Damage model is rubbish!

[sod16]

Has any one else notist (clearly previewers have not) that the damage in birds of prey is really bad... Its not as detailed as the pc version... and no dont say the xbox is too crap and limited for detailed damage because it isnt.

I'll give you a few things that i notist (glitches aswell)

When on tail out side view, if you've been shot once or twice the teeth marks on the side of your wing near the cockpit come out as white unrendered conjobs.

If your plane gets shot, you always seem to get the same order of damage...

AI CANNOT shoot you down at all, it takes SOOOOOOOOOOOOO long even if you fly in simulator mode.

Damage and that gaping hole in your wing you get on the left does not effect performance at all (although once my engine cut out)

Your pilot never dies (maybe for ratings) unless you blow up

MOST IMPORTANTLY CAN SOME ONE ANSWER THIS ONE... WHY DOESNT YOUR WHEELS COME OFF IF YOU RETRACT THEM AT 300km/h or even 1000km/h... WHY doesnt your engine over heat???

comment your suggestions and thoughts.

[H Lecter]

AI CANNOT shoot you down at all, it takes SOOOOOOOOOOOOO long even if you fly in simulator mode..

They can, but they take some time to do it. Maybe it's because it is a demo..?

Your pilot never dies (maybe for ratings) unless you blow up

I'm sure he can die. Theyounggameguy posted a video somewhere on this forum in which the pilot definitely died.

I am always in for more realistic damage and hope that there will be improvements - at least in a sequel if there will be one.

[sod16]

You know, i doubt its because.. "its a demo" because i have not seen one demo thats changed at all since the demo was released, thought maybe you are right.. and there is a harder AI setting.

[TexRoadkill]

Only a complete sod would call it rubbish. The graphic representation of the damage is not dynamic but the actual damage modelling under the hood is pretty sophisticated. You can damage separate components of the plane and crew.

It's much more sophisticated then the hit point system of every other console flying game.

[juz1]

MOST IMPORTANTLY CAN SOME ONE ANSWER THIS ONE... WHY DOESNT YOUR WHEELS COME OFF IF YOU RETRACT THEM AT 300km/h or even 1000km/h...

thoughts.

because the undercarriage Pixie takes pity on you and lends a helpful jingley hand- Go Go Power Pixies!
________
Michigan medical marijuana (http://michigan.dispensaries.org/)

[sod16]

Only a complete sod would call it rubbish. The graphic representation of the damage is not dynamic but the actual damage modelling under the hood is pretty sophisticated. You can damage separate components of the plane and crew.

It's much more sophisticated then the hit point system of every other console flying game.

but if you ever played the pc version then you wouldn't be so easily satisfied

[sod16]

because the undercarriage Pixie takes pity on you and lends a helpful jingley hand- Go Go Power Pixies!

You are not funny.

[sod16]

instead of sulking, that im criticising your all so perfect game, why don't you lot notice it and take it as a defeat. The "under the hood damage" is really bad, it takes a lot to knock your plane out of the air, your plane hardly fights you.

[juz1]

instead of sulking, that im criticising your all so perfect game, why don't you lot notice it and take it as a defeat. The "under the hood damage" is really bad, it takes a lot to knock your plane out of the air, your plane hardly fights you.


no ones sulking, they just can't be bothered to answer a thread apparently posted by someone disconnected to the point of autism...grow up child!
________
Xm Falcon (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_XM_Falcon)

[irrelevant]

instead of sulking, that im criticising your all so perfect game, why don't you lot notice it and take it as a defeat. The "under the hood damage" is really bad, it takes a lot to knock your plane out of the air, your plane hardly fights you.

Ok, so it's not as detailed as the PC version. I think we get your point. Personally, I don't care about the supposed rubbish damage model because, this will likely be the best flight game introduced to consoles... and the damage model looks great to me. I don't think it is perfect... far from from it... but it is damn good, if not great. Until now, the closest sim on a console has been Over G Fighters for the 360 and, frankly speaking, BOP will blow that out of the skies.

I think it is too late to overhaul the damage model, but maybe you can share your suggestion (not complaint) in the thread Anton started for possible inclusion in a title update. If it is not in the title update (which hasn't been confirmed), perhaps it will be implemented in a sequel (also not confirmed).

Beyond that, we'll play with what has been given to us. I'm looking forward to what is already in place, but that is just my opinion. :cool:

[sod16]

no ones sulking, they just can't be bothered to answer a thread apparently posted by someone disconnected to the point of autism...grow up child!

Wow maybe if you stopped sucking up to a half arsed game, it might get sales and become the 10000th most played game on xbox, if any ones autistic its got to be you clearly you are too visually impared to know what a good game is or have helpful critisim.. instead of cracking silly jokes about disabilities why dont you get off the computer and leave your house. you got to be the most simple minded person on earth..

[Jimatay]

Wow maybe if you stopped sucking up to a half arsed game, it might get sales and become the 10000th most played game on xbox, if any ones autistic its got to be you clearly you are too visually impared to know what a good game is or have helpful critisim.. instead of cracking silly jokes about disabilities why dont you get off the computer and leave your house. you got to be the most simple minded person on earth..

No no, thats me...

[Jimatay]

..see i couldn't even get the quote thingy right. :confused:

[sod16]

Look im not fighting, im playing the game right now as we speak (demo).
ALL im saying is theres a few SIMPLE things missing such as the falling off of wheels, and the bug. Its a good game, and believe me everyone i know has said its the worst game theyve ever played. Il still get it to dog fight online it should be fun.

[Jimatay]

Look im not fighting, im playing the game right now as we speak (demo).
ALL im saying is theres a few SIMPLE things missing such as the falling off of wheels, and the bug. Its a good game, and believe me everyone i know has said its the worst game theyve ever played. Il still get it to dog fight online it should be fun.

What? Even worse than "Last Battle" on the megadrive? GET AWAY! I dont believe you.

[TexRoadkill]

but if you ever played the pc version then you wouldn't be so easily satisfied

Why would you expect a console game to be as detailed as a PC game?

[sod16]

Why would you expect a console game to be as detailed as a PC game?

Well damage, id say is not that hard to make... port if like everything else thats been ported like the flight models..

[sod16]

worst as in blazing angels "is better", which i personally cant stand.

[PulpzillA]

i can kinda see where sod is coming from. i started a thread about this a few days back. the thing im disappointed about is that we were 'promised' a damage system the same as il2 on pc and its lacking in that respect.

[sod16]

i can kinda see where sod is coming from. i started a thread about this a few days back. the thing im disappointed about is that we were 'promised' a damage system the same as il2 on pc and its lacking in that respect.

Thank you! exactly what i mean, now that i know they promised that i can go on for days... The wheels not falling off alone is failblog content.

[irrelevant]

sod, why don't you post this in the suggestion to devs thread? it could be as simple as "please incorporate enhanced damage model similar to pc version for possible title update." then give your example about the wheels falling off.

seriously, that's the place to make your case. anton said they are making note of the suggestions there. if it won't happen, he might go so far as to explain why the model was built the way it is.

just trying to suggest a constructive approach to this...

[sod16]

sod, why don't you post this in the suggestion to devs thread? it could be as simple as "please incorporate enhanced damage model similar to pc version for possible title update." then give your example about the wheels falling off.

seriously, that's the place to make your case. anton said they are making note of the suggestions there. if it won't happen, he might go so far as to explain why the model was built the way it is.

just trying to suggest a constructive approach to this...

theyl only ever bother if enough people argree, clearly this game is going to stay arcade like forever.

[Kartman013]

theyl only ever bother if enough people argree, clearly this game is going to stay arcade like forever.

The game in simulation mode is far from arcade like. Personally I couldn't care less what the damage model looks like as long as the feeling of flight is simulated and believe me this game succeeds in leaps and bounds. I presume you are flying from 3rd person - outside the cockpit? That would explain a lot.

If you're looking for explosions and eye-candy perhaps you should stick to Gears, Halo, Burnout Paradise, those types of games? ;)

[Riceball]

worst as in blazing angels "is better", which i personally cant stand.

Please. :rolleyes: You're kidding right?

theyl only ever bother if enough people argree, clearly this game is going to stay arcade like forever.

And clearly the PC die hards will never be satisfied with BoP. Just because wheels don't rip off at high speed ,which I doubt was common, and the damage model is not as good as PC versions makes it arcade like?

And you called somebody simple minded? That's rich.

[sod16]

The game in simulation mode is far from arcade like. Personally I couldn't care less what the damage model looks like as long as the feeling of flight is simulated and believe me this game succeeds in leaps and bounds. I presume you are flying from 3rd person - outside the cockpit? That would explain a lot.

If you're looking for explosions and eye-candy perhaps you should stick to Gears, Halo, Burnout Paradise, those types of games? ;)

I dont just play plane simulators, i play more simulators then you'd image, even crappy train ones, IM not so worried about visual damage, but since its a simulator it should have speed effect your plane, infact pulling something like 10g's in a tight turn in a crappy 1940's plane should rip your wings appart... but thats far too picky. Who said im looking for explosions, if you read what i said, i clearly stated damage and careless flying does nothing to the simulation model as it did in the previous game.

[sod16]

Please. :rolleyes: You're kidding right?



And clearly the PC die hards will never be satisfied with BoP. Just because wheels don't rip off at high speed ,which I doubt was common, and the damage model is not as good as PC versions makes it arcade like?

And you called somebody simple minded? That's rich.

Being simply minded here il give you a real meaning:
simple-minded
Adjective
2. (of opinions or explanations) not taking the complexity of an issue or subject into account

You clearly cant see what im saying / sugesting and just taking it as offence.

[MAYAman]

but if you ever played the pc version then you wouldn't be so easily satisfied

I played the PC version, and guess what? this isn't the PC, this is the Xbox 360 where hard core like us and casuals have to play together.

When we have full convergence and PC/Consoles become synonymous with each other then we will have nirvana. But until then this is a good first start.

Being overly critical because you're used to the open and sophisticated nature of PC is silly. I think this is an EXCELLENT first step towards more sim games like this on console. But if people keep bashing it and saying I WON'T BUY IT. guess what is going to happen? You won't get another.

you thinK PC gaming is going to be around for ever? LOL no, you need consoles buddy so just accept it for what it is and give some feedback to the developers in a respectful and clear manner so they can consider it for the next game. The more feedback they get the more they will listen. But not if you are an asshole. Not you in particular by the way, just people who are overly critical in an asshole type manner. :)

[Vrait]

You know, i doubt its because.. "its a demo" because i have not seen one demo thats changed at all since the demo was released, thought maybe you are right.. and there is a harder AI setting.

Actually I have, EA Skate, Full game had added clothing physics.

[sod16]

I played the PC version, and guess what? this isn't the PC, this is the Xbox 360 where hard core like us and casuals have to play together.

When we have full convergence and PC/Consoles become synonymous with each other then we will have nirvana. But until then this is a good first start.

Being overly critical because you're used to the open and sophisticated nature of PC is silly. I think this is an EXCELLENT first step towards more sim games like this on console. But if people keep bashing it and saying I WON'T BUY IT. guess what is going to happen? You won't get another.

you thinK PC gaming is going to be around for ever? LOL no, you need consoles buddy so just accept it for what it is and give some feedback to the developers in a respectful and clear manner so they can consider it for the next game. The more feedback they get the more they will listen. But not if you are an asshole. Not you in particular by the way, just people who are overly critical in an asshole type manner. :)


Il re quote you on the, "do you think pc gaming is going to be around for ever", You should delete your account for saying that. IF PC gaming stops, then consoles will STOP, Nvidia and ATI will have no reason to develope and research cards specificly made for gaming (thats what they do if you did not know). The ps3 chip was esstially two 6800 Ultras, with a few enhancements, i'll have you know 6800 Ultra's come from PC's and that nvidia and ATI make those for pc's, Consoles are BASED on PC's so no PC no CONSOLE, and believe me i know a lot more then you could imagine on pc's then you might know about a can of coke. So put it this way, you will be stuck playing il 2 birds of prey for the rest of your life if nvidia suddenly decided to say, "PC gaming has stopped".

[sod16]

Sorry but please dont post here again i cant take you seriously now MAYAman, do not try and tell me PC gaming and Graphic cards (if you even know what they are) are at a end, what the hell do you think they are using to make this game?

[irrelevant]

you will be stuck playing il 2 birds of prey for the rest of your life

Finally, my prayers have been answered! :eek:

[sod16]

Finally, my prayers have been answered! :eek:

Will you ever buy storm of war

[Riceball]

Sorry but please dont post here again i cant take you seriously now MAYAman, do not try and tell me PC gaming and Graphic cards (if you even know what they are) are at a end, what the hell do you think they are using to make this game?

I'm sure many would ask you not to post here again.

[thundermuffin]

Il re quote you on the, "do you think pc gaming is going to be around for ever", You should delete your account for saying that. IF PC gaming stops, then consoles will STOP, Nvidia and ATI will have no reason to develope and research cards specificly made for gaming (thats what they do if you did not know). The ps3 chip was esstially two 6800 Ultras, with a few enhancements, i'll have you know 6800 Ultra's come from PC's and that nvidia and ATI make those for pc's, Consoles are BASED on PC's so no PC no CONSOLE, and believe me i know a lot more then you could imagine on pc's then you might know about a can of coke. So put it this way, you will be stuck playing il 2 birds of prey for the rest of your life if nvidia suddenly decided to say, "PC gaming has stopped".

Right, because thats on topic...

Just out of curiosity here, did you read the IGN Preview of the game? In there, they state, "As Anatoly Subbotin, 1C's PR manager, explained to us, almost all the air combat games that appear on consoles are arcade games with a few flight simulation elements added to them. Birds of Prey will differ because it is a flight simulator with a few arcade elements added to it. At the same time, the game will feature variable realism settings, ranging from a very forgiving arcade flight mode (it's impossible to stall out or get in a spin) to a hardcore realism mode that is comparable to the PC game. "

You are forgetting that this isn't the PC game. They are INTENTIONALLY dumbing it down. Have you seen how the previous games looked on PC and how it now looks? How much money do you think went in to developing what we all know will be a great game? This game is developed to sell a lot as opposed to a PC game that can turn profit on reasonable sales. Regardless of just damage models, complaints about a lack of unfathomable depth is just silly. That won't sell. How much do you think Forza sold. Not as much as Burnout Paradise. The comparison there is a little unfair, but you see where I'm going.

The Kotaku write up is similarly disappointing to the hard core. " hadn't played the PC original. And I'm not a WWII flight-sim guy. But I was worried for those hardcore IL-Sturmovik fans when I was invited to try a multiplayer session of of the 1C-developed, 505 Games-published upcoming console edition of the series. The 505 rep doing the demo started out by saying the game I was about to play would be like Call of Duty in the air."

[Riceball]

Will you ever buy storm of war

News Flash!!!!

Not all of us have gaming PCs. This is a CONSOLE game.

[irrelevant]

Will you ever buy storm of war

I'd love to, but I'm not a PC gamer.

[Antinko1]

I'd love to, but I'm not a PC gamer.

Right. The fact of the matter is that the OP's point is somewhat redundant. The context in which we're playing is console gaming - nothing has ever come close to what is being promised with IL-2 Birds of Prey and I doubt it will until a sequel is made.

To expect full simulation, I think, is unrealistic at this point in time. Console gamers play with a different mind set to PC gamers. I'm not syaing that they're not 'as good' but the market certain desires greater accessibility, and this is what BoP offers.

When I played the demo I was extremely impressed. To tell the truth, I hadn't even known the game was being made until I saw the d/l available on XBOX Live and I experienced what only could be described as a 'nerdgasm'.

This game offers the (almost?) perfect balance between flight simulator and arcade game and the plane controls translate beautifully onto the 360 gamepad. I'll probably invest in an AV8ER flight stick at some point in time but I had no trouble using the game pad with the mandatory control layout. I think that in itself is a great achievement for an air combat game on a console.

The only game which I think has a superior control layout (and people will probably throw stones at me here) is Over G fighters - I really liked the rudder as the R and L triggers.

The graphics, physics and damage in IL-2 BoP will keep me entertained for hours and if the opportunity arises, I'll certainly be forming/joining an XBOX live squadron for this game.

It's beautiful.

[sod16]

I'm sure many would ask you not to post here again.

Please stop saying irrelevent stuff, are you running out of things to say? Do you even understand English, your pathetic attempts to make me cry are not working.

[irrelevant]

LOL @ "nerdgasm." It's been a daily occurrence for me (still waiting to play demo on PS3).

I agree with you about the Over G controls... I used to play that game endlessly.

BTW, nice first post. ;)

[sod16]

News Flash!!!!

Not all of us have gaming PCs. This is a CONSOLE game.

Once again, you do not know anything, you do not NEED a gaming pc, just simply a pc not from a crappy highstore, a bit of research will get you a £300 pc that can run pretty much any game on the market.

[sod16]

Right. The fact of the matter is that the OP's point is somewhat redundant. The context in which we're playing is console gaming - nothing has ever come close to what is being promised with IL-2 Birds of Prey and I doubt it will until a sequel is made.

To expect full simulation, I think, is unrealistic at this point in time. Console gamers play with a different mind set to PC gamers. I'm not syaing that they're not 'as good' but the market certain desires greater accessibility, and this is what BoP offers.

When I played the demo I was extremely impressed. To tell the truth, I hadn't even known the game was being made until I saw the d/l available on XBOX Live and I experienced what only could be described as a 'nerdgasm'.

This game offers the (almost?) perfect balance between flight simulator and arcade game and the plane controls translate beautifully onto the 360 gamepad. I'll probably invest in an AV8ER flight stick at some point in time but I had no trouble using the game pad with the mandatory control layout. I think that in itself is a great achievement for an air combat game on a console.

The only game which I think has a superior control layout (and people will probably throw stones at me here) is Over G fighters - I really liked the rudder as the R and L triggers.

The graphics, physics and damage in IL-2 BoP will keep me entertained for hours and if the opportunity arises, I'll certainly be forming/joining an XBOX live squadron for this game.

It's beautiful.

You know, I'd Love to Dogfight everyone in this post. (Just for laughs of course) :P

[sod16]

Right, because thats on topic...

Just out of curiosity here, did you read the IGN Preview of the game? In there, they state, "As Anatoly Subbotin, 1C's PR manager, explained to us, almost all the air combat games that appear on consoles are arcade games with a few flight simulation elements added to them. Birds of Prey will differ because it is a flight simulator with a few arcade elements added to it. At the same time, the game will feature variable realism settings, ranging from a very forgiving arcade flight mode (it's impossible to stall out or get in a spin) to a hardcore realism mode that is comparable to the PC game. "

You are forgetting that this isn't the PC game. They are INTENTIONALLY dumbing it down. Have you seen how the previous games looked on PC and how it now looks? How much money do you think went in to developing what we all know will be a great game? This game is developed to sell a lot as opposed to a PC game that can turn profit on reasonable sales. Regardless of just damage models, complaints about a lack of unfathomable depth is just silly. That won't sell. How much do you think Forza sold. Not as much as Burnout Paradise. The comparison there is a little unfair, but you see where I'm going.

The Kotaku write up is similarly disappointing to the hard core. " hadn't played the PC original. And I'm not a WWII flight-sim guy. But I was worried for those hardcore IL-Sturmovik fans when I was invited to try a multiplayer session of of the 1C-developed, 505 Games-published upcoming console edition of the series. The 505 rep doing the demo started out by saying the game I was about to play would be like Call of Duty in the air."

You quoted me on the wrong stuff, READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT PC GAMES AND CONSOLE GAMES, i didnt say it wont SELL or anything, and believe me i know more about economy then you, i know what'l sell more and wont, as i said im criticising SIMPLE things they could have added to make the game more convincing, and yet you go on.

LMAO again forza 2 out sold burnout baradise 4 to 1 so i dont know what you are talking about...... You cannot compared forza 1 to that, they are not of the same era.
Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

[BadKarmaSutra96]

LoL "nerdgasm". I had one of those when I built myself a PC last month just so I could play ARMA 2 on very high graphic settings.

But, for me, IL-2 is just an "eargasm" and "eyegasm".

[sod16]

LoL "nerdgasm". I had one of those when I built myself a PC last month just so I could play ARMA 2 on very high graphic settings.

But, for me, IL-2 is just an "eargasm" and "eyegasm".

Are you serious about that? I built one for crysis+ i needed one anyway, lol ARMA 2 is glitchy and buggy has hell

[butterfield]

Right. The fact of the matter is that the OP's point is somewhat redundant. The context in which we're playing is console gaming - nothing has ever come close to what is being promised with IL-2 Birds of Prey and I doubt it will until a sequel is made.

To expect full simulation, I think, is unrealistic at this point in time. Console gamers play with a different mind set to PC gamers. I'm not syaing that they're not 'as good' but the market certain desires greater accessibility, and this is what BoP offers.

When I played the demo I was extremely impressed. To tell the truth, I hadn't even known the game was being made until I saw the d/l available on XBOX Live and I experienced what only could be described as a 'nerdgasm'.

This game offers the (almost?) perfect balance between flight simulator and arcade game and the plane controls translate beautifully onto the 360 gamepad. I'll probably invest in an AV8ER flight stick at some point in time but I had no trouble using the game pad with the mandatory control layout. I think that in itself is a great achievement for an air combat game on a console.

The only game which I think has a superior control layout (and people will probably throw stones at me here) is Over G fighters - I really liked the rudder as the R and L triggers.

The graphics, physics and damage in IL-2 BoP will keep me entertained for hours and if the opportunity arises, I'll certainly be forming/joining an XBOX live squadron for this game.

It's beautiful.

This is a really good post in defense of IL2 for the console.. but I also understand where sod16 is coming and would like to state this in his defense:

I've played IL2 on the PC for a good 5 years now. When I first heard it was being handed over to a third party for release on the 360/ps3 I was very skeptical. I thought, "How can this even be possible given a controller with buttons I can count on 2 hands? ...and would console users even want to get into the level of depth known as IL2?"

Then the trailers started appearing on the net and I was instantly in love. I thought "WOW.... this is IL2 1946 with a bad@ss graphical overhaul!!!... I watched the trailers over and over and over.....

Demo day arrives and I felt like a 10 year old on Christmas! I went into the demo knowing things like the engine "management" would be non existant. There would be no prop pitch/air fuel mixture/or in flight supercharger adjustments. There would be no manifold pressure or engine damage due too overheating ...and you know what? I was just perfectly fine with that. After all this is a game console not a flight trainer. I knew that the real bread and butter of the IL2 experience boiled down to 3 areas:
the dogfighting, knowing the strengths and weakness of each plane in a combat situation, and lastly .....the awesome damage model Oleg implemented almost 10 years ago.

Sadly area #3 is horribly diluted. :( Part of what made IL2 such a good experience was the unknown. Entering combat was the enemy flak going to destroy a flap? was a bf-109 cannon shell going to blow off my rudder? Would a round unluckily pierce a fuel tank causing me to crash land over enemy territory. If I ditched was my landing gear going to extend or was it going to be a belly landing? Well heck if I have to belly land I better find some flat ground or it's all over!!! You see this is whats sadly missing from BOP. So much fun was too be had just trying to ditch a plane and surviving.

Now you just get instant "hollywood" explosions when your wingtip rubs the grass.

I know Anton stated that this is a flight sim not a crash simulator.... but why remove the crash aspect and dumb down the damage engine when it was already there too begin with???,,,it doesn't hurt the playability of the game on the console or confuse the masses that play console games...it only completes the awesomeness that is IL2 ,,,and I surely know that the 360/ps3 can handle ALL of this if my old P3 700mhz did 5 years ago.

Maybe it was "we ran out of time" problem with the publisher.... I don't know but it is sorely missed.

Plus If the damage is restored to its original PC state and a replay editor is included we can have BOP videos like this :grin: --->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nDZmu4YQ

[thundermuffin]

You quoted me on the wrong stuff, READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT PC GAMES AND CONSOLE GAMES, i didnt say it wont SELL or anything, and believe me i know more about economy then you, i know what'l sell more and wont, as i said im criticising SIMPLE things they could have added to make the game more convincing, and yet you go on.

LMAO again forza 2 out sold burnout baradise 4 to 1 so i dont know what you are talking about...... You cannot compared forza 1 to that, they are not of the same era.
Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

Your arrogance is deceiving you. And fine, forget what I said about sales (again would like to see your marketing/economist credentials to make such a claim) and forget what I said about console to PC comparisons. If you really want to attack my comment w/o ACTUALLY addressing the statement itself, fine, be a child.

But know this: The console crowd is more focused and, with limited releases compared to PC, their attention is easily swayed. Concessions must be made to please them. EVERY SINGLE write up of this game I have read has boasted about how this is the perfect blend of game for an arcade console audience while still giving enough gravy for the hardcore. So complaining about G-Fore deformation is falling on deaf ears. If you want those features, play the earlier versions of the game.

And about Burnout: Paradise... where are you getting your numbers... because that claim is both ludicrous and idiotic... For example: Forza 2 in the month of June 2007 debuted at #6 and eventually moved into the 5 spot selling 500,000 copies... Burnout was in 1st for both consoles in January 2008 and is continuing to sell AMAZINGLY given their after release support.

All of this is off topic, I know, but you brought the fight to me with your sheer arrogance.

[Riceball]

Do you even understand English

I'll give you a few things that i notist

and no dont say the xbox is too crap

When on tail out side view

C'mon. That's funny.:grin:

[Desode]

Sod16, I have been playing the pc ver of Il2 since it came out. I love it and I even dare to say it is a form of religion to me. I will be all over SOW when it hits in 2010.

That being said, I'm never going to stop playing pc flight sims , but I was floored by this game. I mean lets be honest here. Probably 90% of console players who get this game won't last 5 minutes flying on Sim mode.

I expected BOP to be almost all arcade and it is a very,very, FAR cry from all arcade. For me personally I will give my support 100% to this game. Its going to be great playing against console players on this in MP.

Yeah there are a few things that need fixed and tweaked and things that should have been left in and added in and trust me I agree with on somethings. I think alot of people on here also agree with some of your points.
Your writting just comes off as blunt/abrassive and I think thats why you got some harsh post replies. I don't mind it , Hell I know how forums are.

I just really feel that this game is important for the Sim market. If it can make money and bring new people to the sim scene then well I will give it my praise.
I'm very sure that when people get done playing BOP,a lot of sales will be then coming to Il2 1946 ! Hey Hey HEY ! Thats more noobs for us to rape in Hyperlobby !

Anton and his team have been very good at listening to our opinions.
Sod16, just send your polite suggestions to his thread in a good construtive way and let the dev team know. Trust me they know what kind of standards a lot of us expect when a game carries a name like IL2 Sturmovik !

Just please keep in mind that this is their first run at it, and they are bringing something to the console market that has never been seen there before. I'm sure that if this game does well enough, the sequel will be way better and after dealing with Anton and his crew, I know they will listen to us way more on the creation of a sequel.

Welcome to the forums Sod16.

DESODE

[trk29]

Maybe it was "we ran out of time" problem with the publisher.... I don't know but it is sorely missed.




Anton did say that they actually persuaded the publisher to let them put the sim mode in the game. It almost didn't make it in to the game.

[juz1]

Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

then seeing that there's lots of us here, why bother?

keep working on those people skills....

child..
________
GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD (http://gmfoods.info/)

[Lord-Tuinboy]

I thought the damage model looks great ? But why on earth don't your wheels come of at high speeds ?

Well atleast you can play I'm still waiting for another 3 weeks for my xbox to return from the grave :mad:

[sod16]

C'mon. That's funny.:grin:

Again idiocity, you've ran out of things to say so you like to cherry pick... How long did that take you to find and fine tune? I dont care ok stop posting pointless stuff here, at least everyone else is saying something interesting.

[sod16]

Anton did say that they actually persuaded the publisher to let them put the sim mode in the game. It almost didn't make it in to the game.

Have you people not notist how crap arcade flight games are? In terms of REVIEWS alone, most of them get craptastic scores because they are boring, say if il 2 was to sell a lot, then there might be future compatition.

[sod16]

This is a really good post in defense of IL2 for the console.. but I also understand where sod16 is coming and would like to state this in his defense:

I've played IL2 on the PC for a good 5 years now. When I first heard it was being handed over to a third party for release on the 360/ps3 I was very skeptical. I thought, "How can this even be possible given a controller with buttons I can count on 2 hands? ...and would console users even want to get into the level of depth known as IL2?"

Then the trailers started appearing on the net and I was instantly in love. I thought "WOW.... this is IL2 1946 with a bad@ss graphical overhaul!!!... I watched the trailers over and over and over.....

Demo day arrives and I felt like a 10 year old on Christmas! I went into the demo knowing things like the engine "management" would be non existant. There would be no prop pitch/air fuel mixture/or in flight supercharger adjustments. There would be no manifold pressure or engine damage due too overheating ...and you know what? I was just perfectly fine with that. After all this is a game console not a flight trainer. I knew that the real bread and butter of the IL2 experience boiled down to 3 areas:
the dogfighting, knowing the strengths and weakness of each plane in a combat situation, and lastly .....the awesome damage model Oleg implemented almost 10 years ago.

Sadly area #3 is horribly diluted. :( Part of what made IL2 such a good experience was the unknown. Entering combat was the enemy flak going to destroy a flap? was a bf-109 cannon shell going to blow off my rudder? Would a round unluckily pierce a fuel tank causing me to crash land over enemy territory. If I ditched was my landing gear going to extend or was it going to be a belly landing? Well heck if I have to belly land I better find some flat ground or it's all over!!! You see this is whats sadly missing from BOP. So much fun was too be had just trying to ditch a plane and surviving.

Now you just get instant "hollywood" explosions when your wingtip rubs the grass.

I know Anton stated that this is a flight sim not a crash simulator.... but why remove the crash aspect and dumb down the damage engine when it was already there too begin with???,,,it doesn't hurt the playability of the game on the console or confuse the masses that play console games...it only completes the awesomeness that is IL2 ,,,and I surely know that the 360/ps3 can handle ALL of this if my old P3 700mhz did 5 years ago.

Maybe it was "we ran out of time" problem with the publisher.... I don't know but it is sorely missed.

Plus If the damage is restored to its original PC state and a replay editor is included we can have BOP videos like this :grin: --->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nDZmu4YQ

I totally agree with everything you've said.

[sod16]

Your arrogance is deceiving you. And fine, forget what I said about sales (again would like to see your marketing/economist credentials to make such a claim) and forget what I said about console to PC comparisons. If you really want to attack my comment w/o ACTUALLY addressing the statement itself, fine, be a child.

But know this: The console crowd is more focused and, with limited releases compared to PC, their attention is easily swayed. Concessions must be made to please them. EVERY SINGLE write up of this game I have read has boasted about how this is the perfect blend of game for an arcade console audience while still giving enough gravy for the hardcore. So complaining about G-Fore deformation is falling on deaf ears. If you want those features, play the earlier versions of the game.

And about Burnout: Paradise... where are you getting your numbers... because that claim is both ludicrous and idiotic... For example: Forza 2 in the month of June 2007 debuted at #6 and eventually moved into the 5 spot selling 500,000 copies... Burnout was in 1st for both consoles in January 2008 and is continuing to sell AMAZINGLY given their after release support.

All of this is off topic, I know, but you brought the fight to me with your sheer arrogance.

I knew arrogance was going to come into this, but you know, what can you do... Look it does not matter, i like burnout paradise because its smooth, i also love forza 2. You know what though, forza is brilliant at being a simulator (well getting better), burnout is a famous series which was exremely fun to play with friends online. Flight sims on the other hand are known to be quiet boring and not well done such as blazing angels. Those fat 50 year old men in charge of everything are too blind to notist that even a 12 year old likes the idea of realistic, and that if this was a sucess (3 million copies or more) it might go two ways, either the publisher is too blind to notice its the simulation thats selling it, so they bug them to make it more fake and more like eurofighter physics on meth, or for a second release they might boast about more realistic features. We'l have to see.. My personal opinion is that it might not fly off the shelves because people think its another "boring crappy blazing angels thats too hard to play or too easy to play".

[Antinko1]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I agree with Butterfield to a large extent and I would love to see the damage model be as complex as it is in the PC version of the game; however, I don't think it's too much of a big deal when it boils down to it.

I'd rather take a slightly 'dumbed down' damage model and great 'everything else' over super accurate damage and empty game lobbies. I don't wish to sound too hyperbolic but my point is that I don't think that the (God I sound like a snob here) 'masses' will appreciate simulation like we do. The majority of XBOX Live players I know simply like to plug and play*. IL-2 BoP's learning curve is still going to be steep to a player who is used to arcade style flying games and I doubt that they'll stick around very long to appreciate the nuances of having individual aelerons shot off!

So I think it's a matter of give and take. 1C are breaking into a new market and they have to attract new players whilst remaining as loyal as they can to their current player based. I think that they're doing mostly everything right and I'm certainly going to be more forgiving since this is their first attempt. This game certainly beats the living daylights out of H.A.W.X, Blazing Angels and that new one which is coming out which looks rubbish...Heroes over Europe.

*I may be wrong when it comes to applying my perspective to a wider context: I'm just writing from experience and I've only been exposed to what probably is a small percentage of XBOX Live players. :)

[H Lecter]

too blind to notist that even a 12 year old likes the idea of realistic

Yup. When I was 12 I played Microprose's (what an awesome company, I miss them!) Gunship on Commodore C64. I was amazed by the level of detail and invested a lot of time into learning how to do an autorotation landing and understanding the different weapon systems of my helicopter and the opposing enemy forces.

Maybe this is different today. Or wait, actually it's not. The reason why console players are playing dumb games is that they hardly get anything else.

IL-2 tries at least to go into a different direction and if the success proves that they were right we may see a sequel that will hopefully include also a more complex damage model like in the original PC game.

Give the publishers a bit of time to see that their decision to go down the sim route was right ;)

[butterfield]

Yup. When I was 12 I played Microprose's (what an awesome company, I miss them!) Gunship on Commodore C64. I was amazed by the level of detail and invested a lot of time into learning how to do an autorotation landing and understanding the different weapon systems of my helicopter and the opposing enemy forces.

Maybe this is different today. Or wait, actually it's not. The reason why console players are playing dumb games is that they hardly get anything else.

IL-2 tries at least to go into a different direction and if the success proves that they were right we may see a sequel that will hopefully include also a more complex damage model like in the original PC game.

Give the publishers a bit of time to see that their decision to go down the sim route was right ;)

I remember Gunship on my Amiga 500! For me though the start was flight simulator 1 or 2 on the Apple IIe when I was like 8.... I remember being instantly hooked just sitting on the runway trying to figure out how to take off. Anyway, I was amazed by like you said "the level of detail". Most kids are not stupid and like a realistic game/sim that immerses them.

[sod16]

I remember Gunship on my Amiga 500! For me though the start was flight simulator 1 or 2 on the Apple IIe when I was like 8.... I remember being instantly hooked just sitting on the runway trying to figure out how to take off. Anyway, I was amazed by like you said "the level of detail". Most kids are not stupid and like a realistic game/sim that immerses them.

Publishers are to stupid to know that everyone likes a bit of realistic, they think it wont sell, they are taking the wii approach.

[IamKFAM]

ummmm all the way to the bank. Publishers publish what sells. Instead of telling them they are dumb for selling things. Work on your fellow gamers.
It will work better.

To put it another way:

If everyone is buying turd sammiches...

Soon everyone will be selling turd sammiches.

Tell everyone to stop buying it. Make mine a Ham and Swiss with amazingly detailed holes coded in.

[Anton Yudintsev]

ummmm all the way to the bank. Publishers publish what sells. Instead of telling them they are dumb for selling things. Work on your fellow gamers.
It will work better.

Exactly.
I guess, if BoP won't succeed there won't be any console realisitc flight sim game in next decade.

EDIT: Hadn't meant it to sound like a blackmail :) Just my own thoughts. Of course, don't buy the game if you don't like it.

[IamKFAM]

I'm gonna give 'em as gifts... tryin to do my part....

[H Lecter]

Exactly.
I guess, if BoP won't succeed there won't be any console realisitc flight sim game in next decade.

EDIT: Hadn't meant it to sound like a blackmail :) Just my own thoughts. Of course, don't buy the game if you don't like it.

OK, if Anton won't blackmail you then I do it! Buy the game or I will shoot this dog:

http://www.w5tom.com/Shoot_the_dog.jpg

[haitch40]

ok, if anton won't blackmail you then i do it! Buy the game or i will shoot this dog:

http://www.w5tom.com/shoot_the_dog.jpg

shoot it its ugly

[David603]

Exactly.
I guess, if BoP won't succeed there won't be any console realisitc flight sim game in next decade.

EDIT: Hadn't meant it to sound like a blackmail :) Just my own thoughts. Of course, don't buy the game if you don't like it.
You have a good point there. Birds of Prey is the first time that I can think of where someone has attempted to bring a PC flight sim series to consoles, so if the sales are dissapointing then there would be no reason for either 1C or anyone else to try again.

Hopefully if Birds of Prey sells well then we will see not just sequels but also other PC flight sims making the jump to consoles.

[PulpzillA]

anton has the damage model been dumbed down or not compared to the pc version?
a simple answer would stop all this bickering.

[butterfield]

anton has the damage model been dumbed down or not compared to the pc version?
a simple answer would stop all this bickering.


He already stated yes. He didn't use the term dumbed down though.

I think folks.. like myself ..are just venting their frustrations because certain damage and crash landings were removed and wish it was there like the PC ver.

[PulpzillA]

im kinda just concerned that it isnt as dynamic as it was on the pc. i see the same bits get damaged and fall off and it always seems to be the left wing that gets a massive hole in it.

[H Lecter]

im kinda just concerned that it isnt as dynamic as it was on the pc. i see the same bits get damaged and fall off and it always seems to be the left wing that gets a massive hole in it.

Both wings can have massive holes, but they'll always be at the same place due to a simplified damage model compared to the PC version. Compared to other console flight games it's still better imho.

[thundermuffin]

Ok sod, I'm now starting to agree with you completely. Having read butterfields description of the excitement of bailing and making sure you survive, and seeing discussions in other threads about how crash landing and surviving in multiplayer should reward the pilot who landed not who took out the plane, I see were you are coming from. That does sound exciting, and would be a great experience for someone new to the series like me. I guess I was just arguing your tactlessness, not your points, so I apologize.
PS: I love Forza 2 as well.

[jt_medina]

This is a really good post in defense of IL2 for the console.. but I also understand where sod16 is coming and would like to state this in his defense:

I've played IL2 on the PC for a good 5 years now. When I first heard it was being handed over to a third party for release on the 360/ps3 I was very skeptical. I thought, "How can this even be possible given a controller with buttons I can count on 2 hands? ...and would console users even want to get into the level of depth known as IL2?"

Then the trailers started appearing on the net and I was instantly in love. I thought "WOW.... this is IL2 1946 with a bad@ss graphical overhaul!!!... I watched the trailers over and over and over.....

Demo day arrives and I felt like a 10 year old on Christmas! I went into the demo knowing things like the engine "management" would be non existant. There would be no prop pitch/air fuel mixture/or in flight supercharger adjustments. There would be no manifold pressure or engine damage due too overheating ...and you know what? I was just perfectly fine with that. After all this is a game console not a flight trainer. I knew that the real bread and butter of the IL2 experience boiled down to 3 areas:
the dogfighting, knowing the strengths and weakness of each plane in a combat situation, and lastly .....the awesome damage model Oleg implemented almost 10 years ago.

Sadly area #3 is horribly diluted. :( Part of what made IL2 such a good experience was the unknown. Entering combat was the enemy flak going to destroy a flap? was a bf-109 cannon shell going to blow off my rudder? Would a round unluckily pierce a fuel tank causing me to crash land over enemy territory. If I ditched was my landing gear going to extend or was it going to be a belly landing? Well heck if I have to belly land I better find some flat ground or it's all over!!! You see this is whats sadly missing from BOP. So much fun was too be had just trying to ditch a plane and surviving.

Now you just get instant "hollywood" explosions when your wingtip rubs the grass.

I know Anton stated that this is a flight sim not a crash simulator.... but why remove the crash aspect and dumb down the damage engine when it was already there too begin with???,,,it doesn't hurt the playability of the game on the console or confuse the masses that play console games...it only completes the awesomeness that is IL2 ,,,and I surely know that the 360/ps3 can handle ALL of this if my old P3 700mhz did 5 years ago.

Maybe it was "we ran out of time" problem with the publisher.... I don't know but it is sorely missed.

Plus If the damage is restored to its original PC state and a replay editor is included we can have BOP videos like this :grin: --->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nDZmu4YQ

+1 amen

[Bael]

Publishers are to stupid to know that everyone likes a bit of realistic, they think it wont sell, they are taking the wii approach.

They're not 'too stupid' - they're businessmen with enough experience to know where the real money is at. Games that are easy to pick up sell more units, period. Most gamers measure 'realism' with far less scrutiny than Sim fanatics - "Whoa, my plane stalled - this is so realistic!" vs "Arcade rubbish - why don't my wheels rip off at this airspeed?!!". They're worlds apart, and most gamers are too intimidated by sim levels of realism. Sims, and flight sims in particular (due to their high barrier-to-entry), are a niche category.. no matter how many people are on these forums and clamoring for more realism we're still just a very small portion of the huge potential install-base publishers are going after.

The only way consoles are ever going to get a full sim is by approaching it gradually like BoP - by primarily creating an arcade flyer and sneaking in as many optional sim elements as they can for the fanatics. Until a sim developer is in a position where they don't have publishers calling the shots for them they're going to have to focus on the majority. Hopefully BoP can raise enough eyebrows to become the 'Forza' of console flying games, gain a little prestige in the console industry, and be given free reign to venture deeper into the sim territory than normal.

I think the game itself, judging from the demo, is great - I'm actually more worried that not enough people know about it, or will actually pass it up thinking it's too much of a sim (due to the IL-2 moniker). Provided BoP gets some proper marketing I'm positive it'll do well enough for a sequel - a good BoP + flight stick bundle couldn't hurt either! *grin*

And before I get the whole "I know more than you.." internet-know-it-all treatment I'll just note that I'm a professional game developer, with multiple current-gen console titles under my belt. When you're making a console game you have to pick and choose your battles - no developer gets to do everything they want to. A lot of things fall outside of the publishers focus (like wheels coming off) and just have to get dropped due to time constraints.

[thundermuffin]

They're not 'too stupid' - they're businessmen with enough experience to know where the real money is at. Games that are easy to pick up sell more units, period. Most gamers measure 'realism' with far less scrutiny than Sim fanatics - "Whoa, my plane stalled - this is so realistic!" vs "Arcade rubbish - why don't my wheels rip off at this airspeed?!!". They're worlds apart, and most gamers are too intimidated by sim levels of realism. Sims, and flight sims in particular (due to their high barrier-to-entry), are a niche category.. no matter how many people are on these forums and clamoring for more realism we're still just a very small portion of the huge potential install-base publishers are going after.

The only way consoles are ever going to get a full sim is by approaching it gradually like BoP - by primarily creating an arcade flyer and sneaking in as many optional sim elements as they can for the fanatics. Until a sim developer is in a position where they don't have publishers calling the shots for them they're going to have to focus on the majority. Hopefully BoP can raise enough eyebrows to become the 'Forza' of console flying games, gain a little prestige in the console industry, and be given free reign to venture deeper into the sim territory than normal.

I think the game itself, judging from the demo, is great - I'm actually more worried that not enough people know about it, or will actually pass it up thinking it's too much of a sim (due to the IL-2 moniker). Provided BoP gets some proper marketing I'm positive it'll do well enough for a sequel - a good BoP + flight stick bundle couldn't hurt either! *grin*

And before I get the whole "I know more than you.." internet-know-it-all treatment I'll just note that I'm a professional game developer, with multiple current-gen console titles under my belt. When you're making a console game you have to pick and choose your battles - no developer gets to do everything they want to. A lot of things fall outside of the publishers focus (like wheels coming off) and just have to get dropped due to time constraints.

Well said.
+1 in my book.
But actually to add to your point. I don't think that it will get the recognition it deserves because of the IL-2 moniker not registering AT ALL, let alone being tied to sims. I had NO idea what IL-2 was until I got the demo and WHAM! my dreams had come true. This is what I have always wanted out of a game but have never been able to effectively pursue it because of my love for Mac's... damn Apple...

[trk29]

Well said.
+1 in my book.
But actually to add to your point. I don't think that it will get the recognition it deserves because of the IL-2 moniker not registering AT ALL, let alone being tied to sims. I had NO idea what IL-2 was until I got the demo and WHAM! my dreams had come true. This is what I have always wanted out of a game but have never been able to effectively pursue it because of my love for Mac's... damn Apple...

I sort of feel your pain. I used to have the original IL2 and a PC, now I have a mac and there is nothing out there for me except mediocre flying games and I don't want to infect my apple with windows to run IL2.:-P

[mondo]

Please. :rolleyes: You're kidding right?



Just because wheels don't rip off at high speed ,which I doubt was common,

Common enough for big warning stickers in the cockpits about lowering gear and flaps above certain speeds. 200mph is enough to destroy most things apart from airbrakes ;)

[sod16]

They're not 'too stupid' - they're businessmen with enough experience to know where the real money is at. Games that are easy to pick up sell more units, period. Most gamers measure 'realism' with far less scrutiny than Sim fanatics - "Whoa, my plane stalled - this is so realistic!" vs "Arcade rubbish - why don't my wheels rip off at this airspeed?!!". They're worlds apart, and most gamers are too intimidated by sim levels of realism. Sims, and flight sims in particular (due to their high barrier-to-entry), are a niche category.. no matter how many people are on these forums and clamoring for more realism we're still just a very small portion of the huge potential install-base publishers are going after.

The only way consoles are ever going to get a full sim is by approaching it gradually like BoP - by primarily creating an arcade flyer and sneaking in as many optional sim elements as they can for the fanatics. Until a sim developer is in a position where they don't have publishers calling the shots for them they're going to have to focus on the majority. Hopefully BoP can raise enough eyebrows to become the 'Forza' of console flying games, gain a little prestige in the console industry, and be given free reign to venture deeper into the sim territory than normal.

I think the game itself, judging from the demo, is great - I'm actually more worried that not enough people know about it, or will actually pass it up thinking it's too much of a sim (due to the IL-2 moniker). Provided BoP gets some proper marketing I'm positive it'll do well enough for a sequel - a good BoP + flight stick bundle couldn't hurt either! *grin*

And before I get the whole "I know more than you.." internet-know-it-all treatment I'll just note that I'm a professional game developer, with multiple current-gen console titles under my belt. When you're making a console game you have to pick and choose your battles - no developer gets to do everything they want to. A lot of things fall outside of the publishers focus (like wheels coming off) and just have to get dropped due to time constraints.

Non of my freinds heard about it, i was not supprised either, fight arcade games alone are not popular, especially if the advertising is done by a 6 year old.

[sod16]

Well said.
+1 in my book.
But actually to add to your point. I don't think that it will get the recognition it deserves because of the IL-2 moniker not registering AT ALL, let alone being tied to sims. I had NO idea what IL-2 was until I got the demo and WHAM! my dreams had come true. This is what I have always wanted out of a game but have never been able to effectively pursue it because of my love for Mac's... damn Apple...

If you have a decent new mac, you can easily install Windows by downloading it off the microsoft site or i wont say the other ways you can get it... I think it was called boot camp or something with the latest OS. il 2 does not need hoursepower to run it but im hoping you have a intel based computer.

[juz1]

especially if the advertising is done by a 6 year old.

are they outsourcing the advertising ?
:grin:
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