No cockpit view for german planes???

[cydno]

Hi everyone,

Sorry if I am posting a double thread... but...

I have read in a french article concerning BoP multiplayer, that there will be no cockpit view when playing the german planes... :confused:

for those who understand french here is the link: http://www.micromania.fr/zooms/index.php?ref=39136&typezoom=Preview

Is this true??? Or, have I missed something? Is there any thread concerning this?

Thx

[thorsten.ja]

oh, i don´t hope so. :confused:

[Danny M NL]

I've read through the article, although my french isn't that good ( only had it for two years in school, then I switched to german, which I can read better than french), but as far as I can tell there is no mention of missing cockpits in multiplayer.

edit: completely missed the first part of the article, you're referencing to this part right?
"Les appareils allemands se limitant au multijoueur. Et, grosse déception, ces appareils "germains" n'auront pas de cockpit. "

seems to me like a really strange choice to make by the dev team and I assume this was only the case in the preview version. most preview versions of games only contain a few levels and unfinished multiplayer things. I think this is the case for this preview version too.

[Jasta 6]

hopefully there will be more planes with cockpits than just the ones you fly in the campaign missions, but if not maybe they can release the rest as DLC?

[cydno]

The writer must be misinformed then....

Anyway I think it's not possible because Anton said that all 3 lmodes would be playable on multiplayer. And Sim mode implies only cockpit view so...

There must be a mistake! (hope so...)

[H Lecter]

I've read through the article, although my french isn't that good ( only had it for two years in school, then I switched to german, which I can read better than french), but as far as I can tell there is no mention of missing cockpits in multiplayer.

Toutefois, en solo, seuls les alliés seront jouables. Les appareils allemands se limitant au multijoueur. Et, grosse déception, ces appareils "germains" n'auront pas de cockpit.

I'm afraid it's true. The german planes are only playable in multiplayer and won't have a cockpit :(:confused::(

[trk29]

I'm afraid it's true. The german planes are only playable in multiplayer and won't have a cockpit :(:confused::(

Anton said all planes would be flyable in free flight (training).

[cydno]

edit: completely missed the first part of the article, you're referencing to this part right?
"Les appareils allemands se limitant au multijoueur. Et, grosse déception, ces appareils "germains" n'auront pas de cockpit. "



Yes I am referencing to this part of the article....
Micromania is a great videogames dealer in France and it is supposed to be reliable.

[cydno]

Anton said all planes would be flyable in free flight (training).

Sorry what do you mean "free flight"?

[Danny M NL]

Sorry what do you mean "free flight"?

probably just cruising around shooting AI planes without any mission, sortoff like quick mission in the original IL2.

[trk29]

Sorry what do you mean "free flight"?

Anton said the planes would be available to fly in free flight, or training missions where you can just fly around or set your loadout of whatever you want it to be.

[Skii]

Can't see it being true as it would turn a large proportion of the IL2 fanbase away (including me) ..... mind you I don't recall seeing any cockpit shots of any german aircraft up till now.. :confused: :(

[SleepTrgt]

The writer must be misinformed then....

Anyway I think it's not possible because Anton said that all 3 lmodes would be playable on multiplayer. And Sim mode implies only cockpit view so...

There must be a mistake! (hope so...)

Sim mode also includes Virtual Cockpit!

So this might be pretty bad news!

[trk29]

Here is the thread that talks about it.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8613


originally posted by guiltyspark
i can understand how much work it would have been to model all the cockpits , but what happens when a plane doesnt have a cockpit and you need to fly it?

anton yudintsev
senior member

'virtual cockpit view' only then.

[sasquatch]

Can't see it being true as it would turn a large proportion of the IL2 fanbase away (including me) .....(

Unfortunately, I think more emphasis was put on the arcade aspects of the game and winning over that audience than was put on sim mode and winning over the traditional flight-sim fans.

I'm still buying and playing the game...and probably playing it for a very long time. It will be my first "sim" that I've played so I'm sure I will enjoy it. Though, I can't help but wonder "what might have been" if compromises hadn't been made for the arcade mode and more emphasis would have been placed on the sim aspect. Even if it is my first "sim", the lack of cockpits for all of the planes is very disappointing and like everyone else here, I pin my hopes on DLC or a sequel.

[cydno]

Here is the thread that talks about it.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8613

Humm... Sorry trk29 I still don't understand what a virtual cockpit view is ;)Can you explain? :grin:

[guiltyspark]

sorry but i will not support this if it is true , i wont buy the game if i cannot fly a bf109 with the cockpit on.

thats just beyond bad decision making

[H Lecter]

Humm... Sorry trk29 I still don't understand what a virtual cockpit view is ;)Can you explain? :grin:

You'll find pictures in this thread (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8770)

[guiltyspark]

i really hope to god this isnt true , the game is broken if this is true

[carbury]

Sim mode also includes Virtual Cockpit!

So this might be pretty bad news!


No Cockpit on German aircraft ?... No..just unbeleivable !
I can not beleive that !!!
It would be really a shame... no...just impossible !
I hope with all my heart that is a misunderstood.
See ya
++

[cydno]

You'll find pictures in this thread (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8770)

Thx H Lecter... if this is a virtual cockpit view then this actually means that we cannot fly a german plane in Sim mode because Sim mode (as I see it) must be played seated in a cockpit.
This also means, I guess, that Sim mode players like me will only be flying allies planes... and this leads to an Allies versus Allies multiplayer battle(with cockpit view)... that sounds weird doesn't it? :rolleyes:

[Roadie]

I think this report was an early preview of the game. I was at the Games Convention in Leipzig last year, and played this game there. The IL2 Sturmovik hasn't a cockpit at this time too.

[cydno]

i hope with all my heart that is a misunderstood.


i really really hope too!!!

[cydno]

I think this report was an early preview of the game. I was at the Games Convention in Leipzig last year, and played this game there. The IL2 Sturmovik hasn't a cockpit at this time too.

Unfortunately, the article I am refering to has been published today, just a few hours ago.
Also the writer is using the future to describe the problem so....

[H Lecter]

Thx H Lecter... if this is a virtual cockpit view then this actually means that we cannot fly a german plane in Sim mode because Sim mode (as I see it) must be played seated in a cockpit.
This also means, I guess, that Sim mode players like me will only be flying allies planes... and this leads to an Allies versus Allies multiplayer battle(with cockpit view)... that sounds weird doesn't it? :rolleyes:

Yep it does. :(

I wish we could get a statement from Anton. But he mentioned something about an NDA with the publisher, so he can only tell what he is allowed to.

I would not be able to refrain from buying IL-2, but it would be a serious disappointment.

[Mr Greezy]

Are...you...serious?

I just bought a friggin' Ace Edge stick for this game and now it doesn't have a major component as to why I'd want to play it?


I can't stand console sometimes. They are so...just...dumb....and...eRehehgrg

I truly hope this is misinformation. That would be such a horrible shame to not have 109 or 190 cockpits. I just see that as completely ridiculous.

I'm seriously pissed. I know, it's a game. But dang. NO COCKPITS FOR GERMAN PLANES?! Even on a gameplay standpoint, that means that in multiplayer if you play for the opposing team you a) don't get the full immersion you should be getting and b) have a SERIOUS advantage over any Allied players.

[trk29]

Humm... Sorry trk29 I still don't understand what a virtual cockpit view is ;)Can you explain? :grin:

Here is a pic

[trk29]

sorry but i will not support this if it is true , i wont buy the game if i cannot fly a bf109 with the cockpit on.

thats just beyond bad decision making

its game development , sacrifices need to be made sometimes. and modeling a cockpit is hard buisness considering the reaserch involved

i would rather have 40 functional planes with a few without cockpits then 8 functioning planes that all have cockpits

What about this post?

[ryan2107]

What I don't understand is that all this stuff has already been researched and released in previous IL2 games. Even if you can't get the actual resources from the other IL2 games, you have an EXACT copy of what you have to do. Look at the cockpit Maddox made and copy it. No research, just one guy that can run a 3D modeling program.

[Raw Kryptonite]

what about this post?
Classic. Epic. Amazing.
LOL

[David603]

I'm with Guiltyspark on this one. No cockpit for the Bf109, no purchase for me. In all previous Il2 games the main plane I have flown is the Bf109 in the cockpit view. If this is true, I will wait until the game is patched to include cockpits for the German planes. Failing this, I will not buy the game and will stick with Il2 1946 until Storm of War is released by the real Il2 developers.

I have not been put off by the lack of controller options, the news that some planes would lack cockpits, the lack of realism in mission layouts, completed planes being cut out deliberately prior to launch for DLC, planes having the wrong cockpits, not being able to customise the difficulty levels, and the lack of a German campaign but this will completely ruin multiplayer for me so I will not buy the game until it is fixed.

[cydno]

Here is a pic

trk29, thank you :grin:

Well, actually this is no cockpit at all... "superman view" would have been a better name for this pic ;)

[Yossarian]

The writer must be misinformed then....

Anyway I think it's not possible because Anton said that all 3 lmodes would be playable on multiplayer. And Sim mode implies only cockpit view so...

There must be a mistake! (hope so...)

We know that not all planes have cockpits, and it kind of makes senses that the ones that you will not be flying in mission or campaign mode are the ones missing them. And you can use virtual cockpit in sim mode, just not external view.

Shame I assumed it would be the bombers only without cockpits, all the ME and FW lovers are going to be disappointed.

[David603]

What about this post?
This isn't a couple of the less important planes not having cockpits. This is every plane on the German side. You would have thought that at the very least the most important German fighter, the Bf109, the fighter built in the largest numbers during WWII and indeed ever, would have a cockpit.

[trk29]

This isn't a couple of the less important planes not having cockpits. This is every plane on the German side. You would have thought that at the very least the most important German fighter, the Bf109, the fighter built in the largest numbers during WWII and indeed ever, would have a cockpit.

I myself loved to fly the 109 in the original IL2, but it not having a cockpit is not going to change my decision on buying the game. I am still getting this game no matter what. And this is all speculation, this has not been confirmed or denied by Anton so everybody shouldn't be getting so upset.

It doesn't make sense to have dogfights with allied and axis on simulation and the axis have the advantage of having a bigger field of view but none of us know if this is true.

I myself thought that the bombers were the ones without a cockpit but that was my speculation.

[David603]

I myself loved to fly the 109 in the original IL2, but it not having a cockpit is not going to change my decision on buying the game. I am still getting this game no matter what. And this is all speculation this has not been confirmed or denied by Anton so everybody shouldn't be getting so upset.

I myself thought that the bombers were the ones without a cockpit but that is my speculation.
Of course, you might be right in that this might not be true because it has not been confirmed by Anton. However, the reason why I would buy this game would be because it would be an improvement at least in some respects over Il2 1946. I'm not buying this game just because I can. If it cannot even match basic features like cockpits then I will stick with 1946, which has far more campaign options in many other theatres, a huge number of aircraft, a campaign/mission editor, replay mode, mods and custom skins, more players online, co-op, more and better flightstick options, etc, etc. The only conceivable advantage Birds of Prey has over 1946 is graphics, and this alone isn't enough to sway me if Birds of Prey is otherwise seriously inferior.

[Jazzy Jase]

If this is true then it will be very disappointing. I will still get the game though. Why? because there's no other option for a WW2 console flight sim and I can't afford a new PC!

Anton, please tell us it's not true! :cry:

[TexRoadkill]

That will really hurt MP games because if you are flying against other pilots who do not have a cockpit then you are at a disadvantage if you use the cockpit view. Therefore MP flying will likely mean no cockpits at all. :(

[Ace Rimmer]

Wow. Hope this isn't true. If I buy this game I'm definitely going to wait at least a week after the release in case there are any other "issues" that come up. I really wanted to fall head over heels in love with this game but it's just not happening :(

Is it me or is there way too much speculation about a game that is being released soon. What are they hiding?

[trk29]

Anton has said there is some stuff he wants to tell us but can't because of publisher. Everybody may not agree but the publisher have their reasons.

[SlappyDingle]

Wow. Hope this isn't true. If I buy this game I'm definitely going to wait at least a week after the release in case there are any other "issues" that come up. I really wanted to fall head over heels in love with this game but it's just not happening :(

Is it me or is there way too much speculation about a game that is being released soon. What are they hiding?

Same here. This list of unfortunate things is getting too long to ignore.

I'm gonna wait and see now...

[Ace Rimmer]

Anton has said there is some stuff he wants to tell us but can't because of publisher. Everybody may not agree but they have publisher has their reasons.

OK I appreciate where he is coming from but Big Red Lights are now going off in my head.....

[Mr Greezy]

Anton has said there is some stuff he wants to tell us but can't because of publisher. Everybody may not agree but they have publisher has their reasons.

It could be because they don't want to turn people away with a lack of things that people would want.


We'll all see, I suppose. I really do hope I'm wrong. I was really looking forward to this game and no German cockpits just really takes the wind out of my sails. Or gas out of my airplane engine, whatever you guys want. Or...steam out of my locomotive. Just stop pestering me.

[Apeboy]

but it not having a cockpit is not going to change my decision on buying the game.

Does mine.

this has not been confirmed or denied by Anton so everybody shouldn't be getting so upset.


Not upset, just going to wait to make sure game has a complete cockpit set and is supported with a patch if necessary. IL-2 has chosen a very competitive time to release a title. Not the the time to release something unfinished with a bunch of promises.

I hope this gets cleared up by 1C soon.

[David603]

Not upset, just going to wait to make sure game has a complete cockpit set and is supported with a patch if necessary. IL-2 has chosen a very competitive time to release a title. Not the the time to release something unfinished with a bunch of promises.

I hope this gets cleared up by 1C soon.
The game is Gold, which means it cannot be changed before launch. The only good solution would be for the devs to produce a patch with the cockpits in the meantime that would be available when the game launched.

[DigitalMan]

Man, I preordered this and everything. I just can't see it being true. A huge dissappointment in my eyes. I'll still buy the game, but wow, big news.

[Ace Rimmer]

Man, I preordered this and everything. I just can't see it being true. A huge dissappointment in my eyes. I'll still buy the game, but wow, big news.

Yeah that's why I never preorder anything. I've been burned before and I swear it'll never happen again. God do I hate being such a pessimist about things like this but $60 is a lot of money nowadays, at least for me.

[Apeboy]

The game is Gold, which means it cannot be changed before launch. The only good solution would be for the devs to produce a patch with the cockpits in the meantime that would be available when the game launched.

Yup.

I've been lurking for quite some time now and recall seeing a post by Anton stating due to the cost of getting additional content out any patch would be released the same time as the DLC. That could be awhile. Longer than I care to wait.

If it turns out that 109 and 190s have a cockpit along with at least the higher profile planes then I'll pick it up. If not I'll be playing mini ninjas or something until it gets worked out.

[Yossarian]

Yeah that's why I never preorder anything. I've been burned before and I swear it'll never happen again. God do I hate being such a pessimist about things like this but $60 is a lot of money nowadays, at least for me.

True, pre-ordering a game is just setting yourself up to be disappointed. I normally wait until the review embargo is over and check out the forums to see what the people that have bought it say before making my final decision. The advantage of this is games normally drop £5-£10 after the first week of being on sale anyway.

Thankfully after playing the demo I knew I would not be buying until they patch the control sticks so I can swap them AND put the stall wind buffeting noise back in anyway.

Smoke me a kipper.......

[SR91 Aurora]

Yeah that's why I never preorder anything. I've been burned before and I swear it'll never happen again. God do I hate being such a pessimist about things like this but $60 is a lot of money nowadays, at least for me.

I totally agree. Learned my lesson with Race Pro.:mad:

I'll be back for breakfast...

[Yossarian]

I totally agree. Learned my lesson with Race Pro.:mad:

I'll be back for breakfast...

I was caught out by Race Pro aswell, I so wanted it to be good.

[Whiskey Red]

I'm not typically one to post on development forums, but I feel I need to say something.

No cockpit view for over half of the planes is simply ridiculous and inexcusable. I agree that part of this is laziness, and part of it is simply testing to see how much they can get away with. If excellence is expected, excellence will be delivered; but there has to be consequences for not. I don't disagree that some people have worked very hard on this, but the bottom line is simple; it doesn't matter how difficult it is to make or render, or create, if accurate cockpit modeling was top priority, then it would be delivered.

I am a commercial pilot and a CFI and have been flying since high school. I have also been playing flight sims for just as long. True flight enthusiasts would not buy a game labeled as a "sim" unless the game had full cockpits. And until now, that's what the publishers have given us. However, there seems to be this culture associated with consoles that gives the developers the right to gloss over features. Part of this might stem from the audience. I don't know.

You have to understand what true commitment to quality is, though. You have to understand what it means to have a work ethic. Simply doing the job is not enough. This is their career, this is a game they expect to make quite a chunk of change from, and they owe it us to not comprise in key areas. We let them do it, though. We let them do it by making excuses for them and not holding them accountable.

I've read all of the posts and I am so glad to see all of you speaking out for this silliness. Except for a small few, I am amazed at the solidarity of the fans. The aviation world is a close community, one that typically has a singular vision; whether its pilots, or flight enthusiast, we are a select bread of people with specific, sometimes misunderstood, interests and expectations. Cockpit views may not seem like a big deal to some, and no doubt reviewers who have never stepped foot in a plane smaller than a Boeing 717 will probably be among them. I, however, have limited R and R time and I cannot afford to buy a game that does not let me make the most of this time. As a pilot in real life, I can't stand playing third person flight or racing games. Even nose cams or bumper cams don't cut it. Most of my friends don't understand, and that's fine (they aren't pilots or enthusiasts), but here we have a game made for those like myself and I am appalled, though not entirely surprised, to see what's happened.

Please, you all are professionals. This is what you do for a living. Take the extra time. The game is releasing for $49.99, which is ten dollars cheaper than most 360 and PS3 games. Charge that extra ten and I doubt anyone would care so long as the product was finished.

Kids who are reading this, please understand how important it is to have a good work ethic. I made it this far in life though hard work, dedication, a willingness to push past obstacles, and the attitude of "the bare minimum is not good enough." I expect this same ethic from my flight students. I expect it from a company that wants fifty dollars in return for a product. If this were any other product besides software, it wouldn't have made it off the assembly line.

Anton, I'm sure you are a hard worker, but I'm speaking generally, and mainly to the philosophy of the company as a whole. I do hope that these rumors are not true, and if they are that we will be treated to a patch, not DLC of which we will inevitably be charged money.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and keep up your voices everyone.

[P-51]

Im sory you know all of it behind this? Do you? There may have been multiple reasons that the cockpits arnt included! For one you dont know how many cockpits arnt included - it could only be bombers not included, they could have included the gunner positions in this making it seem worse. You don't know. I want to be a pilot just like you! Im guessing you fly commertial? If anything. But I will make do with what i have and will get. If you don't like it so much dont buy it, wait untill they have eather added the cockpits of atleast confirming its not as bad as first concieved.

[Raw Kryptonite]

I totally agree. Learned my lesson with Race Pro.:mad:

I'll be back for breakfast...

Huh? Race Pro is incredible. The only thing wrong with that game is having *me* behind the wheel. I get tired of games that are all eye candy and no substance. IL2 looks like it'll cover both bases very well IMO.

Sorry guys, there's nothing that's going to keep me from buying this game, much less some translated website's comments. Half the time they can't get the number of MP players right or even a launch date that's already been announced. I put very little stock in those places, their facts are too often rushed and not verified.

[maxqubit]

I read french. My take on the PREview

Campaign = Allied only
MP = ALL planes but, NO cockpit view on german planes

The guy played MP on Arcade only (could not do in realistic/sim) ... He played also the Bf-109 E3 in MP so i guess he tried to get cockpit and found it was not there (last part is speculating on what he tried/tested)

So, my interpretation is indeed NO cockpit view for german planes

Mind you it says PREview ... so i don't know what build he was playing!? (could the NO cockpit view be info he got from 505 ... or just his impression from a preview build???)

There is still hope but not much imo (like <2%)

[cydno]

Sorry guys, there's nothing that's going to keep me from buying this game, much less some translated website's comments. Half the time they can't get the number of MP players right or even a launch date that's already been announced. I put very little stock in those places, their facts are too often rushed and not verified.

There is nothing that will refrain me from buying it either... that's too big a chance for consoles to let it go away.

BUT, I was just asking a question and until now nobody seem to be able to answer it.
Concerning the "website comment translation", it is perfectly right. It does say that there won't be any cockpit view for german aircraft... I know it because I am french so I speak french ;).
Also, as I said, this website is supposed to be reliable because that's the biggest video game dealer website here in France and it is supposed to be well informed.

And finally, I REALLY REALLY HOPE THAT ALL THIS IS JUST A MISTAKE AND THAT WE ALL BE ABLE TO FLY A GERMAN AIRCRAFT USING THE COCKPIT VIEW.

Regards,

[David603]

And finally, I REALLY REALLY HOPE THAT ALL THIS IS JUST A MISTAKE AND THAT WE ALL BE ABLE TO FLY A GERMAN AIRCRAFT USING THE COCKPIT VIEW.
I hope so too, but if it is true then I will not buy the game until this is corrected.

[reverend66]

Looks like the old game rushed to market unfinished by the publisher routine to me. Hopefully they will release updates if not I might wait for storm of war, damn shame.

[trk29]

The guy played MP on Arcade only (could not do in realistic/sim) ...
So, my interpretation is indeed NO cockpit view for german planes



So if he chose simulation then he might have gotten a cockpit?

[Raw Kryptonite]

Not doubting anyone's ability to read French, I'm doubting the author. We also had a preview from a major outlet here (Team Xbox no less) that made it sound like there were only 8 people in MP, which wasn't true.

"in the eight-player-max multiplayer portion"

Poor wording at BEST, but it still caused an uproar. Sounds pretty definitive, but as well all know, it's not true.

I'm not saying if the no-cockpit thing is true or not true, or if someone can read French or not. I took 3 years of it myself and don't remember a damned thing, so you're better off than I am. I put no stock in even 2-3 of these places reporting the same thing---they've all reported the same misinformation before. Regardless, I'm buying the game.

[maxqubit]

So if he chose simulation then he might have gotten a cockpit?NO! ... he played on ARCADE, and my guess is that he tried the different views and found no cockpit view (only 3rd and virtual)

Anyway, only hope is that it is a preview build (but seriously, i don't think the cockpit views of german planes will be in the final)

:(

[trk29]

NO! ... he played on ARCADE, and my guess is that he tried the different views and found no cockpit view (only 3rd and virtual)

Anyway, only hope is that it is a preview build (but seriously, i don't think the cockpit views of german planes will be in the final)

:(

What I was saying is if he had chosen SIMULATION versus ARCADE maybe he would have had a cockpit seat.

[Raw Kryptonite]

IIRC, the demo games were all from November of last year. We never even saw a cockpit picture until a couple of months ago. The propellers were too dark and that was fixed since then too. Any number of things could be going on here.

[He-111]

After reading all of this replies I am sure Mr Anton is either, relieved because he knows this is not true or swetting like crazy because he knows that sales numbers for sim players are going down the drain...

[juz1]

OK I appreciate where he is coming from but Big Red Lights are now going off in my head.....

I get lights and music in my head, but only when I'm squeezing a freshly peeled kitten....

[maxqubit]

What I was saying is if he had chosen SIMULATION versus ARCADE maybe he would have had a cockpit seat.I don't think so because you can have cockpit view in ARCADE too (and i'm guessing he tried to switch to that and failed)

[cydno]

After reading all of this replies I am sure Mr Anton is either, relieved because he knows this is not true or swetting like crazy because he knows that sales numbers for sim players are going down the drain...

LOL you must be right.... it's one or the other.
But I am sure Anton is not swetting too much since sim players are, most probably, not their primary target.

And you are right also when saying that all this is pure speculation but what else can we do while waiting for the final release? ;)
At least, that shows all our interest in this game.

[Tomo]

Surely they modelled a few axis cockpits to facilitate sim mode mulitplayer?

Otherwise this game is going to sink FAST.

There's no excuse for the 360 version - it has been finished for a LONG time. They could have easily spent time working on axix cockpits.

[Revvin]

I'll be cancelling my pre-order unless it can be confirmed all planes in multiplayer have cockpits with exception to bombers. If you're flying with the most realistic settings then fighting someone whose view is not hindered in any way by a cockpit gives them a clear advantage though I can't believe a developer would be so short sighted as to leave out cockpits on some planes and hopefully the article referred to has made a mistake.

[ryan2107]

Why do some people think research has to be done to model these cockpits that should already be in the game?

The research was done for the original IL2. Even if BOP can't get the actual resources to use in game they have a PERFECTLY modeled cockpit that all they have to do is COPY.

Give one half decent 3D modeler one week and he can COPY what someone else has already done all the work for.

[guiltyspark]

What about this post?

what about that post? the bf 109 , fw190 , and stuka have to be modeled

i dont give a shit what time contstraints you have

[ryan2107]

God if the Stuka doesn't have a cockpit say goodbye to dive bombing. We need those marks on the canopy.

[Whiskey Red]

P-51, I don't know everything. There's no need to be defensive. If you want arcade games without cockpits, they already exist. I was only hoping this one would be different.

I hope you do become a pilot. It was one of the best and most rewarding decisions I have ever made.

Finally, and I mean no offense, this is the attitude that I am talking about.

But I will make do with what i have and will get.

If we want excellence then we must expect excellence. It doesn't matter what the company is or who runs it. You are, of course, entitled to this opinion and I am not trying to fight you. Just know, however, that simply by keeping this type of outlook, we allow mediocrity by these companies. Take no excuses.

Good luck and I will plan to purchase this game after I have researched further.

[Apeboy]

Looks like the old game rushed to market unfinished by the publisher routine to me. Hopefully they will release updates if not I might wait for storm of war, damn shame.

If in fact cockpits are missing for the Luftwaffe I can't help but to agree with you. The difference is I hold both developer and publisher responsible if BoP winds up being a steaming pile. Both parties entered an agreement, both parties are responsible. I stopped buying the poor pitiful developer, evil slave driving publisher routine a long time ago.

In addition it makes you wonder what else failed to make the gold master. Flight Models, damage models and load outs verified and attached to correct aircraft? Uber AI maneuvers? The list could go on and on and on.

I enjoyed the original IL-2 Series but since then 1c sends the message they have been resting on their laurels ever since.

[MakoCSH]

I don't understand why Anton is being so silent about this.

I'm a bit disappointed also. I may just pick up IL-2 1946 instead.

[David603]

I saw Anton on here earlier, and when I looked at his profile he was looking at this thread. So no answer probably means there is nothing good he could say about the situation, and for him, confirming all the Axis planes lack cockpits would just make things worse. Hopefully this thread will convince him to put cockpits high on the list of patch priorities.

[Wehrwulf]

All i gotta say is: aaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhh. I hope it's not true, but if it is, it's not TOO major a fault, but German cockpits would definitely be cool. Since you spoke about IL2:1946, are the lobbies still active for that? And are there expansions for the game or is '46 an expansion itself? I didn't ask on the '46 forum because that would look really dumb, but I have a few questions about that anyways. Maybe someone could watch videos and help us out a bit with the cockpit issue...:confused:

[Flanker15]

Still many lobbies for '46 and there will be for a good while to come (but it does use hyper lobby so if you do play multi prepare for some headaches first).
'46 is sold as il-2 and every main expansion that came out including '46 all on one disk, so it's all you need. There is going to be atleast 1 more patch for it (v4.09) that will add new planes/cockpits and other features.

[Wehrwulf]

Thanks Flanker, perhaps I'll wait till the patch comes out and then look for the series bundle on Ebay. Good to hear that the lobbies are still active, but I'm sure most of the guys on there are experienced and have learned all there is to know, while I have not played any IL2's up until BoP. BTW, what is a "hyperlobby?" *blushes*

[David603]

Thanks Flanker, perhaps I'll wait till the patch comes out and then look for the series bundle on Ebay. Good to hear that the lobbies are still active, but I'm sure most of the guys on there are experienced and have learned all there is to know, while I have not played any IL2's up until BoP. BTW, what is a "hyperlobby?" *blushes*
Hyperlobby is a server system of sorts, it requires an account to use but is quite good once you have it up and running. BTW, I wouldn't wait for the 4.09 patch, because its release is still at some unknown but hopefully not to distant point in the future, and the current version of 1946 is still well worth playing.

[Flyboy69]

I tell you guys, this just shows how much they have rushed this game.
I think theres enough acade flight games out already. This game is ment to
be a flight sim, so there should be cockpit view for all planes.

[guiltyspark]

Can you just give us an answer?

Its really important

[SlappyDingle]

I think we need to just deal with the grim reality. I mean, they had to repurpose the P47 cockpit for the P51 so I don't have ANY hope at all for the Axis side....

[monyetension]

All i gotta say is: aaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhhh. I hope it's not true, but if it is, it's not TOO major a fault, but German cockpits would definitely be cool. Since you spoke about IL2:1946, are the lobbies still active for that? And are there expansions for the game or is '46 an expansion itself? I didn't ask on the '46 forum because that would look really dumb, but I have a few questions about that anyways. Maybe someone could watch videos and help us out a bit with the cockpit issue...:confused:
no worries bro trust me anton is not that stupid for just to apply part plane got cockpit view & sum were not...:rolleyes:

[Wehrwulf]

Roger thanks.

[monyetension]

I saw Anton on here earlier, and when I looked at his profile he was looking at this thread. So no answer probably means there is nothing good he could say about the situation, and for him, confirming all the Axis planes lack cockpits would just make things worse. Hopefully this thread will convince him to put cockpits high on the list of patch priorities.
or maybe he juz too lazy to respond for sumtin nonsence like diz assumption...;)

[monyetension]

Roger thanks.
i'm more looking up thingy in positive way...

atleast now i'd one so longing game awaits me...

thank you anton whoever you are :grin:

[Flyboy69]

This game has nothing to do with flight sim, its just awsome graphics and
for those looking for another arcade flight game. If this was a flight sim, there would be cockpit view for these planes. And also have accurate
cockpits instead of a P-47 for a P-51. Now there is a problem with
german cockpits. This game may look awsome, but its turning way into
another arcade flight game.

[trk29]

or maybe he juz too lazy to respond for sumtin nonsence like diz assumption...;)

I don't think he is lazy, he probably cannot comment on it.

[LJ371]

This game has nothing to do with flight sim, its just awsome graphics and
for those looking for another arcade flight game. If this was a flight sim, there would be cockpit view for these planes. And also have accurate
cockpits instead of a P-47 for a P-51. Now there is a problem with
german cockpits. This game may look awsome, but its turning way into
another arcade flight game.

i understand that this may not be a flight sim to the standards of recent PC games over the year, but can people really slap the devs and fans in the face enough to say its just graphics and arcade style.? are you positive that with a flightstick and on sim difficulty you wouldnt be able to call this a real flight sim? yes, it may be missing things, but what games perfect; especially one trying to bring a genre to the consoles. This games gonna be good, its gonna be fun - i think were sending out the wrong messages.

[Tomo]

If true, this would have to go down as one of the stupidest game development/publishing decsions of all time right?

I'm leaning towards it being untrue simply because it's too stupid to actually believe.

[GabeFan]

VERY disappointing if true! :(
But...I'll still be buying this game on release day either way...

[monyetension]

I don't think he is lazy, he probably cannot comment on it.
okey if it was really2 true then...may i know the source of these assumption & please don't get me wrong at least something logic...yeah i know they can do anything with it...but do take note 1st of all it was a simulation + arcade + multiplayer...they MUST had implement a fair gameplay & it will be definitely fair in every basic aspect...it will be the same, how can some of the plane got this & some doesn't...

take it like this for example, ferrari got driver hud & lamborghini doesn't had, but they race on the same track...it was a silly things to do & let say if they didn't had a licences to implement the hud option, then don't bother to put the option on the first place.

dear trk29 no offence juz take a deep breath & u'll get use to it.;-)

[manintrees]

This games gonna be good, its gonna be fun.

You're darn right it is!

[manintrees]

I think theres enough acade flight games out already. .

Name one that is half as good as BOP will be.

I don't know why you refer to BOP only as "arcade". It will be a flight sim for consoles.

I agree that no cockpit views of german planes would be a weird mistake. That is why we will soon find out that it's just a rumor.

[Tomo]

Name one that is half as good as BOP will be.

I don't know why you refer to BOP only as "arcade". It will be a flight sim for consoles.

I agree that no cockpit views of german planes would be a weird mistake. That is why we will soon find out that it's just a rumor.

Agreed. It must be a rumour (Aussie spelling).

They would not compromise 50% of multiplayer so stupidly.

[Porcho]

If this is true, I can only imagine the panic Anton and some of the devs must be feeling, seeing as how everyone is getting really worried and frustrated, and is threatening not to get the game because of this.

I however, will be getting the game since I recently ordered a joystick, and am getting it two days late, which should be today, but also because the game is going to be enjoyable regardless.

I mean, yes, this is a very, very big mistake if it is true.. but its not going to destroy the game as you guys say. If this is the case, they obviously worked out ways in which to make online equal, and fair.

And as you guys were mentioning, there is always room for patches.. but the only thing I don't understand.. why couldn't they just take the cockpits from IL-2: 1946, and somehow implement them into BoP.. it seems like a simple thing to do, just take the main template, and then tighten up the graphics a bit.

Anyway, all in all I hope to god this isn't true, and if it is, I however, will still be purchasing this game, and will enjoy the hell out of it!

[Riceball]

The way I see it, PC gamers are the ones who are most upset about the game missing this or MAYBE missing that. Because they've had great games in the genre for a long time now.

Console gamers, like myself, will be much more forgiving simply because a game like this has never been made. Does that mean I would be happy that the game is missing one or two important things? No. But some substituted cockpits and some missing cockpits (supposedly) won't turn me away one bit.

BTW, if it is true there are missing pits I would bet my bottom dollar there will be an update that includes them on day one or shortly thereafter.

[monyetension]

dear xnikex please merge this thread with these one: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8772
since it discussing the same topic.

TQ

[Mr Greezy]

I don't really get this whole "arcading it down" for the masses when it comes to console. Look at Forza 3. Or the juggernaut Grand Turismo series. FPS games rarely have "simulators" but even now the Operation Flashpoint series is coming to console. I get that you have to have a mode that lets people who aren't hard core enjoy the game. Totally understandable. But know what? When I bought Forza 2 I wanted to get into it more. I wanted to turn off the assists. In order to compete online with that I needed a wheel. But that's that next level of the game that I really enjoy. I COULD still be happy playing the simplified version of the game, but I don't, because that's not me.

I guess it's like, for a company who has a history of making authentic, in-depth games, why penalize the fanbase you've built by ignoring a clearly important aspect of the "simulation"? It's the same business with all the controller discussion. It's a WWII flight combat game. You want to play in the simulation mode, you should think about dropping the $40 and get an Aviator at least (if that breaks your bank, my condolences).

After hearing Anton's views on the whole "why can't we play as the Germans in the campaign" debate, it's clear to me that he feels like Axis airplanes are very much in second place. While I disagreed with EVERY reason he gave, and even much of his views on the subject of war, his decision to focus on Allied aircraft in and out of the campaign, I'm sure, is more of a time and resources decision. Not every company has the infinite budget that iD or Valve or in-house EA franchises do (or name your big-budget game).

This whole "strive for excellence" thing sounds a little self-important, and a little naive about the gaming industry.

But, I'm with you, it still really bugs me...this lack of attention to some really impressive fighter planes that served in WWII (regardless of nation). And now that Axis planes have no cockpit in multiplayer, as I said before, that now affects the gameplay. It's much easier to see everything in the HUD display, so those true Allied simmers are going to be at a disadvantage. And dammit, the Me 109 in all it's variants (specifically the G2) is my favorite plane ever. It's just a cool friggin' airplane. And it's not like it's obscure. It's really sad that I can't line shots up through the reticule, and instead am forced do it on some display that looks like it's out of a modern jet fighter. Luh-ame.

Anton, if you're reading this, I'm not saying all this because I hate the game. I actually dug the demo so much, as I said, I bought an Ace Edge. I think we're all a little distraught because we feel like it's not what we were hoping it to be. A pretty obvious detail is sadly missing (according to some French dudes).

So, in conclusion, WAAAAAAA.

[monyetension]

I don't really get this whole "arcading it down" for the masses when it comes to console. Look at Forza 3. Or the juggernaut Grand Turismo series. FPS games rarely have "simulators" but even now the Operation Flashpoint series is coming to console. I get that you have to have a mode that lets people who aren't hard core enjoy the game. Totally understandable. But know what? When I bought Forza 2 I wanted to get into it more. I wanted to turn off the assists. In order to compete online with that I needed a wheel. But that's that next level of the game that I really enjoy. I COULD still be happy playing the simplified version of the game, but I don't, because that's not me.

I guess it's like, for a company who has a history of making authentic, in-depth games, why penalize the fanbase you've built by ignoring a clearly important aspect of the "simulation"? It's the same business with all the controller discussion. It's a WWII flight combat game. You want to play in the simulation mode, you should think about dropping the $40 and get an Aviator at least (if that breaks your bank, my condolences).

After hearing Anton's views on the whole "why can't we play as the Germans in the campaign" debate, it's clear to me that he feels like Axis airplanes are very much in second place. While I disagreed with EVERY reason he gave, and even much of his views on the subject of war, his decision to focus on Allied aircraft in and out of the campaign, I'm sure, is more of a time and resources decision. Not every company has the infinite budget that iD or Valve or in-house EA franchises do (or name your big-budget game).

This whole "strive for excellence" thing sounds a little self-important, and a little naive about the gaming industry.

But, I'm with you, it still really bugs me...this lack of attention to some really impressive fighter planes that served in WWII (regardless of nation). And now that Axis planes have no cockpit in multiplayer, as I said before, that now affects the gameplay. It's much easier to see everything in the HUD display, so those true Allied simmers are going to be at a disadvantage. And dammit, the Me 109 in all it's variants (specifically the G2) is my favorite plane ever. It's just a cool friggin' airplane. And it's not like it's obscure. It's really sad that I can't line shots up through the reticule, and instead am forced do it on some display that looks like it's out of a modern jet fighter. Luh-ame.

Anton, if you're reading this, I'm not saying all this because I hate the game. I actually dug the demo so much, as I said, I bought an Ace Edge. I think we're all a little distraught because we feel like it's not what we were hoping it to be. A pretty obvious detail is sadly missing (according to some French dudes).

So, in conclusion, WAAAAAAA.
dude...i salute your time typing your feel alike expression much...
just hold your horse there was no solid evidence yet to it...
so cheer up...put ur WAAAAAA aside for a moment...
no worries i'll be accompanying choir up wiv you if da outcome turn upside down LOL :-D

[ryan2107]

The way I see it, PC gamers are the ones who are most upset about the game missing this or MAYBE missing that. Because they've had great games in the genre for a long time now.

Console gamers, like myself, will be much more forgiving simply because a game like this has never been made. Does that mean I would be happy that the game is missing one or two important things? No. But some substituted cockpits and some missing cockpits (supposedly) won't turn me away one bit.

BTW, if it is true there are missing pits I would bet my bottom dollar there will be an update that includes them on day one or shortly thereafter.

When mediocrity is accepted only mediocre games will be produced.

[cydno]

What I really don't understand is the silence of Anton....

Anton, We know you've read this thread, so please say something.... even if it's to say that you are not allowed to write on the subject ;).

[Gilgenbach]

IF there is any truth about the rumor that german planes in MP have virtual cockpits only. I have been playing IL2 for ages, and I love the PC version to bits, but there is absolutly no chance for me personaly to enjoy a game where such an important feature is lacking.


I know there are two threads about this subject already, sorry for that, but I just wanted to make that clear. And I know a lot of people over here who think the same, no wonder they kept that a secret so far.

Very dissappointed, :(

Rob

[Nike-it]

Do not create several threads about the same subject!
And do not persuade Anton to answer asap. I think hi will do when very soon.

[juz1]

no cockpit for bombers I seem to remember...

so IF there is no cockpits in multi player so be it...better luck next time....

perhaps when they said mp sim locked-in cockpit that includes virtual...

I still think 16 way mp online dogfights even with virtual cockpits will be Awesome...

100 posts already...sheeeshh...i wonder if ANY of these cockpit concerns will be mentioned in tonights webcast?

[Gilgenbach]

no cockpit for bombers I seem to remember...

so IF there is no cockpits in multi player so be it...better luck next time....

perhaps when they said mp sim locked-in cockpit that includes virtual...

I still think 16 way mp online dogfights even with virtual cockpits will be Awesome...

100 posts already...sheeeshh...i wonder if ANY of these cockpit concerns will be mentioned in tonights webcast?

I think a big part of the success of IL2 in general is and was its atmosphere. How can you achieve that with a cockpit view that looks like I am glued to the window of an F16. Thats not IL2 as I know it. I have been collecting german aircraft parts and instruments for nearly 20 years. I love each and every one of these legendary planes. "Flying" them without cockpit view puts IL2 on par with all the wannabe arcade flight sims out there. Its just not the same. ARGH, even the thought makes me sick. I need to think about something else. I better get back to work.

Horrido!

Rob

[monyetension]

Do not create several threads about the same subject!
And do not persuade Anton to answer asap. I think hi will do when very soon.
ahahaha...i guess u need a bigger bat to poking up diz guyz popping up a duplicate thread without doing sums research, happen all da times in Lowyat.NET hahaha...

cheers m8 "the best is yet to come..." ;-)

[elneilios]

Hmm this is disturbing. I only ever played IL2 1946 in Cockpit mode because it was the most emersive and fun. I have no trouble accepting the limitations of the console version that has been discussed so far but for me playing a realistic flight game without a cockpit is a total turnoff.

I was going to preorder but have held off because I suspected some disappointments would come up! Not to say I won't buy it period but I for one will be awaiting reviews before picking it up. Even if this turns out to be true, I'll probably buy it later on when its available pre-owned and cheap or something, then the issues won't bother me at all.

[Swagger7]

Well, that's it. If there isn't a definitive answer from Anton (by Saturday Aug 29) that either A: all/most fighters at least have some sort of cockpit or B: the situation will be corrected in a release patch, I will be heading down to GameStop and transferring my $5 preorder money to Call of Duty. There's no way I will be spending my very limited money (college is too expensive) on Il-2 without knowing for certain that I'll be getting a quality product. I'll also be encouraging the three friends of mine who preordered so that we could play as a flight do the same. Even if this all turns out to have been a mistake, it was still a MASSIVE fail in the PR department.

[H Lecter]

calm down everyone, here is an excerpt from the live demo on UStream:

2:24 danneale: ok here goes
2:25 danneale: Mark from 505 Games here
2:25 danneale: fire questions(not all at once!)
2:25 MARTIANS: yeh, go ahead, ask me
2:25 MARTIANS: ;-)
2:25 H_Lecter: is there a cockpit view for the german planes or not?
2:25 spunkyrakune: What game modes will be availaboe in MP?
2:26 elneilios84: will there be a flightstick bundle?
2:26 MARTIANS: do you have freeflight on all the maps?
2:26 danneale: Yes there is a cockpit view for German planes
2:26 H_Lecter: real or virtual cockpit..?
2:27 danneale: IN MP - Dogfight, team dogfight, strike, capture the airfield, up to 16 players
2:27 danneale: flightsticks are avilable, and supported... it will depend on individual retailers
2:27 Spotter5: Can we pilot the ME262 in multiplayer/singleplayer?
2:27 danneale: real cockpits
2:27 RawKryptonite: In ground strike, will each team be set to use a certain number of full sized bombers? assign player(s) to it? are there "slots" for bombers to fill so teams have equal number of them?
2:28 danneale: (almost every plane historically correct)
2:28 danneale: a couple without cockpit views
2:28 H_Lecter: *hugs mark and everyone else*
2:28 H_Lecter: it must be xmas, thanks guys!
2:28 elneilios84: that is very good news about real cockpits

[the_somme]

very good news on the cockpits. nice little demo too!

[cydno]

Hi guys!

I posted to start this rumor so I am posting to end end it!! I hope.

So it has been confirmed that german planes will have real cockpit views.

Check here the questions asks during the live demo on ustream and the answers of danneale (working with Mark Allen at 505games):

H_Lecter: is there a cockpit view for the german planes or not?
2:20 spunkyrakune: What game modes will be availaboe in MP?
2:20 elneilios84: will there be a flightstick bundle?
2:21 MARTIANS: do you have freeflight on all the maps?
2:21 danneale: Yes there is a cockpit view for German planes
2:21 H_Lecter: real or virtual cockpit..?
2:21 danneale: IN MP - Dogfight, team dogfight, strike, capture the airfield, up to 16 players
2:22 danneale: flightsticks are avilable, and supported... it will depend on individual retailers
2:22 Spotter5: Can we pilot the ME262 in multiplayer/singleplayer?
2:22 danneale: real cockpits
2:22 RawKryptonite: In ground strike, will each team be set to use a certain number of full sized bombers? assign player(s) to it? are there "slots" for bombers to fill so teams have equal number of them?
2:22 danneale: (almost every plane historically correct)
2:23 danneale: a couple without cockpit views
2:23 H_Lecter: *hugs mark and everyone else*
2:23 H_Lecter: it must be xmas, thanks guys!
2:23 elneilios84: that is very good news about real cockpits
2:23 Spotter5: is the DLC free or paid for?
2:24 danneale: RawKryptonite -yes you can assign players to it
2:24 elneilios84: is there a real first person view in gun turrets on bombers?
2:24 danneale: yes you can fly ME262 in MP
2:24 Spotter5: sweet!
2:24 RawKryptonite: re: Strike, so each team has to fill ___ (ex 2) bomber slots or something like that?
2:25 danneale: View for gun turrets is always 3rd person
2:26 RawKryptonite: MP Strike: do the base buildings respawn or are there a certain number to take out for a win? multiple areas?MP Strike: do the base buildings respawn or are there a certain number to take out?
2:26 danneale: RawKryptonite - No, in strike 1 player controls the plane (Flight, bombing, Turrets etc)
2:26 RawKryptonite: oops
2:27 RawKryptonite: no, I meant in game set up is there a required number of bombers. "each team must have ___ number of bombers flown"
2:27 danneale: DLC - plane and mission pack on 360 paid for, 800 points on 360.... on PS3 DLC combined into one pack also paid for... will be equivelent of 9.99 euros

Enjoy

[Gilgenbach]

calm down everyone, here is an excerpt from the live demo on UStream:

2:24 danneale: ok here goes
2:25 danneale: Mark from 505 Games here
2:25 danneale: fire questions(not all at once!)
2:25 MARTIANS: yeh, go ahead, ask me
2:25 MARTIANS: ;-)
2:25 H_Lecter: is there a cockpit view for the german planes or not?
2:25 spunkyrakune: What game modes will be availaboe in MP?
2:26 elneilios84: will there be a flightstick bundle?
2:26 MARTIANS: do you have freeflight on all the maps?
2:26 danneale: Yes there is a cockpit view for German planes
2:26 H_Lecter: real or virtual cockpit..?
2:27 danneale: IN MP - Dogfight, team dogfight, strike, capture the airfield, up to 16 players
2:27 danneale: flightsticks are avilable, and supported... it will depend on individual retailers
2:27 Spotter5: Can we pilot the ME262 in multiplayer/singleplayer?
2:27 danneale: real cockpits
2:27 RawKryptonite: In ground strike, will each team be set to use a certain number of full sized bombers? assign player(s) to it? are there "slots" for bombers to fill so teams have equal number of them?
2:28 danneale: (almost every plane historically correct)
2:28 danneale: a couple without cockpit views
2:28 H_Lecter: *hugs mark and everyone else*
2:28 H_Lecter: it must be xmas, thanks guys!
2:28 elneilios84: that is very good news about real cockpits

Still doubting ;)

[cydno]

I feel relief somehow :-P

[H Lecter]

I feel relief somehow :-P

Great relief here too. I take it as granted that there will be a playable BF109 with cockpit view. Everything else would really not make sense and I can't imagine any developer studio with such bad judgement.

This game is still everything I was dreaming of and I can't wait for it to be released :grin:

[Gilgenbach]

Great relief here too. I take it as granted that there will be a playable BF109 with cockpit view. Everything else would really not make sense and I can't imagine any developer studio with such bad judgement.

This game is still everything I was dreaming of and I can't wait for it to be released :grin:

Leaves the question open why we dont get any feedback from anton, who was reading this thread a couple of minutes ago. If the question is so easily answered, why not then?

[trk29]

Leaves the question open why we dont get any feedback from anton, who was reading this thread a couple of minutes ago. If the question is so easily answered, why not then?

Just be happy he answers some questions for us. You tell me another company where the CEO comes in and talks to the public. Everybody needs to chill out!

[Gilgenbach]

Just be happy he answers some questions for us. You tell me another company where the CEO comes in and talks to the public. Everybody needs to chill out!


I am happy about that! Very much so and grateful aswell. Still I would love to have an answer on that simple question. Do "our" planes have a "real" cockpit or not :grin:

[trk29]

The answer you are looking for is posted in this thread the answer is yes german planes will have real cockpits, but not every plane will have a cockpit.

[Ace Rimmer]

Well hopefully the cockpit issue can be put to rest now but it seems like there is more to it...

[Gilgenbach]

Well hopefully the cockpit issue can be put to rest now but it seems like there is more to it...

Thats exactly what I think - there is more to it.

[trk29]

Well we are at thirteen pages of a huge speculation thread I myself would love to reads comments that are true about the game instead of every post being someone threatening not to buy the game. Or there is a conspiracy theory as to why we are not getting all of them.

[SleepTrgt]

I think Anton is just very tired cleaning up all the rumours.
He wish he could tell us stuff but its not all allowed by the publishers aswell.

[Ace Rimmer]

Well we are at thirteen pages of a huge speculation thread I myself would love to reads comments that are true about the game instead of every post being someone threatening not to buy the game. Or there is a conspiracy theory as to why we are not getting all of them.

No offense but this whole cockpit issue is a perfect example why forums exist. There is a need for a community to discuss issues especially when they aren't being answered. The so called conformation given that German cockpits will be included seems very insincere given the concern expressed by the community.

I just took a quick look at the game's website and I couldn't find any mention of cockpit views at all. What does that mean? It could be nothing, or it could mean they are covering their a&*es.

[H Lecter]

He wish he could tell us stuff but its not all allowed by the publishers aswell.

From today's live broadcast I can only conclude that the publisher allowed to release information on the game.

[maxqubit]

I think Anton is just very tired cleaning up all the rumours.
He wish he could tell us stuff but its not all allowed by the publishers aswell.You can't tell german cockpits are in???? Bizar

[SleepTrgt]

No i was commenting on why Anton didnt say anything.

He said multiple times before not spreading the rumours.
So he might be tired fixing it all the time, and now he might be just thinking: they will find out themselfs.

All im saying is it feels like Anton and his crew are being attacked all the time, while i have never seen so much response from a team.

They are just trying to build a succesfull game, Who can be loved by many.

[trk29]

No offense but this whole cockpit issue is a perfect example why forums exist. There is a need for a community to discuss issues especially when they aren't being answered. The so called conformation given that German cockpits will be included seems very insincere given the concern expressed by the community.

I just took a quick look at the game's website and I couldn't find any mention of cockpit views at all. What does that mean? It could be nothing, or it could mean they are covering their a&*es.

I know why forums exist but when everyone is saying stuff like "the devs are being lazy" and "they are not buying the game" and "why doesn't anton comment on it"

This thread just didn't have a good vibe and there was so much criticism being thrown when it was all speculation, from another website that didn't have all of the facts, which in turn they were going off of speculation.

Everybody that says something negative about Anton and demands that he tell us something should feel ashamed because he doesn't have to give us any information. He must feel somehow connected to the forum either it be because he is the boss or he shares our enthusiasm for flight, whatever the case should be he doesn't deserve what some people on here throw at him. Childish!

The guy said there would be cockpits. Maybe they will post some pictures soon.

[Gilgenbach]

I really have to repeat this. I am very happy to be in a forum where I can explain my worries and ask my questions to the developers of a game. I also know (I have been reading these pages for years) that Anton always gives good and friendly advice even to the most stupid question. I thank him for his patience and endurance.

But I am worried. In my eyes it would have taken ONE sentence about 200 posts back to calm everything down.

"German planes will have "real" cockpits in MP"

Took 30 seconds, Problem solved. Everyone happy.

He read the posts, no answer. THAT is what worries me.

As the above poster said, I am a grown up person. I am married, served my time in the army, have a job and lots of interests.

BUT when it comes to WW2 flight sims I am a 13 year old boy. I have been looking forward to the BoP game for AGES. And I would realy be very dissappointed of the rumors prove to be right. Thats all I say.

Its only that one thing, that worries me.

[HauptmannMolders]

(climbs down from the roof smiling and drying his tears, feeling slightly embarrassed, wife rolls her eyes)

All is good.

[cydno]

I know why forums exist but when everyone is saying stuff like "the devs are being lazy" and "they are not buying the game" and "why doesn't anton comment on it"

This thread just didn't have a good vibe and there was so much criticism being thrown when it was all speculation, from another website that didn't have all of the facts, which in turn they were going off of speculation.



So trk29, there are two things:

-First my apologies to Anton since I didn't know he was the CEO... now I can understand why he doesn't answer to every thread.

-Second, my apologies too for this thread that brang bad vibes to this community... I posted it. In fact, I was just wondering if this could be true or if anybody had informations concerning such a bad news to my eyes.

But just as every other member in here you took part to this speculation ;) and this is normal... that shows off our interest in this game (that will be great!).

[H Lecter]

Edit to answer trk29 : to me an executive producer taking that much time to answer trolls on forums (I'm not saying everybody is a troll here) means the team doesn't know what it is doing. I've never heard about 1946 team asking advice from 13 year-olds (how old are you, guiltyspark ?)

It is a wise choice to ask the customer what he wants to see. The majority on this forum is >19 I would guess. I'm 34 and becoming 35 next week.

I have no idea about guiltyspark's age, but he is not the only visitor on this forum and generally it is very mature. As a comparison I recommend visiting the Battlefield 1943 forum. This is the place where you find trolls and all kind of people who were raised by monkeys...

[Gilgenbach]

It is a wise choice to ask the customer what he wants to see. The majority on this forum is >19 I would guess. I'm 34 and becoming 35 next week.

I have no idea about guiltyspark's age, but he is not the only visitor on this forum and generally it is very mature. As a comparison I recommend visiting the Battlefield 1943 forum. This is the place where you find trolls and all kind of people who were raised by monkeys...

Da werd ich aber nächste Woche gratulieren.

I am slightly emberassed now. It was never my intention to flame anyone. I will keep quiet for now and wait to see what Anton has to say.

Cheerio

Rob

[Molgera]

It is a wise choice to ask the customer what he wants to see.

I strongly disagree. Especially when it's about a simulation game.

So when your plane hits the ground, should it explode like in an action movie, or should it dislocate, or maybe bounce and go back in the sky ?

Is it really something that has to be submitted to the approval of customers ? We enter an era where people like to see "making-of" of their games just like it came for movies when DVD came up. And as customer sees what happens behind the curtains, developpers ask them "what do you want to see next?"

The "Pop Idol" culture comes to game industry because there is more and more game producers, and all of them just can't be concept geniuses such as Nintendo or Square Enix. So what do they do ? They look for ideas among people.

I'm born at the good time. When I was a teenager, goldeneye, zelda were the best ever seen. Now the poor quality of games will help me become a real adult and leave video games behind.

[maxqubit]

In the end you ALWAYS should do what YOU think is best (but you have to take for granted that nobody else will agree with you, hence that nobody will buy your game)

So, when e.g. you want to SELL your game you are already compromised. But if you just CREATE a game and give sh*t about selling, then you can go about how you see fit and if you wish take 5 years to model the bf109 cockpit in ridiculous detail:)

[H Lecter]

I strongly disagree. Especially when it's about a simulation game.

So when your plane hits the ground, should it explode like in an action movie, or should it dislocate, or maybe bounce and go back in the sky ?

Is it really something that has to be submitted to the approval of customers ?

I didn't mean 'Ask one customer and do whatever he says'. They ask the community for feedback and the hard part starts when they have to filter out what they can/want to realize and how to put it all together with the existing stuff.

Will my feedback be considered for a patch or a sequel? Hell, I don't know. But I'm glad I could at least say what I like or what I don't like.

[H Lecter]

I am slightly emberassed now. It was never my intention to flame anyone. I will keep quiet for now and wait to see what Anton has to say.

No reason for embarassement. This forum is here to voice your opinion - at least if it is like any other game forum :) .

[H Lecter]

Molgera, that's a very dark vision you are painting. I still hope that we will see more great games/movies/books/songs and other pieces of art in the future.

Times have become tough for game designers because most things have been tried already. Psygnosis just had to create a game that allowed two players to fight each other with a sword and chop off heads to amuse us with Barbarians. I was amazed by ACE on the C64 because I could pretend to be flying a fighter jet and shoot tanks and other planes. But the next games had to try harder to achieve a 'unique selling proposition' and not to be compared to some older game.

When it comes to sim games all you can do is actually simulate accurately - but it would not buy you butter on your bread because us simnuts are only few. So Anton and his team have to please the crowds by 'Hollywood style explosions' and other cheap tricks to win new customers. I think that Anton himself loves simulations and would like to make IL-2 BoP as realistic as technically possible, but the publishers think about the butter on the bread and push him to create an arcade experience for the masses. - And still we got a simulation mode with a pretty accurate flight model.

If BoP sells well, Anton might have a chance to include more realistic stuff for the sim mode, tone down the damage impact on landing to give us back belly landings, include more accurate cockpits and whatever else we asked for.

In the time of Barbarians or ACE you did not need a big studio to create an amazing game because the hardware limited the possibilities. Fast forward 20 years (OMG I'm old) and suddenly you can include realistic landscapes that are modelled to every detail possible from satelite images and WWII aerial photographs. That costs money - a lot of it. So selling 10,000 copies to sim nuts will not feed Anton's family and won't feed the publisher. Therefore they need to sell more.

What I heard so far about BoP and what I saw in the demo is enough for me to say that I will get my fun for my money. It's not perfect, but it may become better. ;)

[Danny M NL]

Molgera, I agree with you, it's all about money these days and not about being original. that's why I am currently in school studying Game design and Development, I want to put creation and imagination back into gaming...

[fritzwendel]

I'm still in shock that there are no german cockpits.

Fw-190, Bf-109, and Me-262 are all iconic planes of the era.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a future patch, but I am not currently happy about this info.

:evil:

[trk29]

There will be german cockpits.

Thread Locked

[the_somme]

i understand your frustration about certain parts regarding this game and i feel it too. but the cockpits for the german planes are in the game. it was confirmed by a 505 guy earlier today during the live demo.

so theres one less thing for you guys to feel frustrated about:)