why dont the machine guns shoot like machine guns?

[guiltyspark]

There is about 90percent LESS lead in the air then there should be.

When i point the fighter toward the ground and fire off a burst only like one puff of smoke pops up on the ground.....

It should be MANY MANY puffs of smoke .

It turns out that the guns in this game are shooting at like 100 rpm .

WAY under the actual speed at which they shoot

[Wissam24]

Heard of tracers?

[guiltyspark]

Heard of tracers?

um...

read the post?

[Wissam24]

Just cause all you see is the tracers, doesn;t mean it's not shooting more

[Yossarian]

They only use 1 in 4 to 1 in 6 tracers, not every round. So for every smoke trail you see there are another 3-5 bullets actually being fired per gun.

Tracer rounds destroys gun barrels which is why they don't use 1 in 1.

[guiltyspark]

Just cause all you see is the tracers, doesn;t mean it's not shooting more

read the post agian , not talking about tracers

[Wissam24]

You do realise it's just a game, and there's only so much they can do. Anyway, just cause all you see are the puffs of smoke doesn't mean that's all it's shooting

[guiltyspark]

look , test it out yourself , take a bf109 and point it at the ground and see how many times the bullets hit the ground , the only "real" bullets are the tracers. there are no bullets in between

[Wissam24]

Oh, you mean hits on the ground, not smoke. Well, meh.

[MorgothNL]

I just checked with a spitfire.. and it is actually quite good. Only the cannons of the spit have tracers... so those are the only ones you see in the air.

Then I pointed to the ground and shot... seeing just dust comming up from the cannon shots...and not the machine gun shots. So maybe.. not all the bullets can been seen when you shoot the ground.

Anyways.. when giving one good burst to a plane... you shoot it down.. so the amount of lead that is in the game (visible or not).. is packing the 'same' punch as the 'real ' planes with the higher visible? rate of fire.

I think they maybe decreased the amount of vssible bullets... but increased the damage of the visible ones (according to the gunload of each plane)


I wonder what the devs have to say about it...

[Lexandro]

As far as I can tell only cannon rounds make the ground hit effect, since machine guns rounds are to small to register the effect.

[Steiner]

Try shooting at water...:-P

[Wissam24]

And yet, if you fire guns whilst landed on the ground, you can hear the empty cartridges falling on the floor

[guiltyspark]

And yet, if you fire guns whilst landed on the ground, you can hear the empty cartridges falling on the floor

sound effect thats pre recoreded , its not the actual shells hitting

[Wissam24]

No shit

[Ancient Seraph]

Imagine the load on the hardware if it had to produce an object 11 times per second, times 2, and the machine guns with an even higher rate of fire... It's gonna take a while until the hardware for that will be available. As stated before, the lack of quantity is probably compensated for by the amount of damage.
So to answer your question: yes, there are less bullets than there should be, and no it's not possible to fix this.

Disclaimer: I'm no developer, and only have amateuristic knowledge of developing, so I hereby apologize in advance for any untrue statements :-P

[Voyager]

Do the console versions have Debug mode? The PC version has a toggle that shows a hit marker/vector for all rounds that impact a target. Using that function we verified that, at least on the PC, while not all of the rounds are drawn, they are all modeled.

You aren't going to see all tracers anyways, because they burn the barrel out, and didn't typically have the stopping power of HE or API.

[ryan2107]

Why are you guys arguing with this Dbag? He's the forum troll. NOT ENOUGH DUST ON THE GROUND!!!!1111ONE

We don't have German cockpits and your complaining about dust kicked up from bullets?

Like I said before, Jesus himself could have made this game and you would find something to complain about.

[MorgothNL]

I believe for most of us... it is just a curiosity. Some of us are just interrested in some parts of developping, and this is an interresting subject (to me).
I would just like to know how the devs did it:rolleyes:

only the thread starter is complaining, the rest of us is discussing.
The game is great!, and after the title update, it will be 'perfect'!!

dont care about the trolls, we hunt those online:evil:

[Cwl]

Do the console versions have Debug mode? The PC version has a toggle that shows a hit marker/vector for all rounds that impact a target. Using that function we verified that, at least on the PC, while not all of the rounds are drawn, they are all modeled.

You aren't going to see all tracers anyways, because they burn the barrel out, and didn't typically have the stopping power of HE or API.

tracers fly on a different trajectory to regular ammo which could be detrimental to a pilots aim if he expects all the rounds to fly on the same path as the tracers.

[Ancient Seraph]

tracers fly on a different trajectory to regular ammo which could be detrimental to a pilots aim if he expects all the rounds to fly on the same path as the tracers.

Wow.. That would suck if it's true in IL2.. This would mean that the bullets that we see won't be going the same way as all the other bullets. So we just guess where the bullets go? :-P

[sir70]

Wow.. That would suck if it's true in IL2.. This would mean that the bullets that we see won't be going the same way as all the other bullets. So we just guess where the bullets go? :-P

You're looking at it all wrong, they're actually BONUS ROUNDS.


And, the only reason I hit anything:grin:

[David603]

Wow.. That would suck if it's true in IL2.. This would mean that the bullets that we see won't be going the same way as all the other bullets. So we just guess where the bullets go? :-P
I doubt that is modelled in BoP, and even if it was the difference in trajectories would be very small.

[guiltyspark]

Imagine the load on the hardware if it had to produce an object 11 times per second, times 2, and the machine guns with an even higher rate of fire... It's gonna take a while until the hardware for that will be available. As stated before, the lack of quantity is probably compensated for by the amount of damage.
So to answer your question: yes, there are less bullets than there should be, and no it's not possible to fix this.

Disclaimer: I'm no developer, and only have amateuristic knowledge of developing, so I hereby apologize in advance for any untrue statements :-P
games from 10 years ago have done this , its not exactly "hardware intensive" in any respect.

[Vulcan607]

the guns are harmonised so all the rounds converge to one place, hence the reduced number of clouds of dust etc.
in the game the range of harminisation seem to be varied so that its the range when the rounds hit the ground/sea.

[Kamak86]

Did you know that actual WW2 pilots of the P-51D rarely used all 6 machine gns at the same time.... When i find the video from the show dogfights there is a WW2 pilot talking about how they used 2 at a time (one of each wing) and they moved inboard to outboard. Ill post it.

[OntheCrab]

I totally agree with guilty on this one, and its something i noticed too.

I remember seeing old gun cam footage of planes strafing ships and the amount of water and mist blasted up by the rounds impact was EPICLY cool.

The splash effects when I shot into Dover harbour on my first play were kinda lame, to be honest. There was only like one spash for what should have been like 25 rounds.

It should look like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYOFt4IaHxA)That is all.

[Voyager]

Did you know that actual WW2 pilots of the P-51D rarely used all 6 machine gns at the same time.... When i find the video from the show dogfights there is a WW2 pilot talking about how they used 2 at a time (one of each wing) and they moved inboard to outboard. Ill post it.

I think it depends on the pilot too. I'm told some pilots would even stagger the zero points so that each would converge at a different range, but I'm given to understand that the high scorers generally used all six guns converged on a single point pretty close to the plane.

Also, on the P-51D model the inboard 0.50's have ~425 rpg, while the four outboard have, I think ~275, so when the outers run out, you've still got a good bit of firing time left on the inner pair.

I also recall, with the Wildcat, when it went from the F4F-3 four gun model, to the F4F-4 with 6 guns, the firing time dropped by something like 13-14 seconds, and some pilots started keeping to two inboard guns in reseve for when the 4 outboards ran out of ammo.