Belly landings

[Sparlan007]

Personaly, i think the belly landings and crash landings are crap in BoP. I think these need to be fixed ASAP. I quote from Anton

"As for belly landings - plane explodes if it is damaged heavy enough not to take off.
So it is not ruining gameplay. Why do you need it? It is flight sim, not crash sim..."

It does not matter if it is a flight sim or a crash sim. The fact is during BoB they needed more pilots not aircraft. If everytime a plane crashlanded in real life it blew up, even if it was a perfect crash landing, we might run out of pilots. I quote from Anton again,

"Your wing was broken.
You wouldn't be able to takeoff. It is not over-reactive. It is exactly what I am telling.

This explosions achieves two goals:
- adds more Holywood style action (especially if you one, who hit target, not the one who landed).
- gives more visual for MP - more time you see enemy explosion, not just landed."

I dont think it matters if its a big explosion (and dont get me wrong, i LOVE explosions.....but this is just stupid.). How would you like it if you were the one being shot at, and you are badly beat up, and you somehow pull off a awesome crashlanding only to find out that you blow up for no reason at all. Sure the guy that shot you down would be happy. But if you did pull off that crash landing (with a good Damage modeling system) that would be really awesome. As for the guy that was attempting to shoot you down, too bad, he should have made sure you were going down.

I would like to hear what you guys have to think about Anton's replies to this topic. I am sorry if this is a over disscused topic but i think his response to this is total BS.

~~Sparlan007~~

[Sparlan007]

Now i realize this is a extreme example, but how would you feel if you were the guy that got shot down right now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikSUW...eature=related

[trk29]

Video doesn't work.

[Sparlan007]

Sorry for the video not working. heres the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikSUWS9U8jY&feature=related

Once again, i realize this is a extreme example, but how would you feel if you were the guy that got shot down?

[haitch40]

Sorry for the video not working. heres the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikSUWS9U8jY&feature=related

Once again, i realize this is a extreme example, but how would you feel if you were the guy that got shot down?

how the hell did he escape from that

[Sparlan007]

how the hell did he escape from that

It was lucky, i admit, and this prob wouldnt happen again if you tryed. It was a 1 in a million chance, but still, thats one more pilot that didnt get shot down.

Heres another video of the damage model with crashing in the Il-2 PC game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nDZmu4YQ

[jt_medina]

I think that BOP is an unfinished simulator and BOP compared to the original IL2 is half a sim.
I think they are not gonna fix this.

[blindAngle]

I think that BOP is an unfinished simulator and BOP compared to the original IL2 is half a sim.

I would argue that its still has a gazillion times more of a simulator than anything else available on consoles (on PS3 at least).
But fingers crossed for future improvements.

[loopdreams]

I think that BOP is an unfinished simulator and BOP compared to the original IL2 is half a sim.
In many ways it is half a sim, and half a game too. I think it's great. I'm assuming that most the people who are moaning have PCs upon which they play proper flight sims. Pretty much by definition their opinion of this game doesn't matter. It isn't really for them.

[butterfield]

In many ways it is half a sim, and half a game too. I think it's great. I'm assuming that most the people who are moaning have PCs upon which they play proper flight sims. Pretty much by definition their opinion of this game doesn't matter. It isn't really for them.

I think everyone with a PC and IL2 had there hops up for BOP on the console. I know I sure as hell did. It's hard to go from excellent to just so-so especially when you know it's basically the same game engine behind both versions.

[butterfield]

I think that BOP is an unfinished simulator and BOP compared to the original IL2 is half a sim.
I think they are not gonna fix this.

well said.

[Anton Yudintsev]

I think that BOP is an unfinished simulator and BOP compared to the original IL2 is half a sim.

There is no such thing as 'half sim'. That assumes, that there is only one Perfect Sim, and you can measure all other games by percent of this One Game.
And it is also pointless to make such a definition. Does it mean it is good? Or it is more fun? Or less fun? Or it means, that it can't be used as well as educational guide to WW2 combat planes, as PC IL-2 can?

In some aspects, our game simulates less accurate than Il-2 on PC.
In some aspects, our game simulates more accurate (and more things) than IL-2 (so not matching PC version in these aspects doesn't make gane less accurate).
In any case, it simulates more of the plane than any other game on consoles and most of the modern games on PC.

And, in Arcade mode it surely provides much more fun, than PC IL-2 with arcade settings. Original PC with Arcade settings becomes boring - almost no fun and almost no challenge.

It is another game. It is surely flight sim game. I hope it will be fun to play it for all players. I hope, there will be a lot of them.

[H Lecter]

In one aspect it became more realistic than 99 if not 100 % of the other games - the detail on the ground.

Detailed graphics lead to immersion and this is very important for a simulator in my opinion. The flight model also seems to be pretty much spot on so I'm grateful for what we get and can't wait for the release.

As I said elsewhere, if this game is successful we may see a sequel that is based on a lot of our feedback and will offer an even more realistic simulation experience including belly landings, damaged engines with oil or coolant leaks or crashes that the pilot survives.

Don't be upset about what this version does not have yet. Be patient and be constructive when providing feedback. Comments that start like 'You idiots cannot program a decent sim' or similar ones will probably not be read to the end where the useful information is hidden behind insults.

[Antinko1]

In one aspect it became more realistic than 99 if not 100 % of the other games - the detail on the ground.

Detailed graphics lead to immersion and this is very important for a simulator in my opinion. The flight model also seems to be pretty much spot on so I'm grateful for what we get and can't wait for the release.

As I said elsewhere, if this game is successful we may see a sequel that is based on a lot of our feedback and will offer an even more realistic simulation experience including belly landings, damaged engines with oil or coolant leaks or crashes that the pilot survives.

Don't be upset about what this version does not have yet. Be patient and be constructive when providing feedback. Comments that start like 'You idiots cannot program a decent sim' or similar ones will probably not be read to the end where the useful information is hidden behind insults.

I agree entirely. Anyway, some of us don't intend on being shot down at all. ;)

[IamKFAM]

And even if we're damaged... We ain't runnin for no open ground space... finish me off before I limp to your 6!!! lol.

[H Lecter]

I agree entirely. Anyway, some of us don't intend on being shot down at all. ;)

So do I. But my experience shows that intentions and wishful thinking are sometimes the same thing :-P

(Just kidding, I'm maybe slightly above average but far from an ace in computer games, but I have fun anyways ;))

[jt_medina]

In some aspects, our game simulates less accurate than Il-2 on PC.


Agree.

In some aspects, our game simulates more accurate (and more things) than IL-2 (so not matching PC version in these aspects doesn't make gane less accurate).


Tell me what things maybe I am missing something.


In any case, it simulates more of the plane than any other game on consoles and most of the modern games on PC.


Yes, compared to the consoles standard BOP is the king of simulation on consoles. This is the good news. But you can´t compare it with FSX, BlackShark or the original IL2.


It is another game. It is surely flight sim game. I hope it will be fun to play it for all players. I hope, there will be a lot of them.


Yes it is definitely another game. But despite all bugs or things suitable to be improved I´ll buy it. I hope that your next sim will be twice more realistic and better than BOP is.

Despite all missing features for sure BOP is making a turning point on consoles. I really hope that thanks to this maybe someone else decide to release more sims on consoles because to be honest simulation on PC is dying slowly.

[thundermuffin]

Agree.



Tell me what things maybe I am missing something.




Yes, compared to the consoles standard BOP is the king of simulation on consoles. This is the good news. But you can´t compare it with FSX, BlackShark or the original IL2.




Yes it is definitely another game. But despite all bugs or things suitable to be improved I´ll buy it. I hope that your next sim will be twice more realistic and better than BOP is.

Despite all missing features for sure BOP is making a turning point on consoles. I really hope that thanks to this maybe someone else decide to release more sims on consoles because to be honest simulation on PC is dying slowly.


Yeah... about that. Tell me, how much of this game have you played? OH! thats right, TWO FREAKING MISSIONS! Explain to me how you can understand all the subtle workings of a game you haven't really gotten the chance to explore. Don't jump to conclusions just because you want to hate this game.

[Siege777]

I really feel like a lot of these issues people are having with BoP's design decisions stem from the misconception that console gamers are somehow less sophisticated and will only buy games with frenetic actionpacked gameplay.

I get this from some of the replies anton has made so far, like the explosions after every crash, whether it's realistic or not, being there for hollywood effect and especially from his response about the reason for unlimited fuel and ammunition in the campaign mode. Basically because the arcade missions are so unrealistic and require you to destroy so many targets that you need the unlimited ammo. And then he said something like Gamers would get confused if there were two seperate campaigns, about which one they'd already completed, etc. That's just plain insulting, imo - Plenty of games keep track of which difficulty level you've beaten campaign missions on and allow you to play the campaign multiple times with different settings/difficulties.

Personally, one of the main reasons I didn't bother getting HAWX or Ace Combat is because you can fire off 100 missiles at enemy planes and they're basically just arcade shooters that happen to take place in the air.

I was never very good at IL-2 on PC, so getting shot down a lot, it's almost like a game in itself trying to crashland your smoking plane safely without your pilot dying. I hope it was just publisher pressure that led to these decisions and maybe we can see at least an option to turn them on in a future patch or at least a sequel.

(sorry for the long rant)

[jt_medina]

Yeah... about that. Tell me, how much of this game have you played? OH! thats right, TWO FREAKING MISSIONS! Explain to me how you can understand all the subtle workings of a game you haven't really gotten the chance to explore. Don't jump to conclusions just because you want to hate this game.

No comments.
I think you need to read twice my post.

Anyway from the rest of posters you´ll see that I am not the only one who thinks that.

[Roboslob]

Happy Landings Video
I was hoping that at 4:17 he was going to crash into the parked bombers. Oh well, that video filled my explosion/crash quota for the day. :)

[butterfield]

I hope it was just publisher pressure that led to these decisions and maybe we can see at least an option to turn them on in a future patch or at least a sequel.

(sorry for the long rant)

It is publisher pressure. The way Anton has talk about things that have been removed from the sim you can tell it all stems from the publisher. Anton can't sit here and badmouth them though. Anton even stated that the publisher was going as far as having testing questionaires and census tests involving the game. That's why theyhad to remove blackouts and redouts from the game...it was determined that the general masses of casual gaming sheep thought it was a GLITCH in the game. That's right a glitch...so the publisher forced the removal.

[SR91 Aurora]

it was determined that the general masses of casual gaming sheep thought it was a GLITCH in the game.

I wonder why the people who thought blackouts and redouts were glitches didn't think spontaneous explosions when your plane touches the ground were glitches.:confused:

Maybe schools should spend a little more time teaching physics.:grin:

[Riccster09]

I actually managed to not explode instantly once while landing. I came down too hard, it broke my wing off, and I skidded down the runway a bit and then exploded.

[Doktorwzzerd]

I really feel like a lot of these issues people are having with BoP's design decisions stem from the misconception that console gamers are somehow less sophisticated and will only buy games with frenetic actionpacked gameplay.

I get this from some of the replies anton has made so far, like the explosions after every crash, whether it's realistic or not, being there for hollywood effect and especially from his response about the reason for unlimited fuel and ammunition in the campaign mode. Basically because the arcade missions are so unrealistic and require you to destroy so many targets that you need the unlimited ammo. And then he said something like Gamers would get confused if there were two seperate campaigns, about which one they'd already completed, etc. That's just plain insulting, imo - Plenty of games keep track of which difficulty level you've beaten campaign missions on and allow you to play the campaign multiple times with different settings/difficulties.

Personally, one of the main reasons I didn't bother getting HAWX or Ace Combat is because you can fire off 100 missiles at enemy planes and they're basically just arcade shooters that happen to take place in the air.

I was never very good at IL-2 on PC, so getting shot down a lot, it's almost like a game in itself trying to crashland your smoking plane safely without your pilot dying. I hope it was just publisher pressure that led to these decisions and maybe we can see at least an option to turn them on in a future patch or at least a sequel.

(sorry for the long rant)

Agreed. I think that BoP is actually giving us a very good sim, esp for consoles, but your observations about publisher's misconceptions on the console market are totally correct. Most console players these days are btw 20-35 yrs old and are looking for more mature, nuanced and challenging games.

In fact if you look at the trends, you can see proof of this, who 3-4 years ago would have predicted Fallout 3, with all of its nerdy stat building, super long game length, ultra big inventories etc would be one of this years biggest games? And yet it is and not only that but the DLC sells like hotcakes.

I've also seen games really hurt by trying to play to misconceptions about console players, the most recent Brothers in Arms being a great example. The original for xbox and PC raised the bar for realistic, tactical squad FPS gameplay and also were very successful. In Hell's Highway GBX tacked on an inartful rip of GoW gameplay, as well as horrible solo run and gun missions, onto what had been a fantastic game in an effort to appease twitch gamers and it was flop city. The used bins at Gamestop are overflowing with heavily marked down copies.

On the positive side, while we haven't gotten every single detail we may have wanted I am extremely pleased that a game that is 95% real sim is coming to the market, frankly I never really believed it would happen, so I can deal with the lack of belly landings. For now;)