Re: Things from IL2 we'd like to see again in BoB?
 

Ummm I know that every aircraft isn't the same, but the models/type are. It is very arcadish to be able to have the sliders all the way up to 100 and every aircraft feels the same, practically. There can be a set profile for each. I'd even settle for an envelope so that it can't get too crazy.

Re: Things from IL2 we'd like to see again in BoB?
 

No - you missed the point.

It's not just profiles for each aircraft. It's for each stick on the market. Different springs, different lengths, different throws, different pots, different gimbal designs, each one is different enough from the other that you can not cover all the possibilities on any reasonably budget or time frame.

Oleg did it right. Even if you don't like it.

Have you flown outside the sim? Maybe I don't get what you're saying to be honest. Explain it differently if you would.

What he says is that you can't finetune any FM on a certain curve because that curve ends in very different ractions to the stick input from each and every joystick. I've got a Thrustmaster Afterburner II which I'm used to, a friend has a Saitek system, another a CH setup. All three are fundamentally different in pitch and roll - using the same setup for my TM on the CH made me feel like trying to balance a perfect ball on the tip of a needle - very twitchy. On the other hand the Saitek stick felt sluggish and slow with my settings ... Just my observations but DDT lined it out - there are far too many stick combinations on the market and each stick is reacting differently. You can't make "one set of curves to fit them all" because that won't work.

Sniper, consider it this way.

The input force required to move the stick in a real, un-hydraulicly assisted aircraft will increase as speed increases, sometimes to the point of being unable to move the stick, or unable to move it very quickly at all.

However, in a non-Force Feedback joystick setup, the player will be able to slam max travel at will, regardless of speed.

This means that you need to use an abstraction layer and translate physical control (stick) travel into virtual stick travel (and speed) based on both the aircraft in question, and the speed it's traveling at.

This alone means you can not have 1 setup, because Force Feedback users will be limited in ways that non-FFB users are not.

But it doesn't end there. Thor illustrated it quite well. You have no way of knowing what stick the player will be using. You won't know it's spring rates, gimbal system, or measuring devices.

- Someone with a longer stick will have greater fine control than someone with a shorter stick.
- Someone with a stiffly sprung stick will have slower and more labored input (and more careful as a result) than someone with a lightly spring stick.
- Someone with a center notchy stick will have a different feel, and experience, than someone with a stick that smoothly transitions from axis to axis.
- A short throw pot will have less granularity (fine measurement) than a long throw pot.
- Hall Effect Sensors will have much cleaner, consistent, and precise output than any potentiometer.
- A dying pot will lose precision and get noisier, which means it will start to spike.
- A full HOTAS with rudder pedals and non-twisty stick will behave MUCH differently than a twisty stick.

All of the above means that what works for 1 stick will NOT work for another, except by a miracle coincidence. And even what worked for that one stick will not always work for it because that stick will degrade over time.

The means of filtering and manipulating stick input must be adjustable by the user. It will allow them to change and upgrade their control devices, as well as allow for easier extensibility of the code.

Remember, you are not adjusting stick travel with those sliders, you are adjust how much of the total force the virtual pilot has available to exert is acually applied to the virtual stick for that amount of physical stick travel. So in actuality you are controlling the pilot, NOT the plane, and your stick simply manipulates how much force he applies and in which direction.

You will find that at half physical travel, the virual stick will move a certain amount at 0kph IAS, and that same physical stick travel will result in less virtual stick travel at 400kph IAS.

Also, most sticks today allow people to create their own input curves when programming a profile anyway, so it's not like removing that will do any good - it will only harm those who can't adust their stick's curves through other means, and also mean more work and less profit for the devs, and less product for us.

Amazing!

How a well meaning topic can be hi-jacked by some who don't understand the intent of the author which was very plain.

SIGH again!

Please, take it to another thread.

I hope that non-historical aircraft are still available. For me as an offliner, creating the what ifs type of mission/campaigns is challenging and fun.

If not, there will still be IL2 until other series of SOW expand the options available.

Either way I'm looking forward to the next generation of OM's flight sim.

I hope the towing arrangement we have can be duplicated, but with a target drone in stead of the glider. It is very immersive staring off a campaign with actual training missions.