Soviet Aircraft!! Questions/Answers.

[Soviet Ace]

I just figured, that it would be better to put all the Soviet Aircraft questions (anything question(s) you have). Just so we don't have everything being asked in one thread and another. Keep it orderly.

Anyway, responding to David's post about the Yak-3 and FW-190 roll rate. In my book, and several others I have. The Yak-3 was even with the earlier FWs ie FWA2-3-4-5. But once they came out with the later ones that were bomber capable. Their roll rate wasn't as good as before, and the Yak-3s could tear into them. (I really wish I had a scanner so I could show some pages.)

BOOK LINK: Yakolev's Piston Engined Fighter (http://www.amazon.com/Yakovlevs-Piston-Engined-Fighters-Red-Star/dp/1857801407)

[SirBruce]

Were so good the planes and pilots from Russia as they appear in the game? I supposed they had old planes and not so trained men for them. Maybe there was a really fast evolution in the year since the first German wave and the post winter one, but... so big?

[Swagger7]

Were so good the planes and pilots from Russia as they appear in the game? I supposed they had old planes and not so trained men for them. Maybe there was a really fast evolution in the year since the first German wave and the post winter one, but... so big?

The Russian planes were actually pretty good. (on par with Germany/Britain/America) The I-16, not so much, but it was old. I'm pretty sure Soviet pilots didn't get as much training as other countries' pilots early on (they were desperate) but they taught new pilots tactics that were easy to employ, like flying the whole mission at high speed to avoid getting jumped from behind and making slashing attacks, then bugging out. After the pilots got experience this way they were given more training in tactics. At least that's what I read from a translated interview with a Soviet ace. I'm not sure how widespread this form of "on the job" training was or how long it lasted. Do you have any idea, Soviet Ace?

[Soviet Ace]

Were so good the planes and pilots from Russia as they appear in the game? I supposed they had old planes and not so trained men for them. Maybe there was a really fast evolution in the year since the first German wave and the post winter one, but... so big?

At first, the Red Air Force was nothing but some guys with little flying experience. Some were either veterans from the war in Spain, or fighting in later 1937-38 against the Japanese during their little border war in Manchuria. So when WW2 broke out, the Luftwaffe went straight for the airfield, destroying every plane they could fire at. But those who did get to make it through the 41' offensive blitz, they were all pulled back and retrained in new tactics. Like during 1942 when all the machine factories were pulled behind the Ural mountains etc. out of range of any German bomber/fighter, then the pilots and planes became exceptional. So by 1942, the Red Air Force was becoming more determined with moral and better equipped and agile planes.


The Russian planes were actually pretty good. (on par with Germany/Britain/America) The I-16, not so much, but it was old. I'm pretty sure Soviet pilots didn't get as much training as other countries' pilots early on (they were desperate) but they taught new pilots tactics that were easy to employ, like flying the whole mission at high speed to avoid getting jumped from behind and making slashing attacks, then bugging out. After the pilots got experience this way they were given more training in tactics. At least that's what I read from a translated interview with a Soviet ace. I'm not sure how widespread this form of "on the job" training was or how long it lasted. Do you have any idea, Soviet Ace?

Most Russian planes later like the Yak-3, Yak-9, La-5, were all more or less more capable than the FWs that they were up against. Basically any German plane you put up against them, they were more likely to win. The Yak-3 could out turn, out roll, and climb better than the FW-190A3 and out roll and turn the other later FWs that it came up against. But against the 109s, that was were the La-5s (Though still a low-medium altitude plane) came into play. They could poor heavier cannon rounds into the 109s. And actually, the 109s and 190s did avoid turning combat with the I-16s since the little plane could pull tighter than both. The MiG-3 though it may look fast, was actually quite slow and was often chewed up against its 109 and 190 counterparts.

[Smudgyboy]

I love this forum, not only do you get tips on gaming but you also widen your knowledge about WW2..

..kin fantastic chaps

[mondo]

Most Russian planes later like the Yak-3, Yak-9, La-5, were all more or less more capable than the FWs that they were up against. Basically any German plane you put up against them, they were more likely to win. The Yak-3 could out turn, out roll, and climb better than the FW-190A3 and out roll and turn the other later FWs that it came up against.

Your statement is so utterly blanket and incorrect I don't know where to start.

No Yak 3 ever fought an 190A3. They are not even comparable as they never saw each other in combat. Your comparing an extemely late war aircraft, most of which were build after the war finished against an early war variant which were all but retired by the introduction of the Yak 3.

A3's were getting put up against Lagg3's, Yak1's and 7's (which were all inferior to A3's and 4's they would have met in all but turning circle). A Yak 3 was more likely to meet an A8 or D9 which both could roll with the Yak3 easily and the D9 edges past the Yak3 in quite few different areas of performance, unless your talking about post war varients.

Depending on the subvarient of 190 the roll rate actually got better as versions were introduced. The D9 could easily our roll a Yak 3 through out the speed range, especially as the speed range increased. Then there is diving, the whole Yak series were poor divers due to there weight and power or lack of and in many cases poor build quality.

Just check out the spitfireperformance site for actual performance test results.

[Buggins]

Your statement is so utterly blanket and incorrect I don't know where to start.

No Yak 3 ever fought an 190A3. They are not even comparable as they never saw each other in combat. Your comparing an extemely late war aircraft, most of which were build after the war finished against an early war variant which were all but retired by the introduction of the Yak 3.

A3's were getting put up against Lagg3's, Yak1's and 7's (which were all inferior to A3's and 4's they would have met in all but turning circle). A Yak 3 was more likely to meet an A8 or D9 which both could roll with the Yak3 easily and the D9 edges past the Yak3 in quite few different areas of performance, unless your talking about post war varients.

Depending on the subvarient of 190 the roll rate actually got better as versions were introduced. The D9 could easily our roll a Yak 3 through out the speed range, especially as the speed range increased. Then there is diving, the whole Yak series were poor divers due to there weight and power or lack of and in many cases poor build quality.

Just check out the spitfireperformance site for actual performance test results.

Owned!

[SirBruce]

I really was owned in the second Russian mission, when I heard an Spanish guy speaking (ok, I have the Spanish version). I suppose that he is a veteran from the republican army in Spain that ended fighting in the side of russians in Stalingrad. A good argument if it would have been developed trough the game. Really.

[Soviet Ace]

Your statement is so utterly blanket and incorrect I don't know where to start.

No Yak 3 ever fought an 190A3. They are not even comparable as they never saw each other in combat. Your comparing an extemely late war aircraft, most of which were build after the war finished against an early war variant which were all but retired by the introduction of the Yak 3.

A3's were getting put up against Lagg3's, Yak1's and 7's (which were all inferior to A3's and 4's they would have met in all but turning circle). A Yak 3 was more likely to meet an A8 or D9 which both could roll with the Yak3 easily and the D9 edges past the Yak3 in quite few different areas of performance, unless your talking about post war varients.

Depending on the subvarient of 190 the roll rate actually got better as versions were introduced. The D9 could easily our roll a Yak 3 through out the speed range, especially as the speed range increased. Then there is diving, the whole Yak series were poor divers due to there weight and power or lack of and in many cases poor build quality.

Just check out the spitfireperformance site for actual performance test results.

One thing you don't understand, is that the A8 could not roll with a Yak-3. The Yak-3 was primarily and always built for dogfighting, where the FWA8 was used as a fighter/bomber. Now that it was a bomber as well, it takes away the roll rate since it's heavier, and more armored. I used the FWA3 and Yak-3 because both were light and had good roll rates over their counterparts. So in theory, and from what their statistics are, if a Yak-3 were to go up against a FWA3, it could be a pretty fair and even dogfight. Both were lightly armored, and had fast speeds, which in a true dogfight you want in your fighter.

And your statement of Yak-3s going up against D9s is absolutely wrong. No Yak-3 ever flew its maximum height, and no D9 unless the pilot was an idiot flew below or at 5,000-6,000 ft. where the Yak-3 owned the skies. No German fighter could roll with a Yak-3 unless it was like a FWA3 or another early FW.

So until you understand your specs and have read up on the Yak-3, please don't come on my thread and try to tell me what I know to be true. Soviet pilots who flew Yak-3s do not lie.

Understand your Soviet Aircraft, then come on here and have a reasonable chat. Don't come on here and try to be rude. I've been learning about Soviet Aircraft for many many years, and have bought and read many books and memoirs of Soviet pilots and planes.

[juz1]

:-DFight! Fight! Fight!:grin:
________
Honda f.c. history (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_F.C.)

[Soviet Ace]

:-DFight! Fight! Fight!:grin:

Please, if you don't have anything to contribute to the thread. Please don't post this spam. Seriously I don't get angry over the net, but I can get irritated.

[juz1]

Please, if you don't have anything to contribute to the thread. Please don't post this spam. Seriously I don't get angry over the net, but I can get irritated.

easy tiger, I am actually curious as to what you have to say on Russian planes as there's many gaps in western media...

as for "fight,fight,fight" its a chant you'll hear on playgrounds the world over....be cool:cool:
________
Detroit automobile company (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Detroit_Automobile_Company)

[Soviet Ace]

easy tiger, I am actually curious as to what you have to say on Russian planes as there's many gaps in western media...

as for "fight,fight,fight" its a chant you'll hear on playgrounds the world over....be cool:cool:

Don't worry, it was to early in the morning to get irritated. :P And also, in the last few years, a lot of information has come out on Russian fighters during WW2. I believe, it was a Westerner who asked Yakovlev to make a flyable Yak-3 in the first place.

[BadByte]

FWA8 was used as a fighter/bomber. Now that it was a bomber as well, it takes away the roll rate since it's heavier, and more armored.
Sure your not thinking about the F8?, A8 I belive was pure fighter while F8 was the fighter/bomber.

[Soviet Ace]

Sure your not thinking about the F8?, A8 I belive was pure fighter while F8 was the fighter/bomber.

A8s were also bomber capable. The F series was mostly bombers, by then they had little fighter characteristics besides their look.

[browntrout79]

What's with the Soviet gunsights? I love the planes, (even the I-16) but I cant hit a darn thing w/ that gunsight, way to cluttered.

[Soviet Ace]

What's with the Soviet gunsights? I love the planes, (even the I-16) but I cant hit a darn thing w/ that gunsight, way to cluttered.

Funny, I was just talking to my friend who owns BoP (Thanks to my constant annoyance of telling him to buy it.) But anyway, this was a real problem for the pilots of the Red Air Force, but they took it as a bit of an advantage. Which was the top part of the windscreen, they would use to identify their targets, fly close enough and then once they turned towards their target, their gunsight was filled with the enemy's plane, and they could just tear into them. I did and do it all the time, works fine. But besides the weak forward view, I think besides the Yaks and Las, the I-16 has the best overall view to the sides and above.

[browntrout79]

Im having trouble "filling my sight" with the enemy planes..... My best bet is to pop a few long range shots, 70-80 meters, and slow them down a bit. Nothing better than hitting them once or twice, then flying close enough to see a Diamler-Benz not spinning!! Horray, easy kill now!! Personal style I guess, the game still seems "jumpy" when I try and get one lined up in close.... Guess just practice..

[Soviet Ace]

Well going up against 109s, you want to get them so that they'll get into a turning fight. That fight, you are sure to win. The I-16 could out turn any German 109. At least the early E, F, and G2s. Not sure if it went up against G6s since they were sorta phased out. But what I do against the Heinkel, is my of own little genius. What I do, is fly at a altitude where I'm below the 109s, but above the Heinkel. Dive on the Heinkel, firing at the first one in your sights. Then just let them pass, don't level off or anything. The 109s by this time will be chasing you, but since your at a lower altitude, you can easily get away and get on their six. That's if you get one on your tail. But if you don't pass the Heinkel bombers, then without climbing to their altitude, just enough so their in gun range, fire at the first couple, downing them hopefully before making a rolling dive towards the earth, the 109s will probably be tangling with some of the other I-16s at the lower altitude, so they should be easy pickings. Just keep it below 5-6,000 feet and you should be good.

[Soviet Ace]

Those interested in hearing what a I-16 RATA sound like for real, when it starts. Here you go. I'm still trying to find an authentic Yak-3, without the Allison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myyLFS5TN78

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y51F59LSDE

[BadByte]

First one could have fooled me sounded like a tractor engine

[Patchou]

From what I've heard, Soviet late war fighters such as Yak-3 were outstanding fighters and easily out manoeuver 190 and 109 at low altitude

But german 109 and 190s were mostly designed for high altitudes (we usually don't fight so high in the game)

Well, Soviet's ones are not considered as the bests fighter of WW2 because of their reliability, problems with engine/ structures...etc Such things that we cannot see in the game. Late war German fighters were much more well built

[manintrees]

I love this game!

[Ancient Seraph]

Those interested in hearing what a I-16 RATA sound like for real, when it starts. Here you go. I'm still trying to find an authentic Yak-3, without the Allison.

(movies)

Damn... Those thing are uglier in RL than in game :P.

[beaker126]

Hey Soviet Ace, I was wondering if you could point me to a good book about the Russian experience with the P-39&P-63 Airacobra/Kingcobra. The U.S. didn't really use a lot of them but I've read the Russians took most of them off our hands, to the tune of something like 80% of the production numbers. There's so little written about the type in the west, since we didn't use it much, but it's always been a favorite of mine and I'd like to know more about it.:cool: