliver a version to the players that they originally intended it to be.


Well, I think I have said all I have to say about the subject at this time. I wish all the best to the developers in their quest to deliver a functional game to customers, and I'll be following the state of the game with great interest.

Meanwhile, while the problems are addressed, I can always return to the skies in IL-2 1946...

Considering the risk of having a seizure, strob lights should be outlawed... no more strob lights in clubs... nada... I'm calling my representative...

+1

It's all about the "collective" good for everyone. You see some people have more money so they take it from them and spread it around.

In school they give the first place through the last place a trophy. Equal for everyone let no one be left behind.

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

Just ditch Ubisoft already.

I would want one, please. London, UK here.

Hell if its got english capability it might be the way to go

Report:

To configure a Core i7 920 & 3.8Ghz, 3Gb RAM, 475GTX off antiepilepsii and cloud storage significantly improved FPS, until completely smooth and comfortable flight over the water with the maximum settings (just played the second mission, with a sufficiently large number of planes), 1600x900 and 8x anti-aliasing. All over the land is acceptable, with the exact same settings, except mikrofrizov.

Hooray!


Докладываю:

Для конфигурации Core i7 920 & 3.8Ghz, 3Gb RAM, 475GTX выключение антиэпилепсии и облачного хранения данных значительно улучшило ФПС, вплоть до абсолютно плавного и комфортного полёта над водой с максимальными настройками (только что отыграл вторую миссию, с достаточно большим количеством самолётов), 1600х900 и 8х сглаживанием. Над сушей всё вполне приемлемо, с точно такими же настройками, за исключением микрофризов.

Ура!



http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthrea...=1#post1573485

Thats encouraging.Plus 8xAA is a lot.How they got rid of the problem?Sorry to ask,I just didnt open that link.

Option to turn off. I dont have the issue u describe. Please:) just add a popup" warning, by turning off this option, 1C is in no way responsible for any medical conditions incurred by said gameplay. Thank you and happy hunting"..... please may we have option to turnoff:)
Chris

Edit: spelling fopaw

For me this is just more disappointing, cause I will probably not be able achieve such results, nowhere near in the future.

Too bad we in the West DO NOT have the ability to disable the E-filter as this person has.

Buzz... cmon man... did u not read my post in your thread?

they are working on it

At this rate we will all be buying the Russian version of the game, with english language turned on.

At least CloD will then be as intended, muzzle flash, propellers, high FPS, everything...


BobTuck.

Yes, lets vote with our money!

Its probably region locked through steam...

Thanks for post.
I cancel preorder right now.

How long is a piece of string?

double the length from one end to the middle.

Unreal !
 

How Ironic !
Here in the US , we consider ourselves the world leader in freedom , yet because
of a few thousand greedy trial lawyers and the corrupt liberal polititians who support them , we are forced to tolerate this kind of crap while many of the other
"not so free" countries get to enjoy a video game in it's unfiltered version.

Sheesh......when will we learn :confused:

Tolerate?
There's nothing to tolerate mate, or you happen to have the power to change Ubi's mind, which from rumours seems to consist of solid rock. It's a take it or leave it scenario basically. The only big hope is Luthier and his crew right now, working on a way to solve it.

I don't understand how you could have a risk of seizure in daylight , night battles I could see but muzzle flash in broad daylight?

Why are you assuming that they didn't cause seizures? The difference will be that the laws have changed, and now being aware of the problem 1C has a duty of care to take all resonable steps to minimize the effects. Otherwise they would be liable.

You will probably find the laws are not retrospective.

Depending on your view point, seeing a string of bombs falling in front of a bright background (sun, cloud what have you) would produce a series of flashes.

Elpilepsy is one of those things that can remain dormant is a person for their whole life, until the right set of events triggers an episode. The last thing I would want to interrupt my gaming session would be a over night trip to the children hospital if that trait suddenly decided to express itself in one of my children.

1C is just showing us how much they care for their customers.

cheers!

Really I think we in USA can have our swastikas

Oleg should fire Ubi, and release the game via digital download straight from Russia. More money for Oleg, better game for us. Problem solved.

"Propellers, muzzle flashes, smoke puffs, explosions, falling bombs, flying or taxiing between buildings, sun shining through canopy framework, etc, they were all causing potentially seizure-inducing flashes."

That sounds like a shed load of features that need to be made unrealistic to satisfy this ridiculous ruling. I want to see a realistic representation of propellor motion. I want to be dazzled by the sun off the canopy in a dogfight. I want to see realistic muzzle and bomb flashes.

I guess this is the reason those leaked vids were pulled so quickly....so we can't compare and see what we are missing. I do hope I get the chance to buy a copy that hasn't been visually frigged. Very dissapointing indeed.

That sounds like a great idea. I'd happily source from Russia if the language issues could be solved.

You answered your own question! Fantastic!

Well, in that case, make the filter an option. Like when I drink 15 beers I have the option to drink them with alcohol and get Sh*** drunk or alcohol free and take proper care of my body.

Thing is LET US DECIDE and LET US TAKE THE RISKS we think are acceptable.

And I agree this is not a health related issue but a legal liability one. And we have to thank that to our fellows americans and their national sport: GREEDY STUPID LAWSUITS. No offense buddies.

No sli, no sale, at least for now
 

Despite my desire to play ROF, I'm still waiting for sli support before I buy. I've wanted COD waaay more than ROF, but until sli support is fixed, I'm thinking that I'll wait til the good guys at 1C have the code fixed.

I understand the legal situation, but count me among those who wish we could disable the epi-fix.

Thanks for the update, Luthier.

It seems that many people misunderstand what Luthier`s saying. In the "rest of the world" version of the game, the filter is on. No options here. Now the Russian version has a conf.ini way to turn it off. What is the problem with translating the same version to Europe and US? If they had that idea in mind, then they wouldn`t have to work on anything.

Now what they are working on, is making the filter not eat up fps so much (it is a side effect). They are not working on how to turn it off. Hence, if you buy any version outside Russia, you just have to deal with the filter.

I feel exactly the same way. I was always 100% for the realism and not seeing any of the flashes I got naturally used to in IL2:1946 is going to leave a bad impression. The game might really be crippled.
I really think this is a bad decision.
You can`t say to a hardcore sim community 10 days before release that you`re cutting out 20% of its realism.
You can`t say to a pc oriented community 10 days before release that you`ve crippled the fps by an average of 10.

For the reasons listed above I can`t possibly buy the game. I never accept a bad quality product. 1C, don`t say that it is all right because it`s not. You significantly neuter the game two weeks before the big day but you still want me to give you money. I`m sorry but in this case you won`t get any from me, unless ofcourse I can get my hands on the Ruskie version that is.

None taken. This is a big shock delevered at the last moment. The reactions to it are very understandable.

Cheers!

What I don't get is this:
In real life isnt the flickering of a slow moving propeller (and yes I fly, I know that a prop moving at many speeds can seem invisible, but alot of the time, especially in helicopters, the prop is easily visible), the glittering of the sun, the sudden contrast of a fast moving vehicle going by... a varying contrast situation?

Do epileptics walk around with Anti Seizure glasses on? This just seems to be a reaction to possible law suits taken to the extreme.

I do hope this is made optional, just because I love the flashes and flickers of real life to be seen in a game that is, after all, representing reality. :rolleyes:

One can hope eh?

Good grief. I've only skimmed over this thread but please just give us a way to turn this bizarre filter off and the problem is solved. I would imagine the vast majority of epileptics out there who might play CoD know of their condition and could simply keep the filter on.

no, its rather easy to understand

the problem lies in the alternating dark and bright visual input, and if parts of the screen or the whole screen change, and at what rate etc

for ex in real life a person might have an epilepsy (or migraine) episode induced by driving on a bright sunny day on a tree lined street that produces intermittent visual input between the dark shaded area's and sudden bright light when the sun brakes through. if they drive for a few 100 meters like that it might not matter so much, but over a few km the input might be severe enough to be a factor (other factors might be how tired they are, if they are medicated etc..). btw many epileptics have their driving licenses revoked automatically once they are diagnosed, and they wont get it back unless they are on medication and are managed by their doctors.

with newer games the visual effects are much stronger then in some of the older ones, but some older games were already know to cause problems (hence the previous reporting of incidents, and computer game manufacturers starting to take this more serious)

it is a very good idea for BoB/Sow to be compliant with these basic new guidelines that have been put in place to reduce risk, because for the rest of us "normal folks" it means the game will be more comfortable to use in long gaming sessions, be less fatiguing, cause less headaches etc..

what is not a good idea is to have some kind of last minute filter placed on top of a finished game and grind the fpsec into the ground as a result, and making it just about unplayable.

Can someone show screenshots of before and after filter? Also before and after framerates? until then we don't know if this is a red herring, a storm in a tea cup , or a real problem.

Apoplectic epilepsy epiphany exigency.

I'm not american,but totally agree with you regarding the lawyers and polititians,that's my perception about all this.
It seems like an industry of trials against everything and everyone.

The crazy thing is, I never liked the visibly spinning props in IL-2 '46, anyway. :rolleyes:

I don't know how IL-2 came to be married to Ubi. However it started, this relationship is no longer healthy and Ubi shows absolutely no evidence of wanting to fix it. Oleg, Luthier... I hope you can find a way to divorce IL-2 from Ubi and still keep the lights on.

Ok then...Who choose UBI as publisher ? And who is suppose to know the rules and read the contracts ? UBI may be a bunch of @#$#%holes if you wish, but still, 1C could have signed with another publisher...
SO who made the mistake in the end ? DO you really think that after 10 years of partnership with UBI, 1C didn't know about this ? And that UBI call them 3 months ago to tell them:" Nice work, looks good ! Oh, by the way, you need to redo your code...You know, the epileptic thing ?"
Ya ..sure....Are you married ? Read your contract again....:grin:

Salute !

Man, you said it so brilliantly ;)...Last minute filter..The real problem is really there...Not in the process itself...

Salute !

I love the series and I want to support them. But I have no way of communicating to UBI that I think this is unacceptable other than not purchasing their defective product. I don't want any FPS loss for the sake of anti-flicker. I am OK with anti-flicker existing, and the dev team spending time on it instead of other things, if I have the choice to turn it off.

The developers at Maddox Games all have my best wishes and loving. Keep on trying to find a solution for this. I'll purchase as soon as it is cleared up. EDIT: I might also be interested in trying to buy the Russian version, if the language can be set to English.

I doubt it can, but Steam controls when you can play the game as it's a Steamworks game (you register the cd-key number through Steam).

If you live in the US then you need to wait till it's "unlocked" for that region.

I don't have epilepsy.. neither does anyone in my family or anyone who comes to my house... If this safegaurd is not switchable then it basically penalizes those who do not suffer from this illness... So here is to hoping it is a switchable feature..

This is yet another disappointment. Between never knowing when this game will be released and hearing that UBI is taking the reigns this is another turn downhill. I'm not here to rant and moan, but simply let you know this kinda became the final straw for me and I do not see myself purchasing this game with any kind of limiter in place. Been beefing my system the last year and I know have my beast to find their will be FPS limitations. This is a CYA for a less than 1% of the population issue. It's a sad day when a freaking video game has to follow guidelines for seizure patients. Maybe we should make the world out of pillows for Hemophiliacs. Sad. If there is no switch for this I assure you lost 1 of many potential customers.

Thank you.

Bearcat you need to stop now sir...this is a modern society and logic has no place hear ... ;-)

S!

I am in the nursing profession & have a special interst in this topic.

Luthier reports the game caused "wide-scale epilepsy failures when tested". This suggests a high incidence of photosensitive epilepsy (PSE) was encoutered amongst game beta-testers. In contrast, the incidence of PSE across Great Britain has been reported to be about 1.1 per 100,000 persons (0.0011%) [Quirk et.al. 1995].

The decision to impliment an "epilepsy filter" is presumably based upon Luthier's anecdotal observations, rather than the scientific evidence. The low incidence of PSE in the community does not seem to justify such a decision.

References
J. A. Quirk, D. R. Fish, S. J. M. Smith, J. W. A. S. Sander, S. D. Shorvon and P. J. Allen, Incidence of photosensitive epilepsy: a prospective national study. Electroencephalography and Clinical Neurophysiology
Volume 95, Issue 4, October 1995, Pages 260-267

Luthier,the problem is that the entire community don't want this filter,don't want any removal of graphic effect who possibly affect suspension of disbelief either.
As this filter isn't something that law obligate,what about to talk about with Ubi and drop all those things who are hampering the game and menacing CoD sales and maybe the future of the series?
Besides,no one will convince a judge that he "accidentally" deactivate the epilepsy filter in the confi.ini setting it to 0 for example.
That's another way to do something about it,allow the filter to be optional.
I can't believe that in any country in the world someone can sue anyone because his personal choices even in US, am I wrong?

I think it's a automated testing tool that is used, rather than incidents in the beta program. It's used in TV/games production to measure contrast changes and 'score' the result for problems or susceptibility.

Also, saying 'I don't have epilepsy, so why bother' is missing the point of the guideline, in that it was introduced after video games caused seizures in people who didn't previously show any symptom.

PS Not saying I agree with the use of this 'filter' but just trying to help with actual info.

Well in that case I dont see what all the fuss is about, Just advertise it as:

"IL-2 Cliffs of Dover, comes with free epilepsy tester for you and your whole family at no extra cost!"

They really are dumb at ubi marketing, sheeesh.

Best post of the week. This game should be repackaged as an epilepsy test kit.

I can see the advert now

IL-2 Cliffs of Dover - Your Eyes Will Roll Back In Excitement!

'Buy it now - it caused me to swallow my own tongue - it's that good!' - A recovering fan.

(*) Strobe light DLC attachment coming soon - see online for details

(Apologies if in bad taste - trying to lighten the mood a bit)

To Luthier & Oleg et al;

Sorry to say this after you've produced what looks to be the most exciting development in flight sim gaming for some time, but you've made a BAD mistake implementing this filter, and I'll tell you why.

Firstly, the whole issue has "knee-jerk reaction" written all over it. Due to one isolated case of photo-sensitive epilepsy, you've now neutered a game for 3/4 of the worlds potential players over a perceived risk that will, at-best affect 0.01% of that same population. And even if such cases do arise, which undoubtedly they will, will be very unlikely to result in serious injury or death in all but the most unusual or freakish of situations. And I can't see any judge awarding in favour of a plaintiff who disregarded or ignored suitable warnings.

I understand why you've done it. With the discovery coming so close to release date, you've implemented this quick fix (which I'd prefer to call a nasty hack), but your time over the last month would of been much better spent contacting Ubisoft's legal department to see how the laws stand in countries where the game is to be released.

Also, being Russian, and therefore not used to European / American / Western laws, I can also see how the fear of being sued into oblivion would prompt you to take some action. However the notion you provide that this filter cannot be made optional due to the risk of being sued is fundamentally flawed.

In the UK, AFAIK, the ONLY requirement for any product that may induce photo-sensitive epilepsy is that a disclaimer notifying users of the potential dangers is prominently displayed. Be it either in the packaging, or within the program. There are no lawful provisions in this country (yet) that make such a filter a mandatory requirement. Nor can i envisage a situation where any such law would be passed.

As to the poster who commented about the possibility of their child wandering into the room and suffering an attack by accident; that is scaremongering at best, and clutching at straws at worst. As a responsible adult and a parent, it is my responsibility to be aware of the risks to my child and therefore protect him from them. For example, keeping chemicals & medicines out of his reach are two prime examples. The law does not mandate that I must not or cannot use said medicines or chemicals because I have children. To do so would be health & safety gone mad. Being a safety rep at my place of work I'm well aware of how health & safety law applies in the workplace as well as in the home.

Take another point which I've often used to argue that these companies that offer "no-win-no-fee" cases to people ought to be themselves outlawed; If I'm walking along the high street and trip on a uneven flagstone, I should not be able to then sue my local council for damages because I was too inept / blind / stupid to be looking where I was walking in the first place. As long as the council at least followed the laws of the land to ensure my reasonable safety, the rest of the responsibility lies with me as a somewhat mature, rational, responsible adult.

Claims culture is a method of greed by people to obtain money under false pretences for injuries to which they were too ignorant to take the risks into account for themselves. The majority of sane, responsible adults should not be made to pay for the idiotic actions of those who are determined to injure themselves despite warnings and precautions put in place to protect them.

All that would be required if this issue did present any significant risk, would be to up the age restriction to 18's and over and as I've already said provide a disclaimer, and as some companies do, list measures how such risks of seizure can be avoided WITHOUT neutering the game from the get go.

I can tell you one law that will hurt you more than any perceived damage from Epilepsy. It's called the Sale of Goods Act. The product has to be fit for the purpose for which it was designed, and must be able to run according to the specifications that are published along with it. If I were Maddox games I'd be more worried by people suing me over the reduction in performance this filter brings with it, rather than the minuscule chance of an adverse epileptic reaction. It doesn't matter if patches are later released to "address" this issue. If the game is released on the 31st across the West, unable to be run on the specifications you as developers, and Ubisoft as publishers have mandated, you'll lose a hell of a lot more money in returns, cancellations and court cases than all the seizure court cases that would ever likely to be brought against you.

I don't see Call of Duty shipping with a mandatory filter. The only differences i can see aside from one being simulator and one FPS, is that one is at ground-level so there are less strikingly contrasting colours suddenly appearing, even when there are flashes and such like. White muzzle flashes, prop discs, debris are of course going to be more noticeable on a flight sim at 20,000ft, it goes without saying. And anyone with half a brain in their head will realize this too, however that does not excuse neutering or removing features because of it.

Kudos to Luthier for having the balls to confess to the origin and nature of such a filter. I do wonder if he would of been so forthcoming with the information had it not surfaced on the Russian forums first though. But either way you look at it, this is a rushed hack job that was shoe-horned in to keep the release on schedule. But the only mistake was not allowing responsible adult gamers the ability to CHOOSE for themselves what risks they wish to subject them or their immediate family to. You dropped the ball here guys.

It won't tempt me to cancel my pre-order, but be prepared for some very long-lasting negative feedback around the globe if this decision isn't rectified / reversed quickly. A scandal is what it will very likely turn into otherwise.

WOP avoided epilepsy by putting a big green filter on everything to fade out any contrast. ;)

Amazed to read this. -10fps is a lot.
Tons of first-person-shooters must be a lot worse epileptic vice than a flight-sim. A warning is good enough there.

Make this optional, please!
Unbelieveable...

Your points would be valid except for the fact that the Western publisher (Ubisoft) said implement it or we won't publish it. We can say "publish yourselves" all we want, but we don't know about any contractual agreements, or the publishing capacity of 1C Publishing as a whole. In the end we are getting what is contractually and physically possible by 1C Maddox. They have said they are working to correct the FPS issue and I for one am going to believe them. They aren't saying they are going to remove realism features, but correct them to fall within acceptable standards to prevent potential epileptic episodes in potential users. I do not believe that this means that realistic representation will be discernible from the mildly edited version.

I live in NA so I also have the advantage of an extra months worth of patches and fixes before I have to concern myself with release day bugs.

Yeah, unbelievable...can't find words. This is so stupid that I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Like 6 years in development and such an anti-climax. It all sounds so amateurish too, "oh! it was in the last minute we found out yadi yadi yada". If this game fails it's NOT because of the fact that people didn't buy the game, this is ALL on the developers. After following Oleg and IL-2 for over 10 years it really tears me up saying this.

The dog ate our code. Honestly!

It really sounds like that type of excuse...

Oh great......Now we have to ban bicycles and stairs too! You should have never said anything as they hadn't thought of this till you brought it up. :-x

Seriously though, have you ever seen emergency lights and strobing flashers used on police cars and ambulances in the US? If anything is going to induce an epileptic seizure its that. Especially in drivers passing the scene of the crime/accident at night. Total facacta bologna if you axe me.

[Poe's Law] I have to concur. This development team has such a long history of deceiving this community that I must take the word of the over-reactionary/naysayer/doubtful aspects of this communities word over the developers. These issues will never be fixed, and they are obviously out to rob us of our hard earned money as they have done so much in the past. How can we possibly trust them at their word?[/Poe's Law]

Give it time see what comes before you pass judgement.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

You see a lot of policecar light do you?
are you perhaps ... a crook?

dont worry about epilepsy for me... if i can at some point get rid of it in some way, i will turn this epilepsy protection off. Bring on thebangs and lightnings, shockwaves and hazardeous flashes...

I agree !!
Is this the first flight simulator ever? No, it is not.
Do other flight simulators like RoF, Lock-On, etc. have blurred low-fps graphics due to epilepsy problem? No, they do not.

I just hope that the Russian version can be sold in the rest of the world and switched to English... for the moment being, I will stick to old good IL-2:1946.

Maraz