Spitfire mk ia >>not!!!<< mk iib

[Werner Molders]

Hi everyone,

don't take this as strongly as i have worded it please

I intend to get a response from someone who has developed IL2 but would like anyone who is interested to join my aggravation. My grandfather was in the RAF and was a proud person with a DFC. His name and colleagues did not fight to see a Russian company develop a game which is unrealistic to what happened in the most decisive aerial combat in history. Just like the debate about the Spitfire being the saviour of the Battle of Britain. It wasn't, the Hurricane would've won with greater losses. RADAR won the Battle of Britain.

This man has pointed out a good point however.


"Can we please have the correctly configured 8 gun Browning .303 armed MkIa or MkIIa Spits for the Battle of Britain campaign?

Cannon armed Spits only made a very small and brief appearance with 19 Sqn during the BoB period, and then again briefly with 92 Sqn after the Battle in November.

The Spitfire featured in the XBOX Live demo and on the website is a MkVb - these did not become operational until Spring '41.

(Sorry, I have posted this elsewhere as a reply before finding this thread - don't mean to be repetitive but want the developers to see this!)"



One squadron (out of over 50 in England) initially experimented with the Spitfire Mk IB with cannon in the opening stages of the Battle of Britain. These aircraft had constant jamming problems in flight with their cannons and had to be changed for normal Mk IA's with normal machine gun armament because of this.

Later the Mk II was introduced with its cannon variant Mk IIB. This did not appear until around the end of the Battle of Britain which was sometime towards the late October/November period.

If IL2 Birds of Prey wishes to be realistic its going have to start by realising that the player should NOT be the one or two lucky people out of a hundred in the RAF with a cannon armed variant but should BE representative of the majority.

ALSO

The Bf 109 E-3 was the most numerous version of the German fighter type to be PRODUCED. However most E-3's were converted to E-4 standard during June. This was the first month of the Battle of Britain and so by mid June the most common variant to be ENCOUNTERED over England was the Bf 109 E-4 as German attacks would utilise this single fighter type the most.


SORT IT OUT PLEASE

[dandymountfarto]

the developers have the battle of britain running from june 1940 to may 1941, which is possibly one reason for its inclusion, along with the mkII 12 gun hurricane. its also been stated that it helps balance the MP action.

just one of a few minor niggles that irritates the purists.

[juz1]

it was done to keep game balance in MP and total contents within acceptable console parameters...

If you want total historical accuracy play BOB next september ish...

oh and lighten the f**k up...people fought and died for freedom and survival...not pedantry about a console game ffs
________
THE GIRLS NEXT DOOR DICUSSION (http://www.tv-gossip.com/girls-next-door/)

[Beliall]

+1 , kudos to you sir


my 2 pence? its only a game!

[PF_Lizard]

His name and colleagues did not fight to see a Russian company develop a game which is unrealistic to what happened in the most decisive aerial combat in history.
lol no you're right. I don't think they did fight for the accuracy of computer games!
Don't worry about it. There are loads of discrepancies in the game. ;)

[Revvin]

Luftwhiner

[havard01]

Hi everyone,

don't take this as strongly as i have worded it please

I intend to get a response from someone who has developed IL2 but would like anyone who is interested to join my aggravation. My grandfather was in the RAF and was a proud person with a DFC. His name and colleagues did not fight to see a Russian company develop a game which is unrealistic to what happened in the most decisive aerial combat in history........

BLAH BLAH BLAH

SORT IT OUT PLEASE

Get a grip! It's a console game!

[Panzergranate]

Actually the Spitfire in question should be renamed the Mk.V.B. as this is what it really is.

Also, why is the MC-202 missing the two underwing 20mm. cannon pods??

Only a few flew without them.

As the MC-204 is indentical in appearance, but has improved performance, they've missed an oportunity to add in another interesting fighter.

[Lexandro]

Its a game not a history lesson. Seriously threads like this are worse than Ferrari "enthusiasts" who bore the arse of you with unwanted facts about the cars and complain about even the slightest discrepancy. And they are ALWAYS people who have never even been in one let alone drive or own one. The fact of the matter is that its a game BASED ON real life events, and not a practical historical lesson.

[Panzergranate]

While I'm at it, why isn't the Defiant and Gloster Gladiator in the game.

I would have also like to at least seen the parked Brewster B-239 Buffaloes of 97 Squadron (AVG), which were grounded at the insistance of the AVG's commander American Group Captain Churchill, which were based at Canterbury from May 1940 onwards.

A letter to Sir Hugh Dowding, chief of fighter command, recommended, "On no account should the Brewster Buffalo be used in combat without severe modifications."

97 Squadron few in the BoB with a mixture of Gloster Gladiators and 8 gun Hurricane Mk.II-B (the Nk.II-A was 12 gunned).

Historically, the Hurricane, Spitfire and Defiant were the principle front line fighters in the BoB with the Spitfires being outnumbered by the other two fighter types at the start of the BoB.

[FOZ_1983]

the developers have the battle of britain running from june 1940 to may 1941, which is possibly one reason for its inclusion, along with the mkII 12 gun hurricane. its also been stated that it helps balance the MP action.

just one of a few minor niggles that irritates the purists.


Erm.... balance the MP??

Yet they have 2 other spitfires in their, and also a biplane that doesnt even have a gun!!


hmmmmm


i smell a rat.

[FOZ_1983]

On a side note -

Panzer these threads are months old, must be waaayyyyy back in the pages, how come your digging them out?

[jkerr419]

Cheers to your Gramps but dude it's just a freaking game. I can hear Churchill now, "We will fight them in the air, on the land, on the Xbox360..."

[FOZ_1983]

Cheers to your Gramps but dude it's just a freaking game. I can hear Churchill now, "We will fight them in the air, on the land, on the Xbox360..."


Glad you said the 360 and not the PS3 (profanity) :-P

[Ancient Seraph]

On a side note -

Panzer these threads are months old, must be waaayyyyy back in the pages, how come your digging them out?

To be honest, I think he's bookmarked the page where the month-old topics are. Not his mistake ofcourse.

[Lexandro]

Erm.... balance the MP??

Yet they have 2 other spitfires in their, and also a biplane that doesnt even have a gun!!


hmmmmm


i smell a rat.

FOZ, the statement was meant in the context of the year limitation option. Planes of the same year are balanced to one another for MP as far as I can tell.

[FOZ_1983]

I dont know mate, i still think some elements are a little odd. I mean realistically how hard is it while making the game, making all the aircraft etc to make a spitfire WITHOUT the cannons? Its not hard at all.

BUT

saying that, i dont mind. I dont use the spit, this is old news from months ago and the games great and any issues the patch will resolve. So these threads can go gather dust again :P lol.

[BigPickle]

if its to balance out MP why is there a tab to select the year timeline :confused:

[Voyager]

The reason there is no Spitfire Mk I is because it was never modeled in the PC version. The Spitfire was added to cover the lend-lease aircraft, and for the North Africa campaigns. Battle of Britain was/is planned to be covered in the new engine sequel to Il-2, so they never covered it in the current engine.

The Hurricane Mk IIb and IIc was another lend-lease. The Hurricane Mk I was used by the Fins in the Winter War. The Bf-109E-4 got in because it was actually an important German fighter in the early stages of the airwar on the Eastern Front: by 1942, it was obsolescent by that time in the West, but it was capable against the I-16's that made up the core of the VVS at that time.

In fact, a lot of the older aircraft that are in there, are there because the Fins were using cast-offs and weird odds and ends during the Winter War.

[FOZ_1983]

but IL2 strives for authenticity....

when they have the models on the drawing board, how hard is it REALLY to select the spit Mk2 and just "chop off" the cannons and replace it with MG's. lets not bullshit each other here, its not to hard at all.

a great game and the best flying game on the console bar none, its suoerb. But theirs no denying that they got lazy in some areas.

[Ghillied raptor]

You're kidding!I paid 70 dollars to feel special:-).Seriously though the option to use MG wouldn't hurt, even if it was added I'd take the cannons anyday.I like the kick:grin:.

[Voyager]

but IL2 strives for authenticity....

when they have the models on the drawing board, how hard is it REALLY to select the spit Mk2 and just "chop off" the cannons and replace it with MG's. lets not bullshit each other here, its not to hard at all.

a great game and the best flying game on the console bar none, its suoerb. But theirs no denying that they got lazy in some areas.

Because it's not "just" chopping off the cannon, and the team that handles flight models is currently (we hope) up to their eyeballs in the next gen engine.

[FOZ_1983]

Because it's not "just" chopping off the cannon, and the team that handles flight models is currently (we hope) up to their eyeballs in the next gen engine.

for the knowledge they have and the money they make - yes it is!!

They had to get the aircraft models anyway, so why not do a few tweaks here and their? many of us have been in party chat on the 360 and had in depth conversations about this and it just doesnt make sense in some areas.

As for the team that handles flight models, i dont want them to e upto their eyeballs in the next gen engine..... i want them to be up to their eyeballs fixing them damn crap flight models they put in this game :D

and the engine of the hurricane...... why is it different to the spitfire and P51?? they both have the same engine in game (merlin) and sound amazing, the hurricane should have it to!! That so hard to address to? No.

rant over.

Like ive said i love this game and i know a patch is coming out, im patient so dont mind waiting. If your on the 360 you should join us for some online games mate, its a good atmosphere and a great bunch who pride themselves on playing properly and fair ;)

[ontheborderland]

RADAR won the Battle of Britain.

For someone so wound up in historical accuracy, this statement is an ENORMOUS over simplification.

[Voyager]

As for why we want the dev team finishing up the next one, well, Oleg posted today. (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=113300&postcount=14)

[Lexandro]

As for why we want the dev team finishing up the next one, well, Oleg posted today. (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=113300&postcount=14)

Wait what? Is that a whole new game or is that BoP on PC?

[Soviet Ace]

For someone so wound up in historical accuracy, this statement is an ENORMOUS over simplification.

Not only that, but it's not correct.

The reason the Brits won, and Germany lost was because Hitler decided to concentrate on the cities and towns rather the AIRFIELDS! like was originally planned. If Hitler had continued his bombing of the British airfields, the RAF would have ceased to be a threat to the Luftwaffe or Germany ground forces; giving them the chance to invade.

In the book, Duel of Eagles by Peter Townsend, who was a British fighter pilot during the Battle of Britain. He explains the whole Summer of 1940 campaign, and how if Hitler had kept his concentration on the airfields, then Britain for sure would have been invaded.

So Radar did not win the Battle of Britain by any means.

[Voyager]

Wait what? Is that a whole new game or is that BoP on PC?

It is the full sequel to the Il-2 Sturmovik franchise.

Basically every Il-2 game since the original Il-2 Sturmovik is based off of essentially the same graphics engine and flight engine, including Birds of Prey, with assorted update, improvements and tweaks. As I understand it, the new game that Maddox Games is working on (currently called Storm of War) is a new graphics engine, flight engine, and damage system, that will succeed the legacy Sturmovik engine.

It will first come out for PC, and will hopefully be ported to console at some point, so you folks can enjoy it too, but it may or may not be able to run on the current generation of consoles. To the best of my knowledge, the plans have not been laid at this point. We don't even know what it's really going to need on the PC side yet, either.

Harry Voyager

[Lexandro]

Hey Im a PC man to you know. I just never really got the chance to get in to IL2 on PC as it was pratically non-existant over here. The stores only stocked MS combat flight sim, or modern jet games. But that baby looks saaaawwwweeeeeeeeeeeettttt. So when that hits PC's Ill be all over it like a cheap hooker with a millionare John.

[FOZ_1983]

Not only that, but it's not correct.

The reason the Brits won, and Germany lost was because Hitler decided to concentrate on the cities and towns rather the AIRFIELDS! like was originally planned. If Hitler had continued his bombing of the British airfields, the RAF would have ceased to be a threat to the Luftwaffe or Germany ground forces; giving them the chance to invade.

In the book, Duel of Eagles by Peter Townsend, who was a British fighter pilot during the Battle of Britain. He explains the whole Summer of 1940 campaign, and how if Hitler had kept his concentration on the airfields, then Britain for sure would have been invaded.

So Radar did not win the Battle of Britain by any means.


this debate could go any number of ways.

For me personally i find the following won up the battle of britain -

RADAR

Spitfire

Hurricane

109's only having enough fuel for 20 mins combat over england

HE111's not having escorts all the way to targets and back

Our pilots getting shot down being able to get another plane and fight, the luftwaffe on the other hand become POW

Piss poor desicions by the german high command regarding targets

"Spotters" of the home guard along the coast

limey pride and attitude

Those damn nice strawberries during the summer of 40 and the great home baked bread, cracking i tell the!! :grin:

Pilots from all nations even those not in the war yet, comnig to our iad and fighting for the RAF.

luck

[Soviet Ace]

this debate could go any number of ways.

For me personally i find the following won up the battle of britain -

RADAR

Spitfire

Hurricane

109's only having enough fuel for 20 mins combat over england

HE111's not having escorts all the way to targets and back

Our pilots getting shot down being able to get another plane and fight, the luftwaffe on the other hand become POW

Piss poor desicions by the german high command regarding targets

"Spotters" of the home guard along the coast

limey pride and attitude

Those damn nice strawberries during the summer of 40 and the great home baked bread, cracking i tell the!! :grin:

Pilots from all nations even those not in the war yet, comnig to our iad and fighting for the RAF.

luck

True.;)

[Lexandro]

You missed a few;

Skill, the pilots still had to have the skill to take on the battle hardened germans and survive

A large set of testicles, because only the likes of Douglas Badder would want to get back in a plane after loosing his legs.

Scotland, because we helped out a lot and didnt get much credit at all (we never do).

Ingenuity, Britain made massive strides in warfare and battle planning thanks to genious ideas.

The man from the post office, who invented the "counting machine". (name him and the machine to win the interwebs)

[Ancient Seraph]

You missed a few;

Skill, the pilots still had to have the skill to take on the battle hardened germans and survive

A large set of testicles, because only the likes of Douglas Badder would want to get back in a plane after loosing his legs.

Scotland, because we helped out a lot and didnt get much credit at all (we never do).

Ingenuity, Britain made massive strides in warfare and battle planning thanks to genious ideas.

The man from the post office, who invented the "counting machine". (name him and the machine to win the interwebs)

I do not completely agree with those. The german He-111 pilots must've had a lot of balls as well to fly unescorted to the UK. And I'm pretty sure there were a lot of skilled pilots on the German side, but they could only fly for 20 mins over Britain.

[FOZ_1983]

anybody that gets in the air to dogfight back then had balls.

Except the russians, they didnt even realise they were airbourne, they were to pissed on vodka hahaha :P