The Goat's Simulation Flight School

[PedroTheGoat]

So... This Goat has noticed that the majority of people will try simulation about 1 or 2 times and then never play it again because they have a really tough time off the bat and become extremely frustrated.

I'm ranked number 1 on simulation dogfight on 360 and thought that I would share what I've learned through my 100+ matches that I've played so possibly more people will stick with simulation instead of growing frustrated and not trying it anymore.

1. When you start a match the FIRST thing to do is to switch your flaps into "combat" mode. This will increase your turn radius and increase the envelope you have before you hit a stall. You should only put your flaps into the "raised" position when you need speed. Most of the time speed is secondary to turning.

2. ADJUST YOUR ELEVATOR SENSITIVITY... This is why the majority of sim players do not come back. They find it too hard to keep their plane in the air because the elevators are in the default max position and they drop out of the sky by simply attempting a simple bank. Elevator sensitivity varies from plane to plane. For example, my LA-7's sensitivity is set to about 3 notches down.... Where as if I fly the Spit I have to set it about 5 notches down. You want your elevator sensitivity to where you have maximum turning radius without slipping into a stall. If your plane starts slipping to the left or right when your doing a full bank then you need to set them down another notch or so. When in the Virtual Cockpit you can see your stall envelope by the two horizontal lines on your HUD. When they start to cross one another then you are coming close to stalling. Know your plane's sensitivity... This is of the utmost importance.

3. Check your map OFTEN. But do not rely on it. Check your map to get a bearing on your target and then scan for him. Do not zone in on your map all the time. This will screw up your situational awareness and will get you shot down. Just use it to get a general idea of the vector and bearing on the target then start scanning for him.

4. If your having trouble finding targets then go low and bank and scan the horizon. 90% of dogfights are going to occur 1000 feet or lower. So if you see a furball happening on the map then you can bet that it is probably happening low on the ground. So if your at 3000 feet (Typical spawning altitude), then scan low.... Pick your target, and swoop down and attack.

5. Dogfighting and you: This one is a bit tough to describe to everyone. Everyone has a different style of dogfighting... And experience is key. You'll find what works for you and what doesn't. KNOW YOUR PLANE... This is KEY in a dogfight. Most dogfights will devolve into a simple turn battle. If you're flying a P-51 (Which you never would in a competitive dogfight), then DO NOT get into a turn fight with an I-16. You will die... Everytime. Just know and understand if you can out turn your enemy or not. You will learn which planes can out turn other planes through experience. If your plane cannot out turn your enemy then raise your flaps, max your throttle, then disengage and come back for another pass. Unfortunately, boom and zoom tactics are a bit tough to pull off because of the flawed kill system at this point. A lot of the times you will damage a plane in a decent pass and will not be credited with the kill when they crash. When this is fixed we should see a lot different tactics out of serious dogfighters. In the meantime, try to get sustained fire on a target. Destroying them air is about the only way to ensure a kill.

6. DO NOT GET TUNNEL VISION ON A TARGET: A lot of the times you'll be on someone's tail and then pick another up. Most of the time you will want to kill what's in front of you and attempt to ignore that someone's on your ass. If someone is on your butt, then try to shake them! Even if it means you give up the kill that is in front of you. A lot of the times you can shake the one on your butt and then get even more targets of opportunity.

7. This is related to number 6... TRY TO GET ON THE REAR OF A GRAVY TRAIN. A lot of the times when you engage in a furrball you'll notice that it is one target, on another target's tail, who happens to have someone on their tail, etc. Try to get in on the rear of this gravy train. jump in on the rear target of the train and start making your way forwards. That's why when someone jumps on your tail. it's a good idea to shake and try to re-engage on the rear of the train again. It will maximize your kills.

8. Try to think 3D: Banking is not the only way to attempt to loose a target... And a lot of the time simple 2D turn fighting will get you killed. Try losing them by map of the earth flying. Or raising your flaps and out speeding them, or if your plane has excellent climb characteristics, then climb away (Don't go straight up in the air though... That will usually get you shot down unless your fighting an EXTREMELY underpowered enemy). So avoid being in a 2D FURDISC. Try split S's, loops, switch backs, etc. Even scissor fighting can get a pursuer in front of you a lot of the time.

9. Also, think SPEED. If it seems like you are about to overshoot a target, then don't be scared to KILL your throttle. If you drop your throttle down to zero and goose it back up then you'll effectively drop your airspeed dramatically. A lot of fighters pay little attention to throttle and just keep it at 100. You'd be suprised how many times you can shake someone off you by paying close attention to your speed.

10. ETHICS.... This is the final and most important of The Goat's advice. DO NOT crash intentionally to shake someone off your tail. It's stupid, and makes you look like a jackass. Also, soon it will be patched, and if you're reliant on being a douchebag when it is patched then it is going to suck to go against decent fighters who don't engage in such behavior. If you are shot up and are having trouble staying in the air then announce to the room that they need to finish you off to get the kill. If they black something out on your plane then you can bailout and a lot of the times it will credit them with the kill. Keep the skies friendly and honorable. If someone is being an asshole and crashing all the time, then leave the room and send them a message why you quit early. We have one guy on our leaderboards who does this kind of crap all the time. His tag is 0 Monster 0 or something like that. Do not fly with this ass. Leave the room and let him fly by himself. Find me, Deadpreacherr, LA Smack, Ursala01, toastaddict, Seraphim, or other honorable people to fly with. Our group tends to be on a lot of the time. (By the way, those gamertags are not exact, just take a gander at the leaderboards to find us)

Another thing, when playing dogfight or team battle... It makes you look like an ass if you fly a plane with a rear gunner. It basically announces to the room that you can't really fly a plane too well.... So you're going to fly straight and level and use a rear gunner as if this game was an FPS. It's pretty lame. So do not make an extreme habit of this. It won't improve your skill, nor is it a respectable thing to do.

Love to all and I hope some of this helps. Sorry if a lot of it is obvious to you.

So keep it real and come find This Goat for a friendly game or two. I would love the simulation community to grow. And do not mind answering any questions anyone may have.

[El Hadji]

Great man!!! A question: do you mind if I copy and paste your Flying Lesson into the IL-2 board of the Swedish 360 community I run? Needless to say you will get FULL credits. I just wanna share it with our members and visitors. Just like you - I want this community to grow!

p.s. What platform are you using 'Goat?

[PedroTheGoat]

Great man!!! A question: do you mind if I copy and paste your Flying Lesson into the IL-2 board of the Swedish 360 community I run? Needless to say you will get FULL credits. I just wanna share it with our members and visitors. Just like you - I want this community to grow!

p.s. What platform are you using 'Goat?

Feel free to post this wherever you wish. I play on 360.

:D

[El Hadji]

Expect a friend request if you have free slots available!

[PedroTheGoat]

Expect a friend request if you have free slots available!

Will do.

[El Hadji]

And your GT is PedroTheGoat?

[PedroTheGoat]

And your GT is PedroTheGoat?

Sure is. :D

[El Hadji]

Friend request 12 o clock!

[PedroTheGoat]

By the way... I forgot to mention that you can adjust your elevator sensitivity IN GAME.

[QBlackDeathQ]

Feel free to post this wherever you wish. I play on 360.

:D

wish you were on the PS3 their is this guy his name is EDAL86 and he likes to shoot me down:cry:. I mean he would break off a sure kill to plug my ahem. I think he is picking on me :-( what should i do?

P.S anywho how many kills do you have?

[Soviet Ace]

wish you were on the PS3 their is this guy his name is EDAL86 and he likes to shoot me down:cry:. I mean he would break off a sure kill to plug my ahem. I think he is picking on me :-( what should i do?

P.S anywho how many kills do you have?

"EDAL86" huh? Well, I'll be sure to find him and pick him off for you. Me and my trusty 20mm ShVAK cannon and twin 12.7 Berezin UBS MGs will get rid of him ;)

[QBlackDeathQ]

"EDAL86" huh? Well, I'll be sure to find him and pick him off for you. Me and my trusty 20mm ShVAK cannon and twin 12.7 Berezin UBS MGs will get rid of him ;)

lol are you on my friends list?

[PedroTheGoat]

wish you were on the PS3 their is this guy his name is EDAL86 and he likes to shoot me down:cry:. I mean he would break off a sure kill to plug my ahem. I think he is picking on me :-( what should i do?

P.S anywho how many kills do you have?

Show him that he's not a decent dogfighter by flying the I-16 or I-153 against him. Unless he's really smart, then he won't know what to do against a plane that can outturn the crap out of him. 90% of players don't know how to cope with a plane with an extreme turn radius.

I have 500 + kills at this point.

My favorite plane by far is the LA-7. I also like the Spit Mk XVI. And I am jealous of people who have taken the time to unlock the Bf 109 K-4 because of it's extreme guns! But I hate german planes in general so I doubt I will take the time to unlock it.

[Soviet Ace]

lol are you on my friends list?

No, but I'm always willing to knock off some bullies with my Yak-3 ;) :cool:

[QBlackDeathQ]

Show him that he's not a decent dogfighter by flying the I-16 or I-153 against him. Unless he's really smart, then he won't know what to do against a plane that can outturn the crap out of him. 90% of players don't know how to cope with a plane with an extreme turn radius.

I have 500 + kills at this point.

My favorite plane by far is the LA-7. I also like the Spit Mk XVI. And I am jealous of people who have taken the time to unlock the Bf 109 K-4 because of it's extreme guns! But I hate german planes in general so I doubt I will take the time to unlock it.

I don't know i think he is 2nd in dogfight and in team dogfight. might just wait around his hanger with a bat and hit him over the head.:rolleyes: but i hope the bat does not fly away too;)

[Soviet Ace]

Both planes in my sig I highly suggest to take him on. But one question I do have: What does he fly mostly?

[QBlackDeathQ]

everything! whats your PSN

[King Jareth]

Nice post Pedro, I will digest it later.

[Wissam24]

Unfortunately there are never any Sim games on the PS3 or I would use your guide like a bible. Everyone plays arcade..

[PedroTheGoat]

Nice post Pedro, I will digest it later.

Thank you my friend!

[PedroTheGoat]

Unfortunately there are never any Sim games on the PS3 or I would use your guide like a bible. Everyone plays arcade..

Yeah, most of the matches I play seem to be with the same dozen people or so. Basically, anyone who is on the first page of the leaderboards is who I fly against the most. (Except for Monster)

[Ferigno]

Thanks for the great post Pedro. For new pilot looking to learn, this is a great read.

I agree with what you're saying about the boom and zoom though. It makes life frustrating for someone that wanted badly to fly a p51, and makes a lot of advice and tactics somewhat moot. If the game will only reward turn fights, then turn fights is all you'll get. I'll be glad when that patch comes so I can hawk someone down from altitude.

Again, thanks for the post man. While I'm not anywhere near your proficiency, I'm gonna throw you an invite just to live vicariously through your kills. :)

[Wissam24]

I know I'm 3rd in Realistic Strikes

[PedroTheGoat]

Thanks for the great post Pedro. For new pilot looking to learn, this is a great read.

I agree with what you're saying about the boom and zoom though. It makes life frustrating for someone that wanted badly to fly a p51, and makes a lot of advice and tactics somewhat moot. If the game will only reward turn fights, then turn fights is all you'll get. I'll be glad when that patch comes so I can hawk someone down from altitude.

Again, thanks for the post man. While I'm not anywhere near your proficiency, I'm gonna throw you an invite just to live vicariously through your kills. :)

The patch will fix some of this soon. So that's a great thing.

Feel free. I like having lots of friends who want to play simulation. I tend to hit them all up when I start a room.

[King Jareth]

Yeah, most of the matches I play seem to be with the same dozen people or so. Basically, anyone who is on the first page of the leaderboards is who I fly against the most. (Except for Monster)

and me (40th I think :()

[PedroTheGoat]

and me (40th I think :()

Yeppers, a lot of us 202nd guys are good peeps. Check out our roster in the link in my sig to see some good fellows to fly with.

[LA Smack]

Thanks Goat....ya did the boards a nice service here....hopefully a lot of realistic and arcade players take advantage of this info, because I'll tell ya what...lighting someone up on simulator will bring you lads a helluva a lot more enjoyment on simulator than the other two modes....you really get sense of accomplishment from it and thats what gaming is all about....

-Matt

[PedroTheGoat]

Thanks Goat....ya did the boards a nice service here....hopefully a lot of realistic and arcade players take advantage of this info, because I'll tell ya what...lighting someone up on simulator will bring you lads a helluva a lot more enjoyment on simulator than the other two modes....you really get sense of accomplishment from it and thats what gaming is all about....

-Matt

So damned true. The sense of satisfaction you get from killing someone in simulator mode is unsurpassed by any other mode. Even if you only get 1 kill a match, that kill will give you the satisfaction of 10 on Arcade Mode. To see a bare bones plane in front of you with NO lock on or any silliness like that, then be able to shoot and blast it's wing off and watch him spiral to the ground while fighting off the stall that you threw yourself into to get that perfect shot off (Without the computer telling you that you are stalling) is just an example of the awesome and exhilarating experiences that you get when in sim mode.

[PedroTheGoat]

By the way LA Smack. Super nice sig. We sure do look fly. ;)

[LA Smack]

Why yes we do Goat.... Dogfighting aces 1,2,3 grabbin a smoke and a beer before defending the motherland...lol ...fly interpretations spell leisurely advances in creative thinking :)!!!

[Soviet Ace]

Good hunting comrades. Me and my Yak-3 will be waiting below to pick off the Jerry's that try to get on your six ;)

[mattd27]

Hey thanks for the tips Goat, I'm ok at sim, but I could use a bit of practice. The only thing is the I-153 doesn't have a cockpit. :( *sniff sniff*

I'm assuming the po-2 is also lacking? I haven't unlocked it yet, but I'm really looking forward to it. I would be looking forward more if it had a cockpit.

[LA Smack]

Matt, you are correct, the P02 is also lacking a cockpit

-Matt

[QBlackDeathQ]

Unfortunately there are never any Sim games on the PS3 or I would use your guide like a bible. Everyone plays arcade..

um i only play simulation, so does edal86, varcus2, maninovka, wolfsalt, partizan, cpl-mowatt, mage_016, yopgruf, wh1tefoot, reaper1526, negos, madmel69, skeekatze, betaswitch, coxidian, axe99, mantini, whatsABlacksheep, DasSchmidt, cessna17216, Nw780, Roberts333, QBlackDeathQ, and many new players jumping over from realistic. I run games around 3pm-8pm eastern time, so if you want to get into a game come and join us :-)

[mattd27]

Matt, you are correct, the P02 is also lacking a cockpit

-Matt

arghh I thought so.:-x I've really taken to the bi planes and it's a pity I won't be able to properly fly them in sim.

[LA Smack]

Perhaps we'll be surprised in the DLC and get cockpits for the rest of the aircracft :)

[fuzzychickens]

Goat, forgot a tip - fly the La-7.

1. best cockpit by far
2. top speed - wtf? The thing is fast
3. pretty good guns - probably only second to the mk108 in the k-4 in ability to tear planes to shreds
4. turn radius - crazy turner
5. you can run engine on WEP forever

Not sure how it compares to yak-3 in turn - no one seems to be flying yak3 much.

You should unlock the k-4, I'm swearing off the la-7 until I get the K-4, gotta have this plane for tearing fighters and bombers to shreds.

Also, sim mode needs to have the map modified - should go to large grid system to show general location of enemies - not exact location, kinda screws up BnZ for planes like 109 and p51

[PedroTheGoat]

True. The planes that can hold up pretty well in a dogfight are the Yak - 3, La - 7, Spitfire Mk VI, and the mk XVI, and the BF 109 K 4.

[KurtG85]

Yah, while I like the slightly increased realism of sim and the fact you have to manually search and find your target, it is still just a matter of having your radar in an awkward place: your map. It feels really tacky and ruins the whole thrill of frantically searching for your target; just check your radar and you know which direction he is at. Really very little difference from realistic mode IMO. The only reason I REALLY like sim is the full zoom mapped to left trigger but thankfully this will not be an issue with the update anymore. If they make a clever way to be able to at least locate the general area of your enemy without making the map a functional radar I would see some point to playing sim. I also think that sim should be locked to cockpit view (not virtual cockpit). Obviously this would be a bit broken with the lack of cockpit art though.

I thought I had heard that you could have the option to lock the players views into cockpit as host, apparently I heard wrong.

[PedroTheGoat]

Yah, while I like the slightly increased realism of sim and the fact you have to manually search and find your target, it is still just a matter of having your radar in an awkward place: your map. It feels really tacky and ruins the whole thrill of frantically searching for your target; just check your radar and you know which direction he is at. Really very little difference from realistic mode IMO. The only reason I REALLY like sim is the full zoom mapped to left trigger but thankfully this will not be an issue with the update anymore. If they make a clever way to be able to at least locate the general area of your enemy without making the map a functional radar I would see some point to playing sim. I also think that sim should be locked to cockpit view (not virtual cockpit). Obviously this would be a bit broken with the lack of cockpit art though.

I thought I had heard that you could have the option to lock the players views into cockpit as host, apparently I heard wrong.

The map is a tad hokey I will admit. But it seems like a necessary evil from my point of view. A lot of the maps are just too large to easily identify your target visually. So it seems like a lot of matches would end up people running around the map lost and a dogfight would just be a chance encounter. As realistic as that may be, it just doesn't sound fun to me.

The virtual cockpit is necessary because as of this point... The players would only be able to fly a dozen or so aircraft. So that's out the window.

I think the addition of flaps and trim make a HUGE difference from realistic. And the whole targeting stuff makes realistic a completely different game from simulation. Also, not having the radar in your face makes the game completely different also.

Not to mention that there isn't a big red warning on the screen for almost every action you take. And the fact that your plane will fly straight and level in realistic no matter the conditions unless you hit a complete stall.

I'm not downing on realistic. If that's what you like to play then you should play it. I just don't think it's fair to marginalize simulation mode because of your reasoning.

[Soviet Ace]

Goat, forgot a tip - fly the La-7.

1. best cockpit by far
2. top speed - wtf? The thing is fast
3. pretty good guns - probably only second to the mk108 in the k-4 in ability to tear planes to shreds
4. turn radius - crazy turner
5. you can run engine on WEP forever

Not sure how it compares to yak-3 in turn - no one seems to be flying yak3 much.

You should unlock the k-4, I'm swearing off the la-7 until I get the K-4, gotta have this plane for tearing fighters and bombers to shreds.

Also, sim mode needs to have the map modified - should go to large grid system to show general location of enemies - not exact location, kinda screws up BnZ for planes like 109 and p51

The Yak-3 can out turn the La-5FN and La-7. It is smaller, and have a shorter wingspan, so less resistance.

True. The planes that can hold up pretty well in a dogfight are the Yak - 3, La - 7, Spitfire Mk VI, and the mk XVI, and the BF 109 K 4.

You forgot the La-5FN. Really, once you get the trim and such right, it's not a bad plane to fly. I've had several successful online dogfights with it, and have scored a lot of kills :D

[PedroTheGoat]

The Yak-3 can out turn the La-5FN and La-7. It is smaller, and have a shorter wingspan, so less resistance.



You forgot the La-5FN. Really, once you get the trim and such right, it's not a bad plane to fly. I've had several successful online dogfights with it, and have scored a lot of kills :D

Are you sure the Yak-3 can out turn the LA-7??? I haven't been able to get the Yak-3 to turn too well. Even with elevator sensitivity on the edge of a stall. Most of the time I'm at extremely low altitude. I would use the Yak-3 more often because it is such a beautiful bird if it's turn rate was just a tad better.

You're right about the La-5. I just HATE the recoil of the guns on that thing. The La-7 just shoots so much better. It is a great plane though.

[Soviet Ace]

Are you sure the Yak-3 can out turn the LA-7??? I haven't been able to get the Yak-3 to turn too well. Even with elevator sensitivity on the edge of a stall. Most of the time I'm at extremely low altitude. I would use the Yak-3 more often because it is such a beautiful bird if it's turn rate was just a tad better.

You're right about the La-5. I just HATE the recoil of the guns on that thing. The La-7 just shoots so much better. It is a great plane though.

Yeah I'm sure the Yak-3 can outturn the La-7. Also, the La-7 I believe had a Ash-82FN engine, where the La-5FN had just a M-82FN engine, so the recoil would have been dumbed down by the heavier engine. But if they both have the same gun armament.

EDIT: Also for a side note, the La-5FN was actually (besides the Yak-3) highly respected by the Soviet pilots, like "Ivan The Terrible" who was the highest scoring ace of the Soviet Union in WW2, with 62+ kills. He flew Yak-1s, LaGG-3s, Yak-9s, and La-5FNs ;)

[PedroTheGoat]

Yeah I'm sure the Yak-3 can outturn the La-7. Also, the La-7 I believe had a Ash-82FN engine, where the La-5FN had just a M-82FN engine, so the recoil would have been dumbed down by the heavier engine. But if they both have the same gun armament.

Then I'm going to fly a few sorties with the Yak-3 tonight and see how I fare. :D

[Soviet Ace]

Here's a read out of Soviet Planes, it starts with the Aircraft creators, but La= Lavochkin and Yak= Yakovlev etc. etc.

Soviet Plane Stats (http://www.airpages.ru/eng/ekb_main.shtml)

[BeaverCompany01]

Great Post Pedro............

I hope you dont get too comfortable with that number 1 spot because tomorrow the Canadians get this game released!!!!!

That's right the Canadians are coming.......................lol

(finally)

[PedroTheGoat]

Great Post Pedro............

I hope you dont get too comfortable with that number 1 spot because tomorrow the Canadians get this game released!!!!!

That's right the Canadians are coming.......................lol

(finally)

I'll be anxiously awaiting the opportunity to shoot down my favorite neighbor.

[BeaverCompany01]

Pedro, what timezone are you?

[merro]

Thx for the tipps, good read. I really have big problems in turn fights on sim mode, esp. last night, i just could not keep up with my enemy. I know the reason now. My sensitivity is set waay back, to avoid stalls.
No wonder i got my arse handed to me last night esp. from edal!
I got him twice though, but that guy owned me bad!
Hope this improves my flying, but there are really some good pilots on sim mode on the ps3. I need a lot more practice to get as good as rival players. But thats what is all about, a good learning curve and not getting frutrated if things don´t work out too well.

[PedroTheGoat]

Pedro, what timezone are you?

Central.

[King Jareth]

Finally got round to reading all of this and its a top post, big thumbs up from me.

I've been frantically trying to unlock some more planes because trying to hang with the guys on goats games in a spit MkII was just not going to happen (not that that was the only reason I was getting smoked every 2 seconds :() but I'll have to hook up for another game tonight. Been missing the sim action.

[PedroTheGoat]

Finally got round to reading all of this and its a top post, big thumbs up from me.

I've been frantically trying to unlock some more planes because trying to hang with the guys on goats games in a spit MkII was just not going to happen (not that that was the only reason I was getting smoked every 2 seconds :() but I'll have to hook up for another game tonight. Been missing the sim action.

Yeah, Spit II won't hold up too well against an La 7 or a mk XVI.

[cydno]

Hi PedroTheGoat :grin:

Thx for this post cause it helped me quite a lot and I completly agree with you. Unfortunately I play on the PS3 and I cannot join you guys which mentality sticks to mine.

Anyway I have two questions for you that could sound stupid.

this il all about ADJUST YOUR ELEVATOR SENSITIVITY things...

1st:

In the options settings, you can effectively adjust your elevator sensitivity... can you give an example of what you do with the plane you use the most?
For instance: " I fly the spit MKIX and set the ailerons sensitivity max - 5"

2nd ( 2 for the price of one;)):

Also, while explaining all this, do you refer to the "flow corrector" (sorry if that is the worng term but that is a direct translation from french)?
I mean, when your flightstick is on its neutral position, do you let your plane fly horizontally, or do you set it to fly going up a little bit so this might increase your turning rate?

I hope that my questions were clear... :rolleyes:
And thank you for your help I appreciate it much....:grin:

[PedroTheGoat]

Hi PedroTheGoat :grin:

Thx for this post cause it helped me quite a lot and I completly agree with you. Unfortunately I play on the PS3 and I cannot join you guys which mentality sticks to mine.

Anyway I have two questions for you that could sound stupid.

this il all about ADJUST YOUR ELEVATOR SENSITIVITY things...

1st:

In the options settings, you can effectively adjust your elevator sensitivity... can you give an example of what you do with the plane you use the most?
For instance: " I fly the spit MKIX and set the ailerons sensitivity max - 5"

2nd ( 2 for the price of one;)):

Also, while explaining all this, do you refer to the "flow corrector" (sorry if that is the worng term but that is a direct translation from french)?
I mean, when your flightstick is on its neutral position, do you let your plane fly horizontally, or do you set it to fly going up a little bit so this might increase your turning rate?

I hope that my questions were clear... :rolleyes:
And thank you for your help I appreciate it much....:grin:

I typically fly the La 7 or the Yak 3. La 7 usually gets about -3. Yak gets about -5.

I usually do not adjust my trim. I leave it alone... If you mess with your trim too much then it may mess up your envelope.

[FOZ_1983]

Nice going mate, some usefull tricks in their to help newer players. 10/10.

Catch you soon.

[KurtG85]

The map is a tad hokey I will admit. But it seems like a necessary evil from my point of view. A lot of the maps are just too large to easily identify your target visually. So it seems like a lot of matches would end up people running around the map lost and a dogfight would just be a chance encounter. As realistic as that may be, it just doesn't sound fun to me.

The virtual cockpit is necessary because as of this point... The players would only be able to fly a dozen or so aircraft. So that's out the window.

I think the addition of flaps and trim make a HUGE difference from realistic. And the whole targeting stuff makes realistic a completely different game from simulation. Also, not having the radar in your face makes the game completely different also.

Not to mention that there isn't a big red warning on the screen for almost every action you take. And the fact that your plane will fly straight and level in realistic no matter the conditions unless you hit a complete stall.

I'm not downing on realistic. If that's what you like to play then you should play it. I just don't think it's fair to marginalize simulation mode because of your reasoning.

I'm sure I could think of a fix for being able to find planes right now without having what is essentially a radar avaliable if I took a couple seconds.... ok got it. Just one idea would be to have the players positions mapped to a pretty large 'grid' of air space, as one person mentioned. At far distances other planes would have a pronounced glare or 'glinting' effect coming from their cockpit glass, basically highlighting their location at excessive distances. This effect would go away at moderate ranges. As you probably know, the biggest difficulty is just finding the enemy to begin with in sim. Once you find them you will usually stay engaged with him till one of you dies as long as one of you is adept at using the look around camera. Relocating problem solved without having to have a radar present in sim.

As for the virtual cockpit thing, thats what I meant when I said that would, obviously, be 'broke'.

The map is simply radar no matter which way you look at it and this will be made especially easy and less awkward to access with the coming controls update.

I think my reasons are perfectly good ones for why sim mode is marginalized. These things are just my opinion, not a statement that everyone must feel the same way.

[FOZ_1983]

Finally got round to reading all of this and its a top post, big thumbs up from me.

I've been frantically trying to unlock some more planes because trying to hang with the guys on goats games in a spit MkII was just not going to happen (not that that was the only reason I was getting smoked every 2 seconds :() but I'll have to hook up for another game tonight. Been missing the sim action.



If you want a hand getting some of the planes then hit me up. Seems of fair to help the other fly boys in the 202nd.......... even if they are not part of gold squadron ;)

[PedroTheGoat]

I'm sure I could think of a fix for being able to find planes right now without having what is essentially a radar avaliable if I took a couple seconds.... ok got it. Just one idea would be to have the players positions mapped to a pretty large 'grid' of air space, as one person mentioned. At far distances other planes would have a pronounced glare or 'glinting' effect coming from their cockpit glass, basically highlighting their location at excessive distances. This effect would go away at moderate ranges. As you probably know, the biggest difficulty is just finding the enemy to begin with in sim. Once you find them you will usually stay engaged with him till one of you dies as long as one of you is adept at using the look around camera. Relocating problem solved without having to have a radar present in sim.

As for the virtual cockpit thing, thats what I meant when I said that would, obviously, be 'broke'.

The map is simply radar no matter which way you look at it and this will be made especially easy and less awkward to access with the coming controls update.

I think my reasons are perfectly good ones for why sim mode is marginalized. These things are just my opinion, not a statement that everyone must feel the same way.

All your points are valid. Sorry I sneered earlier.

[Wissam24]

I played my first sim game online today. Man, it's a totally different game, so much more fun! And I found I was pretty good too. SO much fun. But am I cheap for using the virtual cockpit?

[PedroTheGoat]

I played my first sim game online today. Man, it's a totally different game, so much more fun! And I found I was pretty good too. SO much fun. But am I cheap for using the virtual cockpit?

Well good on your success! Wish you were on 360. You could fly with a good amount of sim players.

No, unfortunately you're not being cheap at all. A lot of the planes do not even have a cockpit (of course), so choosing to not lose 60% of your viewing area is not cheap. Maybe someday we will have cockpits for all airplanes... Then we could add a mode for cockpit only. At this point though, to be competitive, being in cockpit is not an option.

[Lexandro]

All right chaps I gave Sim mode a whirl. I didnt even finish the tutorial. Why? Because I lost my flight lead within 5 seconds of starting, due to not being able to set the trim properly with the 360 joypad. No matter how I set it the plane ALWAYS rolls left, even when I hold it to a right side roll and set trim. I got so p****d off that I simply went and tried to land it instead to get the achievement. I did land it eventually, after several tries. Then I noticed that I didnt have the flaps set so that was what was making the landing harder. That and the fact that the hurricane always ends up stalling in a turn even if I set the sensitivity down.

So, how DO I set the trim properly? Or is there just something funky about the mode that im not getting? Please remember also that I do actually play flight sim games on PC so I know what Im doing, I just cant get it to work in this game.

[PedroTheGoat]

All right chaps I gave Sim mode a whirl. I didnt even finish the tutorial. Why? Because I lost my flight lead within 5 seconds of starting, due to not being able to set the trim properly with the 360 joypad. No matter how I set it the plane ALWAYS rolls left, even when I hold it to a right side roll and set trim. I got so p****d off that I simply went and tried to land it instead to get the achievement. I did land it eventually, after several tries. Then I noticed that I didnt have the flaps set so that was what was making the landing harder. That and the fact that the hurricane always ends up stalling in a turn even if I set the sensitivity down.

So, how DO I set the trim properly? Or is there just something funky about the mode that im not getting? Please remember also that I do actually play flight sim games on PC so I know what Im doing, I just cant get it to work in this game.

You may appreciate this or just find it plain annoying, but the reason you can't trim out that roll is because of how realistic the game is. The reason you're rolling is due to engine torque, and British fighters didn't have trim for the ailerons. You can only trim your rudder and elevators. It is possible to trim your rudder to counter the roll, but I've found that if you trim it that hard it's just as annoying as the roll. You just have to get used to constant correction.

[PedroTheGoat]

And the Hurricane is a tough flyer due to how underpowered it is. You really have to keep a close eye on your airspeed.

Hope this helps my friend.

[Lexandro]

OMG. I knew it had to be something I didnt get ><

Looks like I wont be playing sim mode much then since the only plane I like flying is the Spit. No offence but thats exactly the sort of crap I cant stand in a game, I mean the constant re-adjustment for level flight.

*EDIT* Dont get me wrong though, that level of detail in a game is impressive.

[Soviet Ace]

OMG. I knew it had to be something I didnt get ><

Looks like I wont be playing sim mode much then since the only plane I like flying is the Spit. No offence but thats exactly the sort of crap I cant stand in a game, I mean the constant re-adjustment for level flight.

You do realize, that no plane flies straight and level right? Unless the pilot keeps the controls that way, then it will, but by itself, the plane goes where it wants. I suggest flying the Yak-3, it have very little problems with keeping it straight and level.... at least for me :D

[PedroTheGoat]

OMG. I knew it had to be something I didnt get ><

Looks like I wont be playing sim mode much then since the only plane I like flying is the Spit. No offence but thats exactly the sort of crap I cant stand in a game, I mean the constant re-adjustment for level flight.

*EDIT* Dont get me wrong though, that level of detail in a game is impressive.

Try trimming the rudder until you can fly level and see if that is better for you before you give up my friend.

It must have been a pain in the ass for those the guys who flew these things in WWII.

[PedroTheGoat]

You do realize, that no plane flies straight and level right? Unless the pilot keeps the controls that way, then it will, but by itself, the plane goes where it wants. I suggest flying the Yak-3, it have very little problems with keeping it straight and level.... at least for me :D

Or the La - 7. The La - 7 is my beautiful baby.

[Soviet Ace]

Or the La - 7. The La - 7 is my beautiful baby.

That's true also. I think the Yak-1 is the only one that gives me a bit of trouble, but longer wingspans do that at times?

[Lexandro]

Its a bit of a bugger for me as Im usually the guy that dives right in at the deep end and goes "full sim" with a game after I pick up the basics. Even realistic is a pain in the backside for me atm due to not having a stick. And to make matters worse there are absolutely NO sticks on sale in my area, and the two major stockist in my area (GAME/GAMESTATION) dont have any for online purchase in the whole of the UK.

And I wont buy from fleabay, I only buy from reputable sites as listed above.

[PedroTheGoat]

That's true also. I think the Yak-1 is the only one that gives me a bit of trouble, but longer wingspans do that at times?

Yak 3 would be my second plane of choice.

I'm not a fan of the Yak 9T though.

[PedroTheGoat]

Its a bit of a bugger for me as Im usually the guy that dives right in at the deep end and goes "full sim" with a game after I pick up the basics. Even realistic is a pain in the backside for me atm due to not having a stick. And to make matters worse there are absolutely NO sticks on sale in my area, and the two major stockist in my area (GAME/GAMESTATION) dont have any for online purchase in the whole of the UK.

And I wont buy from fleabay, I only buy from reputable sites as listed above.

I think you can buy an AV8R directly from the manufacturer. I got mine from eBay with no issues. I've actually never had an issue with eBay. I always use power sellers though. I never bid on crap either. I only use buy now option.

[Soviet Ace]

I think you can buy an AV8R directly from the manufacturer. I got mine from eBay with no issues. I've actually never had an issue with eBay. I always use power sellers though. I never bid on crap either. I only use buy now option.

AV8Rs seem to be the best for me as well. I got my at Amazon, and had no problem(s) with getting it at all.

[Lexandro]

Heres a funny question; Do planes with nose mounted weapons have easier to handle recoil? Like the hurri/spit always kick left & right from wing mounted gunfire, do any plane NOT do this when firing?

[PedroTheGoat]

Heres a funny question; Do planes with nose mounted weapons have easier to handle recoil? Like the hurri/spit always kick left & right from wing mounted gunfire, do any plane NOT do this when firing?

La 7, Yak 3, Spit IX, and Spit XVI are all pretty stable firing planes.

La 5fn has some stability issues, as does the Hurri and Mk II. Along with I 153 and I 16.

[Lexandro]

Ill give the MkIX a whirl in training mode and see how that is. Ive been doing most of my sim pratice with the hurri since I need to actually DO the tutorial to unlock the mode.

[Soviet Ace]

Heres a funny question; Do planes with nose mounted weapons have easier to handle recoil? Like the hurri/spit always kick left & right from wing mounted gunfire, do any plane NOT do this when firing?

La 7, Yak 3, Spit IX, and Spit XVI are all pretty stable firing planes.

La 5fn has some stability issues, as does the Hurri and Mk II. Along with I 153 and I 16.

The La-5FN does have more recoil, which rises the nose, but to compensate, I usually point the nose just below the target, and let loose as the nose rises up and I pound cannon rounds into the 109 or 190?

[Lexandro]

Finaly did the tutorial, but it was a major pain the neck. I eventually figured out I could use the map like a radar to try and "find" my instructor once he dived. I did end up in a spin however that I simply wasnt able to recover from. I went from 10k feet and crashed, all the while trying to counter the spin but it simply didnt work.

Ive gave the Spit MkIX and the BF 109 G4 a whirl in training and I kinda like the G4 for ease of flying compared to the spit. I dunno what it is but its not as hard to keep stable as the Spit. Plus the recoil didnt seem to bad from the V-cockpit view. Ive managed to find and shoot down a Boston on Sim 3 times now, so Im starting to get somewhere. I know for a fact though I would TOTALLY suck online or in the campaign unless I get a stick.

Going to now go through the Ruskie planes and see what ones I like.

*EDIT* Tried out the Yaks (arrrrwwmmmmmooooooouugh! lol) I quite like the 3, its pretty nifty. The recoil is managable, it turns pretty well with a bit of reduced elevators, and it looks not to shabby either. 9t felt about the same but was a wee bit weird, couldnt put my finger on it but it wasnt as nice to fly as the 3.

[BeaverCompany01]

Oh by the way Pedro..........................


The Canadians are not coming......................not yet anyways.......................I just hope EVENTUALLY!

You may enjoy your stay at the top just a little longer.

[Soviet Ace]

Finaly did the tutorial, but it was a major pain the neck. I eventually figured out I could use the map like a radar to try and "find" my instructor once he dived. I did end up in a spin however that I simply wasnt able to recover from. I went from 10k feet and crashed, all the while trying to counter the spin but it simply didnt work.

Ive gave the Spit MkIX and the BF 109 G4 a whirl in training and I kinda like the G4 for ease of flying compared to the spit. I dunno what it is but its not as hard to keep stable as the Spit. Plus the recoil didnt seem to bad from the V-cockpit view. Ive managed to find and shoot down a Boston on Sim 3 times now, so Im starting to get somewhere. I know for a fact though I would TOTALLY suck online or in the campaign unless I get a stick.

Going to now go through the Ruskie planes and see what ones I like.

*EDIT* Tried out the Yaks (arrrrwwmmmmmooooooouugh! lol) I quite like the 3, its pretty nifty. The recoil is managable, it turns pretty well with a bit of reduced elevators, and it looks not to shabby either. 9t felt about the same but was a wee bit weird, couldnt put my finger on it but it wasnt as nice to fly as the 3.

That would be because the Yak-9T was heavier, same engine and all, but it was heavier than the Yak-3 which I believe was the lightest Yak during WW2 ;)

[Lexandro]

Its heavier? Thats weird, because the description made me think it was lighter because it mentions more aluminium used in its construction and the fact it has one less gun (and therefor less ammo to carry).

[Soviet Ace]

Its heavier? Thats weird, because the description made me think it was lighter because it mentions more aluminium used in its construction and the fact it has one less gun (and therefor less ammo to carry).

Your right, but since the Yak-9T is used for attacking tanks, it did actually carry more ammunition than the Yak-3, which the Yak-3 was also smaller and shorter than the Yak-9T, and the other variants.

[Wissam24]

Is there a reason why the I-16's prop dies if you have the audacity to so much as move the plane

[PedroTheGoat]

Is there a reason why the I-16's prop dies if you have the audacity to so much as move the plane

Many of the earlier planes in the war used caurberators. When these planes are in a negative G environment then they would lose all fuel pressure. (I think)

So anytime you dive your engine may stall.

[King Jareth]

Its a bit of a bugger for me as Im usually the guy that dives right in at the deep end and goes "full sim" with a game after I pick up the basics. Even realistic is a pain in the backside for me atm due to not having a stick. And to make matters worse there are absolutely NO sticks on sale in my area, and the two major stockist in my area (GAME/GAMESTATION) dont have any for online purchase in the whole of the UK.

And I wont buy from fleabay, I only buy from reputable sites as listed above.

I got mine from Play.com but they arent listing them any more.
heres one on amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Saitek-Aviator-Joystick-Xbox-360/dp/B001EYU1W8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1253087313&sr=8-3) but its £40.

[El Hadji]

@The Goat: Here is the result of putting your Flying Lesson up on my webpage. I have altered some minor details. If you find anything wrong, please let me know. I also played with your Avatar a bit, adding a Wilcox flying helmet. Hope you don't mind... ;)

http://xboyz.se/forum/index.php?page=IL-2%20lessons%20with%20PedroTheGoat

[PedroTheGoat]

[QUOTE=El Hadji;101878]@The Goat: Here is the result of putting your Flying Lesson up on my webpage. I have altered some minor details. If you find anything wrong, please let me know. I also played with your Avatar a bit, adding a Wilcox flying helmet. Hope you don't mind... ;)

[url]

Looks awesome! This Goat loves it. :)

[fuzzychickens]

Many of the earlier planes in the war used caurberators. When these planes are in a negative G environment then they would lose all fuel pressure. (I think)

So anytime you dive your engine may stall.

Which also means if you happen to find yourself slow with an I-16 on your arse, do a hard bunt, then roll over and do a half loop in the other direction.

I-16 player will HAVE to roll first and do a loop. You make things very difficult for I-16 pilot and will buy you some time to build speed and get separation.

If this were a Microsoft combat sim, none of these finer details would have made it in, and most of the flight models would be BS. IL2 series only has a few questionable flight models - so I'm happy a developer is so dedicated to historical accuracy and detail.

Seems like most everything about the pc flight models is left intact on consoles - minus the weird adjustments for control surface sensitivity.

[fuzzychickens]

La 7, Yak 3, Spit IX, and Spit XVI are all pretty stable firing planes.

La 5fn has some stability issues, as does the Hurri and Mk II. Along with I 153 and I 16.

I've always wondered how realistic the stability was from plane to plane in the IL2 series.

Some of the german planes with nose mounted guns seem to shake too much. Planes like the Yak-3 have very little recoil for such a small plane - always suspected that was off.

[Soviet Ace]

I've always wondered how realistic the stability was from plane to plane in the IL2 series.

Some of the german planes with nose mounted guns seem to shake too much. Planes like the Yak-3 have very little recoil for such a small plane - always suspected that was off.

It's not. The Yak-3 was one of the best Soviet gun platforms, they had, and even created. They had little recoil, and the pilots that flew them, said that the Yak-3 was a gem to fly because of it.

[PedroTheGoat]

It's not. The Yak-3 was one of the best Soviet gun platforms, they had, and even created. They had little recoil, and the pilots that flew them, said that the Yak-3 was a gem to fly because of it.

Yak 3 gives me no hugely bad recoil in the game. Once again though, it's not as stable as my La 7

[PedroTheGoat]

Bump for nerfman.

[nurfman]

Bump for nerfman.

Lol i was just thinking man this guy can type and when i saw pedro the goat had replied id assume it was your standard search the threads reply ....which i did just not very well.....Your a Champiiiion

[edal86]

Many of the earlier planes in the war used caurberators. When these planes are in a negative G environment then they would lose all fuel pressure. (I think)

So anytime you dive your engine may stall.

interesting, that gets rid of that doubt thanks very much.

By the way, you know much about these planes, is there a book you can recommend me to get more familiar with ww2 planes? I have one already but it has mainly superficial information about ww1 & ww2 aircraft and pretty pictures lol. thanks in advance.

[PedroTheGoat]

interesting, that gets rid of that doubt thanks very much.

By the way, you know much about these planes, is there a book you can recommend me to get more familiar with ww2 planes? I have one already but it has mainly superficial information about ww1 & ww2 aircraft and pretty pictures lol. thanks in advance.

I, actually, am not the one you want to ask about true WWII aviation. Nearly all the knowledge I have has been picked up from these forums. I have always been an aviation fan, but my knowledge is truly not that deep.

Ask guys like Soviet Ace and others for some good reading. LA Smack is also one to ask, he's a personal friend of mine and knows TONS about good WWII aviation reading. This Goat... Not so much.

[Ancient Seraph]

This will increase your turn radius and increase the envelope you have before you hit a stall.
I think you mean rate of turn, because else you just told everyone a B17 would be awesome in dogfighting due to it's huge turn radius :rolleyes:. Turn radius would be the distance travelled in a turn: a small one is most useful. Rate of turn is an indication as to how fast your heading changes: a big one is most useful.
Thought I'd point it out to avoid confusion ;).
Nice guide btw. Playing realistic now due to laziness, but I think I might start sim soon, although my teammates might start to hate me for being unable to identify a friendly :rolleyes:.

[TonyPilot]

Hi everyone!
Question: Il 2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey -Don't found that the plane have too much pitching movement during navigation and the manovers? I have see many video inside the cockpit of Spitfire and other planes of IIWW and I have see the the manover and the navigation (in the good wether) are more stable respect the game?

[Ancient Seraph]

Hi everyone!
Question: Il 2 Sturmovik:Birds of Prey -Don't found that the plane have too much pitching movement during navigation and the manovers? I have see many video inside the cockpit of Spitfire and other planes of IIWW and I have see the the manover and the navigation (in the good wether) are more stable respect the game?
Are you saying the game or the RL is more stable? Both would make sense in a way.
The fighters were designed to be quite unstable, so it would be hard to fly them in a very straight line => RL could be less stable.
However, in an airplane you have way more feel for what the plane is doing, and the pilots had a longer training than us gamers => The game could be less stable.
It's hard to compare games and RL in any situation, but especially with flying the lack of feeling has a big impact.

[PurplePenguin04]

Playing realistic now due to laziness, but I think I might start sim soon, although my teammates might start to hate me for being unable to identify a friendly :rolleyes:.

I was worried about this at first too but decided to jump into a sim game anyway. It turns out that when you play a team game that everyone gets markings on their planes to tell teams apart. Both the right wing and the fuselage, just before the tail, have a color stripe on them. Blue for team B and red for team A. You may have to get a little closer than you're used to to see the markings but if you look for them they are easy enough to see.

I am using an SD TV and am able to see them, I'm sure an HD TV would make it a bit easier.

Does this game have friendly fire online?

[King Jareth]

Blue for team B and red for team A.

I thought it was friendly always blue enemy always red?

[Dubbedinenglish]

I was worried about this at first too but decided to jump into a sim game anyway. It turns out that when you play a team game that everyone gets markings on their planes to tell teams apart. Both the right wing and the fuselage, just before the tail, have a color stripe on them. Blue for team B and red for team A. You may have to get a little closer than you're used to to see the markings but if you look for them they are easy enough to see.

I am using an SD TV and am able to see them, I'm sure an HD TV would make it a bit easier.

Does this game have friendly fire online?
Or if you have mics you can simply ask your teammates to fire their guns....Easier then getting an angle on a teammate and possible being food for a single enemy.

[Ancient Seraph]

I was worried about this at first too but decided to jump into a sim game anyway. It turns out that when you play a team game that everyone gets markings on their planes to tell teams apart. Both the right wing and the fuselage, just before the tail, have a color stripe on them. Blue for team B and red for team A. You may have to get a little closer than you're used to to see the markings but if you look for them they are easy enough to see.
Does this game have friendly fire online?
I know about the markings.. guess I should just try it out sometime. Friendly fire is on, sometimes unfortunately. Just now I was playing a game where a certain someone would buzz in when you were on someone's six and try to shoot the crap out of your target. Problem was, he kind of sucked an didn't lead very well, which caused some of the bullets to hit me instead:-|. People should stop shouldershooting.
I thought it was friendly always blue enemy always red?
This is indeed the case.

[PurplePenguin04]

I thought it was friendly always blue enemy always red?

Hey, I learned something new today! I just assumed that B was always blue because I always ended up on team B. I haven't played much online, I still have a lot to learn.