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But to the bigger question, what I think needs to also happen is the code in CoD needs to be visually optimized for a bunch of different resolutions (16:10, 16:9...etc.) instead of just one like IL-2 was. I think you would agree with that. |
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you won't get "peripheral vision" without a full wrap around (270°) monitor setup Quote:
let's see how 1C has addressed it in CoD and take it from there |
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I suspect you know very well what I meant when I said no periperal (i.e., reduced/narrow FOV). |
wider/ narrower, isn't peripheral though
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This is true of any flat monitor. |
I guess you guys just don't want to see zapatista make a video of this insane proposition. I think what he describes would give me a headache very quickly.:-)
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http://blogulate.com/wp-content/uplo...tft-screen.jpg |
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i am using a 27' desktop monitor which i have set to 55 FoV (which correctly represents the FoV it represents for me on my desk while gaming). i have 2 snap views set to 35 and 90 FoV on my hotas as well as the 55 main setting, so while 80% of the time using the "true to life" 55 setting to fly around and see things "normally" (as much as the il2 game allows anyway), i can briefly use 35 to aim precisely when shooting at a target, and can briefly snap to the 90 FoV during close in dogfights to maintain my SA better. simple really :) to most of the time use those severely distorted views you describe using yourself would give me migraines, not sure why you even bother flying around in a gameworld populated by dinky toy objects trying to pretend being chuck yeager, not really "simulation" is it ? on a more joyful note i am in the process of trying to get a 3 monitor setup working by the time CoD is released. i intend to use 2 old 19' 4:3 monitors in landscape mode, one on either side of the 27' central screen. the dot pitch and resolution of the 3 monitors should match fairly closely (1280 x 1024 in landscape mode, means the 1280 will closely match the 1200 vertical resolution of the central monitor, and having 2x 1024 extra in horizontal viewing area will significantly increase my peripheral vision). its a cheap way of doing it and is not ideal, but it means the pc only has to push the equivalent of 2x 1920x1200, except it is now divided over 3 monitors. i have already questioned oleg on this in previous yrs, and CoD should allow combinations of monitors like that (it is reasonably common in gaming to do this now) the end result will be that it doubles my FoV to 110 degrees, and "all i need" is a 2e midrange gfx card for my current pc. the 2e card will drive the 2 19' screens, with my main card driving the 27' the end result should look something like this http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...1&d=1298897893 you can do something similar with 17' monitors in landscape next to a smaller central monitor, or for a central 30's use larger ones on either side etc.. for my 27' the 19' in landscape mode are a near perfect match. it is a compromise to do it like that, and if we'd all be rich we'd all have 3 30's screens and monster pc's to drive it, but on a budget it will significantly increase the fun factor at a minimal cost (for the extra mid range gfx card) |
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Your new setup sounds promising. Good luck with it. |
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Why the dig??? I will do you a favor and drop it. :)
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is it 2443BW or the 2443BWX ? |
Has SansFOV been mentioned in this thread? IL2 has a fixed ratio of 4:3, I think, so wont fit a wide screen. you either have it fitting side to side by editing the config file in which case you lose the top and bottom or you fit it top to bottom and have the black bars at the sides. What Sans does is fit the view to top and bottom but then adds the missing bits to the black bars. Whilst this is mainly of use when using multiple monitors side by side it still makes an improvement on a single screen. You can use the whole screen without the problem of losing track of the enemy so easily due to cropping. I have it working in Windows 7 with TrackIR and 6Dof with no problems.
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Does SansFOV require multiple graphics cards?
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[window] width=1400 height=1050 ColourBits=32 DepthBits=24 StencilBits=8 ChangeScreenRes=1 FullScreen=1 DrawIfNotFocused=0 EnableResize=0 EnableClose=1 SaveAspect=1 Use3Renders=0 Everything fits. No cropping or black bars. |
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I use San's FOV changer. It's a bit buggy sometimes, but can't live without it anymore. The default "wide" FOV in IL-2 is only 90 degrees in width. With 30" monitor with the looking distance that I use it looks like you would have a serious case of tunnel vision.
With 120 degrees it looks much more plausible, although causes some distortion between what you see on the center of the screen and what you see on the edges. The FOV is ofcourse fully adjustable in the San's app, can be much as 180 I think :) The buggy part being that when I switch to smaller FOV(the default "wide" for example) it sometimes gets stuck so that you cannot switch to the higher "San's FOV" anymore. Only pushing the restart button on the San's app seems to help in this. And somehow this is related to the OS you are using, as on W7 it seems to do it much more than it did on XP. -Untamo |
anyone knows which are the real distances a pilot with a normal/good vision can spot a single engine/twin engine/four engine aircraft?
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also, planes back in hte day flew together wich also made them easier to spot. i wonder from how far could you see a B17 formation? 50 km at least no? |
Whatever the sim, the problems, issues and discussions about the dot representing a plane at far distances are the same. Using lower screen resolution to create a larger dot will mean a loss of quality and clarity at mid to close range. It's your choice. Personally I would always want the highest res possible and don't care if I can't see that fighter 10km or more away when like as not it would have been missed in real life. One thing I will say about CloD versus IL2 is that the identification of aircraft is so much better in CloD that I really don't feel the need to use icons. In IL2 in a 109 v Spit furball I never felt overly confident that I wouldn't shoot at my side without icons but in CloD you can just tell them apart way way before they come into range.
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ROF now doesnt have dots, i think the view distance is up to 12km and works perfect.
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Can I also ask..
Is it just me or do you loose the dots momentarily once they go under the horizon and your above it? very hard to see untill they either go lower or come back up through the haze which is the horizon.. Is this realistic? OT..Im always losing contacts against the terrain..even with TrackIR5 but my resolution is 1920x1200 which prob doesnt help...as far as view distance i think its odd that the dots are larger in size with normal FOV but are smaller once you zoom in |
Well I have a 28 inch monitor @ 1900x1200 60hrz
I use the fov setings in the game on pov hat 180 is 90, 270 is 70, and 0 is 30. You can still use track ir and still have 6dof and z axsis. |
I personally find it near impossible to spot AC flying low when I'm high(far up not stoned;)). When hunting I swoop low with speed to check for dots above the horizon, then zoom and gain height. It's not the best way to hunt as you leave your self open in the zoom.
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You talk about the resolution in most. But the other important thing the Anti Aliasing. So nicely smooths into the background the planes (already in IL-2 too), that it something incredible. :rolleyes: :-D
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I think spotting planes, especially lower planes, is much, much harder in Clod than it was in '46.
Completely artificially so, for both sides, over both land and water textures, so it's not a camouflage thing. It's just another example of the "harder is more real" mentality which seems to have bedevilled the game design. |
This is the problem that bores me the most in flight sims.
Why should the planes disappear 1km below my plane but still be visible as black dots 4km over me? There are stories of pilots who saw planes only because of the sun reflection on the their canopy (luck) and in no way a plane can disappear on the forest when you are 400m behind it. I fly with No Icon because of my squad, but I'm sure that is not the most realistic way... one week ago i turned down my IL2's resolution to 1280*720 because losing dots it the most frustrating thing (above all flying in old IL2's planes against the newest ones). I think a sim should use Icon (very small) and should simulate what the pilot see and what he does not: clouds, sun... the dots/icon should totally disappear in that case. Build a Toggle Icon key and I'm ok with that. |
I think the last 2 posters have illusions on plane visibility in real life.
From experience i can tell that i spent a few minutes searching for a white plane together with me in the landing pattern. That means i knew roughly where it should be and in which direction to look. |
Camoflage was applied for a reason after all.
I do agree that spotting them above you, under certain circumstances, is perhaps too easy though. We do need to remember that trained military pilots at the ages that they were then were in the prime of their youth and physical capabilities, hence the accounts of pilots spotting aircraft at what seem to some of us outlandish distances. Even with my 57 year old eyes, spotting aircraft above me in the real world while standing on terra firma is not a difficult task, if the weather cooperates. It is actually much harder on a clear, sunny day. |
yes, dots in COD/il2 are hard to see and they are harder in DCS... guess what?, they're harder again in real life.
crikey, why don't the whiners just push for flashing neon arrows pointing out where they are instead? so sad to see good hardware piddled on because a whiner hasn't learnt |
the problem isnt that its to hard to spot planes.
as some have pointed out its not easy in real life. the problem is planes that pass below you are disappearing even as your staring at them. that imo is not realistic. |
Spotting aircraft above me at any distance is fine. Spotting them directly below me presents little problem for me, especially over water. However, at middle to long range and below my horizon I find they just break up and merge with the shimmering distant landscape. Hopefully this is down to lack of AA especially transparency and will be fixed in future.
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Wow! Here we are again... "In real life is harder!".
I can't disagree that "spotting" inflight airplanes is hard but we can't compare the real life's difficulty and the simulator's one. Here I'm talking about "tracking" the airplanes: I know where they are but I lose them in a blink. It gets me furious to listen one of my teammates who cries that he has one enemy on his six but all I can see is him and nobody else... until the enemy fires... And what about diving planes who disappear on the forest or in the high quality textures of the ground? In that case the game is no more relaxing for me, and I changed my resolution to fly with my friends. And what about motion perception? EDIT: that patrat1 says... @Wolf_Rider: calling the other posters "whiners"... good job. |
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It doesn't matter whether the dot visibility in game (both IL2 and CoD) is true or not in real life. But for the sake of fair online play, please make every player has the same dot size no matter what screen resolution they use. Come on! Is it really that hard to implement? To be frank, I don't want to play the game online in native full HD resolution with the guys with awful graphics but super big dot.
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look up some WWII warship camo and learn that in some cases it made the ship appear to be travel in a different direction to what it really was |
Hi guys,
enjoyning this thread and excluding visibility distance in real flight versus Sims I'm having problems with dots and airplane visibility online. I flew online for the first time yeaterday on sindicate server and I can easily spot a group formation or a single bogey level at long range and when as I'm approaching, agains sky, one by one, the dots disappear. This happen only online and with any FOV degree. I'll try to play at monitor native full res to see. Tried to change visibility distance to =2 in conf.ini and game video setup without success too... If someone can help I thank you in advance. <S>! |
i ve got 1920-1080 as native
and never had a problem to see the dots except if they flying really low and i'm flying at 4000 meters |
Dot visibility
those were the days, when dot visibility wasn't an issue... :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpv7dPTxLj0 |
Thank you for the explanation CheeseHawk.
I'm more calm now. When I asked about that on chat and received a laconic answer: ghosts, I really thought I was being screwed by other player and leave the room. :rolleyes: I was away from combat simulators sims for long time. Since the AH era and the gold years of the il2. The CoD has the potential to be the new watershed in ww2CFS though I hoped more for a sim promised for so long. Anyway I believe that the game can take off once resolved the initial bugs. Salute! |
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1. With server dot range set beyond about 8km (often its set around 14k) a dot moving further away than, in my estimation, 8km suddenly becomes invisible, there is no transition to a smaller but still visible dot. On occasions I can still see the greyest hint of a dot on full zoom but there is an unrealistic jump from visible to virtually invisible. On my 1680x1050 I would estimate it goes from a few black pixels (4?) to something possibly grey or blue at about 1 pixel and virtually invisible. 2. With an approaching dot it jumps from the clear black dot to something almost invisible which on full zoom can be seen to be a faint representation of an aircraft. Again an unrealistic visual jump. By "unrealistic jump" I mean that the human eye would track a faint dot to a clearer one then to an aircraft with some degree of linear progression. We know its impossible to re-create that on the screen if only because of pixel counts, different resolutiones etc,. but the current arrangement needs revising to something better. It was never quite that bad on IL-2 (in spite of the long lasting "discussions"). I am not suggesting that the visible range and detail of one or other is incorrect, just that there is an unrealistic progression through the various stages. Range visibility of dots, when they should become identifiable as aircraft, etc., are a different discussion that has been beaten to death in IL-2 and not one I want to restart here. I would just like to see the visual progression of the images improved/continuous. |
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The whole visibility issue needs looking at. |
ive tested it and came to the same conclusions as klem.
planes turn nearly invisable as they get closer. it just doesn't make sense. |
Actually I think it's much easier to spot distant "spots" in CLoD than in '46.
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Try a server or offline mission with map icons on and estimate their distance from the map grid when they appear/disappear. Check the server dot range in the console using the command mp_dotrange and see if you really can still see them when they approach the max dot range. |
Some days ago I was talking about this matter with one of my teammates who's in the logistic sector of the italian airforce and often he pilots the MB-339.
He said that it's easy to lose a contact who's flying on side of you, above all if he's on the skyline... but from 6+ miles of distance: instead ingame is more difficult than in real life also because the missing natural "haze" of the horizon. |
Whiners ;)
i play in high resolution in Il2 all the time, maybe a smaller one would help with the dots and sure its not always easy especvially against the ground, but if i would want it to be easy i would play with icons on anyway. |
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