View Full Version : Time tips
McSwan
07-31-2009, 04:00 AM
Hi,
What are some good time saving tips?
I always pause the game after a battle with space bar before choosing my next target. This means I can have a fair chunk of rage left over for the next fight, and it's fast.
Getting sprouts and such can be good so you don't have to go back for reinforcements.
Are there any good tools that you can see your time, all the time. I think I'm doing something that makes me go slower than I should be.
Does, for example, going from greenwort to the swamps cost time? Likewise does entering dungeons and such cost time?
About game time tool, in bottom left there's a mid disc showing day/night. When you put the mouse cursor over it it should show detailed game time, day/hours/mn.
Some game versions had not this information or had lost this, but for example 1.7 should work fine. So update your version or reinstall if you don't have this time detailed information.
Some game saving time tips:
Always pause before saving or save when you are in a castle.
Always pause the game, for example walk with successive pauses, pause before any battle and after any battle.
Use Resurrect and Sacrifice to maintain and increase stacks.
Travels with zeppelin/boat/train/submarine that you do by talking with a NPC should be minimized. At arrival it will always be 7AM. For example it is 7H05 AM day 5 when you use such travel, at arrival it will be 7AM day 6.
Walking there and there cost time so try plan your walking, for example don't forget open all quest close by, don't rush to take a quest reward because you just finished it but take reward only when you plan will lead you there.
When an animation is shown time continue to run but you can skip many animation with esc key. For example animations for boat travel or most escalators.
Experiment a little with walking path, there are some some non obvious shortcuts.
Wait cost as much time than walking ie a lot, so don't wait that an enemy move out so you dodge it easily, fight it, plan another general path, try dodge anyway.
In beginning of the game there's not far a Knight tent. It is guarded by a very strong army but you could attract it elsewhere and access to this tent to buy Horseman or sometimes Knight. That tips is a little tedious to apply but this can be a huge time bonus for first area.
Scout the game to adapt your plan path to real contents of current game. Scout with dodging or even cheat code, just reload and don't use useless dodging or cheat code when you really play the game for the time record.
If you want attempt a time record the better is to experiment it with normal mode and then apply it in impossible mode.
Now good luck for best record, current best posted here is 7 days and 102 quests. :)
McSwan
08-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Cheers,
Day 3 and I've only cleared verion forest and greenwort, although I grabbed the free stuff int he swamp and got the spirit of rage first up. Still that's too slow and I was very careful with time. I was aiming for 0 losses as well, so I might have to give up the 0 losses.
It's clearly much more difficult to attempt at same time zero loss and a short game time.
But for not loosing time it's important to not not have too many loss.
McSwan
08-03-2009, 12:24 AM
Do you think it has to played in a very linear fashion ? I was thinking of doing the plumes quest, and getting the chest of rage, then going hard on time.
"
Travels with zeppelin/boat/train/submarine that you do by talking with a NPC should be minimized. At arrival it will always be 7AM. For example it is 7H05 AM day 5 when you use such travel, at arrival it will be 7AM day 6.
"
So if you leave at 6H55min day 5 will you arrive at 7AM Day 5 ( or 6) ie trip take 5 min or more than 24H?
or do aim to
ideally leave at 11:59 day 4 and arrive at 7am day 5 where smallest trip time possible is 7 hours. (max 23 hours)
Hmm I might have to test it. It would mean regardless of your situation you must catch the boat at a precise time, as travelling represents the biggest time loss.
For travels through a NPC dialog with zeppelin/boat/train/submarine:
It is Day 5, 6H59 AM, you travel, then you arrive day 5 7H AM. Travel took 1mn.
It is Day 5, 7H01 AM, you travel, then you arrive day 6 7H AM. Travel took 1 day minus 1 mn.
Take care of the animation trick I quote, if you don't skip them some will use more than 5mn of game time.
There's one and only one exception to this rule, it's the travel to go to Turtle island, for this case your travel will only take the game time to run the animation. But the travel back from Turtle island to Darion follow the standard 7AM trick.
About playing it linear, well there isn't only one way to do it. If you want make a 7 day game there's certainly many margins there and there and many alternate choices.
One of the more challenging area for the game time point of view is Darion. But you have choices and that depends of your game. To win the maximum time there's no secret you rely on finding fast enough Gift + Inquisitor or Resurrection. To win even more time you rely on finding sacrifice that allows increase your stacks without many walking. So if you find soon Inquisitor + Gift + Sacrifice you can save a significant game time, in this case you get more margin.
In my game I didn't find Sacrifice until Freedom Islands and had inquisitors and Gift in Swamp only. So I tempered this by many little tricks and one of those tricks was to not rush to the rage box to save many walk. But the price is huge because of the tactical plus that gives Sleem in the game beginning. One thing before getting Sleem is probably to be sure you'll really get profit of it. I think you need have at least rage of 20 otherwise in most first battles it will be useless if you are a mage. If you are a warrior rage fill up much faster and this can be tempered. Myself I set my limit to rage 30 before go to rage box in urge and this had the effect to not change my path at all for the rage box. But even for a mage the alternate option is a possibility to look at. For a warrior the point of view is clearly different.
The better is to try different options by yourself for the game you selected. If I remember well I played 3 times the same game before Freedom Islands until I find a fair way to manage Darion and game time.
McSwan
08-03-2009, 06:05 AM
Hmm,
So I need a perfect schedule.
Given that travel time can be almost complete negated, you have to play around it.
Start
Day 1 12:00
Day 2 6:30am -> Goto Turtle -> kill him -> return before 7:00 am
Day 3 6:30am -> goto freedom Isles
Day 4 6:30am -> return from freedom isles
Day 5 6:30am -> goto elf land
Day 6 6:30am -> return from elf land
Day 7 6:30am -> head back to elf land after getting the key.
Day 7 kill haas.
Man that is tight, and it doesn't look possible to complete it in less than 7days.
Do you think it could be done with 0 losses?
Can you increase the numbers of royal thorns with sacrifice ?
And yeah the animations, especially in demonis would slow u down, something I'll need to remember.
I might try it with paladin as it has never been done in 7 days with paladin as far as I'm aware.
My plan might be to get chest of rage quest, maybe dragon tooth quest, goto swamps get royal thorns ( will need 760 leadership.. ouch!) and inquis, kill everything till I can. then go turtle, and follow schedule. Might need to replay it a couple of times so it's faster/possible.
If I can't hit the schedule then I'd need to replay it. A good way of knowing if I've done it fast enough.
About Demonis animations those cannot be skip. The more simple is just try escape key and if you get the menu you cannot skip the animation.
About Thorn, Royal Thorn or any troop, you can restore them all with sacrifice but your spell power need to be high enough to restore that much life level. That includes the sacrifice spell level and the int level and any magic attack bonus from skill or items.
Yes that's the way to make it in 7 days. Yes it's not possible to do better... if you refuse using all resources of the game.
There's a trick to fast travel, which is totally standard but you have a price to pay. This way is using the retreat command in a normal fight. Then you are instantly transported to Darion King castle.
The price is you don't bring with you your army and have to build a new one. This trick is even compatible with zero loss because you can let in a castle your last troop and leave with no army. Then at next fight you will automatically lost and get back to Darion King Castle.
In fact even with troops I suspect that if you use the flee command or have all you troops not under your control and automatically lost the fight you lost your troops but that doesn't count in final board, I'm not sure of this last point.
That's with that trick I achieved all quests in 7 days and beat previous record and that's with that trick that I'm looking for a path in 6 days.
McSwan
08-03-2009, 07:11 AM
Hmm nice trick with instant travel via death.
Start
Day 1 12:00
Day 2 6:30am -> Goto Turtle -> kill him -> return before 7:00 am -> (there's nothing to kill you on the island after u kill the turtle, so you can't return via dying)
Day 3 6:30am -> goto freedom Isles
Day 4 ?12:00am? -> return from freedom isles by dying, leave enough time to open elf lands
Day 4 6:45am -> goto elf land
Day 4 ?12:00am? -> return from elf land via death
Day 5 6:30am -> head back to elf land after getting the key.
Day 5 kill haas.
Might have to kill yourself a fair bit to get back to castle in time to catch the next too, ie when your in the dwarf lands.
very, very. hard but might be possible...
Lol funny, do the game in 5 days. In fact it's perhaps possible but I doubt in order to achieve a higher score because to go that fast you'll need skip some quests and probably not finish level 30. Still a funny (and extreme) challenge.
For a 6 days path it's the idea but not the first shortcut. But definitely the second shortcut. Now I have finished from begin to end in 7 days I see well where you have too much time and where you don't and what you can delay or not.
Key points with the second shortcut is that:
Demonis isn't that much harder than many fights of Undead lands.
So you could reduce drastically Elven day by skipping many things and start lower level Demonis.
Demonis can be done very fast despite the wait because of teleporters.
Doing the Labyrinth plus Murock is very fast, I finished the game at 13H30 and took some time before starting the labyrinth. So perhaps it can be done for 12H00 AM and that let 12H before 24H.
When you come back to Elven lands for the labyrinth you can achieve some stuff in Elven and Undead lands before to start the Labyrinth.
I'm not sure it's really doable and beat my last record because:
I know demonis and stuff around can be done very fast but not how fast and if it's fast enough.
I know you can skip stuff in Elven and Undead lands but how much to be able do Demonis in same day, I don't have yet the answer.
The number of quests done and hero level count in final score. In 6 days I can only skip 1 quest or end level 29 to beat the score, more quests skip will involve a lower score (1723 for 6 days, level 30 and 101 quests vs 1727 for 7 days, level 30, 103 quests).
Now there's another option for the 6 days game, it's to use both shortcuts you mention to win time for Creiston + Hagar + Taron + Ardan's Peaks + Mehgard. Alas this option also involves a base of 102 quests so all other quests should be done and level 30 reach. That's still an excellent option for a 6 days game. But I admit I'm highly tempted to use the first shortcut to achieve the last Freedom Island quest that gives an interesting item, the Anga's Ruby. This quest requires you get back in Freedom Islands and that's not possible with the path you describe.
In fact I think I'll attempt an easy game and try do it in 6 days to get an idea. The problem is resources you get in a game can involve very different problems in another game with different resources. That point is also why I'm tempted to try the 6 days, because I quote in my game resources that match well this shortcut. In fact I used it to achieve 103 quests instead of 102.
Also the different difficulty could involve to not see some problem at harder difficulty.
EDIT: In 5 day, hero level 30, 3 quests can be skip and still beat current high score, the result is 1728 vs current 1727!! But that won't beat 6 days with 1 quest skip that gives 1732. :)
McSwan
08-04-2009, 01:38 AM
Have you got a points calculator ? :) Ahh that's right, they show the formula.
Yes I imagine clearing freedom and dwarven mines in a single day to be near impossible with completing all the quests. You'd have to have a really good idea on the exact order that you're going to complete the quests, and have near perfect pathing. It's funny how getting anga's ruby may give you a higher score, so yes, I think that 6 days would give you the highest score + it's more "doable".
Man you'd have to be careful not to miss a single quest.
Still it'd be nice kudos to actually finish it in 5 days.
I do wonder about my choice of paladin. The +15 attack vs undead and demons might be very useful in demonis and undead lands, but yeah I think with mage or warrior this would be easier.
I'll try and do the darion without loss, and then start taking losses at freedom isle as it has to be done rediculously fast, then maybe go back later and see how fast it can be done without loss.
Yes I put the score formula in a calc. 5 days minus a quest gives 1747 and cannot be beat by 6 days so it's still a theoretical option to do it in 5 days without doing the Anga Ruby quest. That one would be the real absolute score. No idea if it's really possible or not.
I never played Paladin but I suspect that Warrior would be a better choice for a 5 days game, not sure.
For not missing a single quest, it's not really the problem but I still have the problem to not forget start a quest when I'm close to location for starting it or do some quest part. To solve this problem I end in write down list of stuff to not forget associated to locations.
Freedom Islands can be done relatively fast if you don't lost a second in hunting Pirates Ships. I just tried be coherent and finished 5 hours before the limit, I wonder if a much more optimized path can be used.
To manage Kraken and not lost too much time nor do it too soon I applied a cool trick. My path was roughly organized in order to reach the ship that will lead to Kraken I follow it but in same time explored/did the fights on the road and when not too far from Kraken I didn't want fight yet I stop follow the ship to continue elsewhere and later. The ship waited here so I just had reach the kraken place to fight it instead of having to do the long road a second time by following the hunter captain ship. But for the best speed I doubt the kraken could be delayed like that and the path would need to be organized in order to be able do it when the path involves it.
Another point I quote to win time in Freedom Islands is the underground with some undead, no quest is linked to this area. But xp price could be too high.
Currently I'm playing a game in Normal mode and well pick mage anyway I'll try 6 days with mage. If I don't succeed it in 6 days in normal then I doubt I will in impossible mode. Alas if I succeed in normal mode it won't mean that I'll do it in impossible mode too. The problem isn't really the higher difficulty but the different path options involved by a higher difficulty.
I also got a problem to select a game by quick scouting, it seems easy mode doesn't provide good spells but plenty great items. I switch to normal mode but again didn't succeed select a game until I get a strange combination Sacrifice + Hypnotize (through item). I have also Magic Spring but it seems not Gift in first areas. Ha well I try this game I'll select another one only if I feel this combination change too much an optimized path.
McSwan
08-04-2009, 07:29 AM
Another issue is that you lose your entire army when you death teleport, so you'll have to pick up a completely new army each time you do it. You could get your elf army back when you head back to the elf lands, but it'd be hard to get an elf army going in demonis. maybe dwarfs or demons, demons prob be bad due to the paladin not getting his +15 attack.
Your only option I think is to do the quests and not to worry too much about going off road gaining xp, otherwise you may fail to complete all the quests in time. If you get time at the end, then go back to them otherwise I'd ignore them, as 1 battle in the higher levels equal 10 in the lower levels.
Is there a way to gain free/max xp apart from paladin skill? I take it summoned creatures do not give xtra xp.
I'll have to check out the kraken and see if there are speed ups for it.
I consider the quests Archmage rezo, Cursed Child and Mage Range impossible to do before Freedom Islands, I could be wrong but I doubt. But to get more xp you could do Archmage rezo fights up to Gremlins battle, it should not make you lost too much time but still a little.
The Abandoned Castle quest is certainly to attempt before Freedom Islands. If I remember well Calinda made it but the final fight and a Paladin did it too before Freedom Islands but not sure it was all fights. Myself I didn't but I'll try.
About Turtle Battle there are two tricks:
The more simple is using Magic Spring + Last Hero + A stack of one unit fast enough to reach Turtle at second round before Turtle attack at second round and despite Turtle slow spell. This solution requires moving close to Turtle, like right to its head (not in front the head) and cast last hero, next round cast magic spring, next round cast last hero and so on. During this time the 4 other stacks, long range will attack the turtle. One caution is always cast a spell when the unit close to turtle has already spend his turn. So you need in your army a stack with higher initiative than turtle but lower than the unit in contact with turtle.
The other trick is to use 2 stacks of 1 Warrior Thorn each. Move them closer to Turtle. Next round move one close to turtle and the second closer to turtle but close to the other Thorn. Then at each round the turtle kill a Thorn, the other Thorn use the dead body to generate a new Thorn and so on. The turtle will always kill the older Thorn. But you could need use haste at the beginning and Battle Cry if a thorn generated is a hunter instead of a warrior because of initiative problem with the turtle. I'm not sure of those last two points. And for this trick too when a unit go close to turtle at second round it should not be in front of the turtle head.
About 6h15 it's because you forget the animations trick I quoted. You need escape both animations, at travel start and at travel arrival. Then in theory 20mn is enough but myself I let me 30mn to be safer.
EDIT: I'm curious, for this attempt, could you summarize what you've already done before the turtle?
McSwan
08-07-2009, 01:14 AM
Turtle battle
I didn't have last hero on the turtle battle, I did have royal thorns though. I mainly tanked with the horsemen + archmage shield, and healed the horseman, and eventually had to swap the horse out for thorns occasionally, healed with priests as well. Res'ed with inquisitors. The battle came down to the wire, I had to do 65 damage to kill the turtle with the priests, otherwise the turtle would've killed a non-resurrectable horseman. I think your strat would've been better! Ran back to dirgible with about 2 min spare, skipped anims. (without it I wouldn't have made it -ty.) soooo close.. 0 losses still. Killed him at level 5.
Perfect start:
Restart until you get items you like and royal thorns in bagaba's castle. You have to goto the other frog that wants you to hang his banner on babaga's castle, then back to bag's castle and sometimes royal thorns appear in there. If not, restart. For me, I got banner (+800 leadership) and head piece that gave +400 leadership.
Ok, you need 760 leadership by the time you get to bag castle so you can buy 2 royal thorns without having to backtrack. Always choose leadership on level up.
Aim to have max mana and rage at end of battle, regenerate it with the thorns, poison cloud etc. Start battle with fish attack mostly, don't forget to use zeerocks abilities at start as much as possible to to level him up, esp on easy fights.
I think that all this might be for naught if sacrifice isn't in the starting area though.
So the order I've done it is roughly:
* Do plumes quest.
* (Do nearby easy quests on the way to carl and martha, don't backtrack though because you'll head back this way, grab leadership flags) do bear quest, get beholder quest.
* Get boat to do
* Do carl and martha,
* Do dragon tooth quest,
* Pickup frog princess quest from argus on way back to greenwort, get horsemen if you want them.
* Get chest of rage.
* Do abandoned castle - just run around bad guys.
* Head to swamps, goto swamp see old chivala (by boat cause it's faster)
* Get alchemist quest,
* Progress lost city quest, Carl and martha quest, princess frog quest, bag flag quest
* Goto BAG castle and get royal thorns, hopefully you will have 760 leadership by now.
* Head to greenwort and clear it out, do werewolf quest last, marry rina,
* Do as much of verion forest before having to go kill turtle.
* Clear out verion forest ( this is where I'm up to)
* Clear out Arlina, hand in carl and martha quests, frog princess etc.
* Head to swamps etc
If you know you're gonna head past a place later on, don't bother handing it in until you head past it like the Carl and Martha quest, frog quest etc.
The quests that will be a pain are
* especially enemin quest
* rezo tower ( walk back to hand in)
The above might *have* to be done pre freedom isles. I suspect they might only be possible if you get sacrifice in starting area. c'mon sacrifice..
* Griffins quest ( too much walking ?)
* Titans Tear
* anga's ruby (impossible to do)
// Do not double post, use edit option - Elwin
I don't think I ever used the exact same path but there are always similarities with them and also with the one you did.
For game selection, scrolls available are my main focus even if items are important too. Mage (like warrior) need a substitute for Paladin res scroll. Scrolls I'm looking at are Magic Spring soon enough, Gift + Inquisitor (or Res), Target. All are required for my game selection. I'm also looking to get Stone Skin and Trap not too late.
Yes sacrifice is important too but get in Darion Gift + Inq and Sacrifice is a very very rare event and I gave up search that. With a Paladin my game selection would be to have sacrifice scroll before anything else.
For items I agree that the true faith banner is great despite the price. Cumulate 60k to buy it is a challenge but should be doable before Freedom Islands. The Tournament Helmet is also a great item to get soon and its price is quite lower. In my 7 days game I got the banner sooner thanks to Rina children giving money and by selling free troops found by fleeing a battle.
About rude quests I think you forget the Magic Range. During the game you have to go back to Greenwort castle using this path so Magic Range and Rezo aren't a problem to delay. In fact you have to path there after Freedom Islands but also after Hagard you need get back to Darion King to continue main quest, and after Elven Islands either with the shortcut either to get the last title giving more leadership.
By replaying the game I achieved the best first day I ever did. Before Turtle:
Level up to 6.
Stock in castle and temple troops for refill all troops I need after Turtle plus a little reserve. I only need refill Horsemen for the last refill (third) to get max stack and have a little final reserve before continue.
Clear Darion but 2 armies close to Thieves Den and one close to road and not far to Thieves Den.
Clear Arlania but Witch Underground and finish Enchanted Love quest + Castle Underground + Magic Range + Rezo Tower + One Hero and the two golems armies plus one weak army to refill rage before golems battles + Griffin quests + Sea Chest quest
Clear Verlon but Report Petrified Village success + The two Barbarian quests + the Dragon Wife Quest + Child and Spiders two quests + abandoned Castle Quest + One army close to left castle + 2 Barbarian Armies close to Barbarians quests goal + 2 Armies and a Hero close to Dragon Castle
Clear Swamp but one Hero + Report Alchemist Zombie quest started but not done yet + Plus Report Rescue the Frogs quest when done + All Frogs quests but I already started the first quest to do the castle battle and open those quests.
I also have sea stuff to do in Verlon and Arlania but that will be included in a circle sea travel including Griffin quests, Sea Chest quest and first Barbarian quest.
I have all swamp cemetery to do but I didn't lost more time than for a required Inquisitor refill so didn't lost much time here.
The more funny is that if in previous attempts I never reach level 6 before turtle I'm not fully sure I'll win time in comparison. The point is I already done more in Verlon before Turtle but not a so good troop preparation nor so much in Swamp and Arlania as this include all swamp witches quests done including final report to Carl for Carl and Martha quest. At least all armies and battles still to do in Swamp and Arlania are close to quests still to do except one in Arlania with stuff close by to take.
Also I'm rather well prepared in term of troops and reserve but (and there's a link) I could have done a major class management mistake by taking Reserve 2 too soon. My bet is it's more powerful to have two armies choices at same time for different opponents. At least I did this risked choice not long before doing the turtle so the replay won't be too big.
Razorflame
08-08-2009, 04:08 PM
how did u clear out the rezo tower before level 5? assuming u haven't got it when u clear out darion
and what troops u use for the final battle? that battle is quite tough and with such a low level i hardly think u have enough mana unless u got lucky and found a magic spring but even then that job is quite hard;)
with such low troops :>
Mmm I believed that: I eat all the fruits but the apples means: I eat all the fruits except the apples.
Turtle battle...
// Do not double post, use edit option - Elwin
Where's the original post? I wonder! :grin:
//Its there, I merged posts and same goes for yours :> Elwin
//Ha ok you mean two posts in a row by the same user, that's a sort of language abuse. Double post should mean the same post two times. Well where are the sample ethics rules of this forum? They are perhaps hidden in the faq. They should be highlighted (and sample to read) if now strict order is becoming the forum new mood.
Razorflame
08-09-2009, 07:17 PM
yes vilk but u haven't answered my question yet :(
yes vilk but u haven't answered my question yet :(
I answered... woo you push me into illegality after force me to out of topic now you force me to double post!
So the answer:
I believed that: I eat all the fruits but the apples means: I eat all the fruits except the apples.
And I think my believing is right. So read again the original post and quote your question wasn't relevant. :)
Razorflame
08-09-2009, 11:53 PM
bah so it's impossible to do xD
If not impossible that would be extremely difficult. At level 5 even with ton of luck you'll hardly have the items, troops, spells and mana to do the job. The gremlins tower are difficult to control and in this fight there's plenty enemy magical attack this adds difficulty to use something based on target. A weird tactic based on Green dragon + invisibility could even not work because of a too low leadership at this level.
Well if you play the game without to take care of time you could perhaps use dodging intensively to collect all stuff, pay for mandatory battle in Freedom Islands, dodge again like hell up to Demonis and again dodge to collect stuff. With such weird tactic you could perhaps collect enough leadership, spells, mana bonus and even find green dragon and come back level 5 to do the Rezo tower. Very difficult but impossible I don't know.
Razorflame
08-10-2009, 11:18 AM
and most likely at level 5 you will hardly have enough good skill or spells to that will make it even harder
^^
McSwan
08-11-2009, 01:18 AM
I didn't notice the double post, don't know what happened there.
Anyway I'd suggest that by "clearing rezo's tower" he meant that he cleared it up to the staff.
Yep, I was around level 5~6 on the turtle.
I missed 1 army in abandoned tower and several in the spider hole on griffin island ... ran out of time for those, and couldn't do medusa.
Now I need to figure out a perfect path for freedom isles... Without mana spring I don't think I can achieve it with zero losses as well. Do you think it can be done in 12 hours ?
I'm beginning to think about using vamps and cursed ghosts to take the hits, and use them for sacrificing
What's Medusa? A hero? For Griffins tower it should not be done too soon because some stuff here can be rude if you make it too low level. In theory dodging won't win much more time than killing what's on the path.
There's a good opportunity to make the griffin underground later, sea chest need to be report to harbor close to the Griffins and take all chest won't lead you close to this harbor. So even if you go close to griffins island first, not make it yet is a wise choice and make it only when later you'll report the sea chests quest at harbor. I had the opportunity to do that but instead I did Griffins underground asap so at level 7 and well I got there 2.5 nightmare fights. :) One of them was so rude that I lost 7 Cursed Ghost and had in my army not enough Cursed Ghost to restore their stack with fighting, first time it happened to me.
No Mana Spring? Man you are very good if you can do it without this spell.
For Freedom Islands do it in 1/2 day seems a bit extreme. I won't say it's not possible but I think that if this is possible, it's by skipping any fight not on quests roads. If I was you I'd try a quick scouting with cheating to time it. Take care that in this case the time is always faster than with a real play. It's because you do it quick and forget details or even won't quote the army impossible to beat that will make you lost time.
About Vampires and Cursed Ghost:
You cannot sacrifice any undead (nor plants, stone and units immune to magic).
About taking the hit, I don't like vamps much I feel them too weak.
Ghost are too difficult to manage when your army size becomes bigger and when your attack increase.
Cursed Ghost are extremely good units if you don't aim for zero loss. The 50% physical resistance and ability to regenerate during a fight are priceless.
Vampire don't have this resistance but Ancient Vampire are rather good despite they don't have this resistance too.
Cursed Ghost is the perfect target with spell support in 70% of the fights but for many of those fights it's a challenge to succeed keep them on control. And that's possible but take a long time to learn.
If you have ancient vampires I'd suggest you try them to take the hit particularly if you have sacrifice. If you don't have sacrifice or don't have ancient vampire I'd suggest you try cursed ghost and be patient with the unavoidable errors you'll do about controlling them. Take care that they show their best if you can provide them spell support ie Stoneskin and Archmage Shield. But in many cases to control them you'll need use only one of those protection or use it only at first rounds. In tougher fights with target you'll certainly need both quite often. Peacefulness is another option to keep control on them more easily but objectively most often it's not the best option.
McSwan
08-11-2009, 07:19 AM
The medusa is the level 9 combat trial thing in the knights place at the start. I lose at least a quarter of my army when I fight that battle.
Dam, so you can't sacrifice ghosts to get more royal thorns.
I'm gonna have to do a really big scout in freedom isles to find where mana spring is, or even if it is there at all.
Ha right, I remember medusa now.
Now I think of it, I don't understand you didn't get magic spring when it's a fixed reward of turtle battle. You probably sell it by error or don't use the 1.7 version.
McSwan
08-11-2009, 11:41 PM
It is? Hmm maybe I did it too fast. I haven't ever seen it as a fixed reward for the turtle battle. I'll try it again... If it is then I've wasted about 3 days in real life playing time lol... go me....<..insert swear words.. >
Mmm I checked and it's quite probable I'm wrong. Ooops sorry.
After Turtle lost and shaman flee you need speak again with the turtle (or it's forced) and at end of this dialog you'll receive two scrolls but not necessary Magic Spring unlike what I believed. I hope you have your save game to check it by doing again the turtle battle and see the reward.
I'm not fully sure but I retract what I said. :-)
EDIT: Shame on me, I checked with a warrior savegame, replayed the battle, ask to the turtle, agree to give blood, make the pact with the turtle, nothing. I cannot believe it. I go checking again.
McSwan
08-12-2009, 04:40 AM
I'll check it out when I get home. I hit escape a lot so maybe I cancelled it.
I checked a third time to be sure and well you can bash my head, virtually :) .
From a warrior game, I drop all scrolls to be sure. And the warrior does the same dialog choices but at end doesn't receive 2 scrolls.
I apologize.
EDIT: The only point is my savegame come all from the 1.64 version but the more recent that comes from 1.7. Gamebanshee walkthrough mentions two scrolls reward, but I suspect this is wrong even with savegame from 1.7. It's quite possible that this is only for mage.
McSwan
08-12-2009, 06:35 AM
The first time I ever played I remember getting sacrifice from the turtle on my mage.
I wonder if the warrior gets something else.
I think I'm probably being to precious with my troops. I really like having 0 losses. The main advantage of mana spring is it allowed me to have 0 losses, when I go sacrificing.
I found I need 13 Intelligence for lev 1. sacrifice to raise 1 royal thorn. It's kinda handy to use level 1 sac as it uses less mana. My warrior has had a lot of int upgrades, and no attack or def upgrades. I'm assuming that the thorns will be awesome vs kraken, as each dead stack of fish = a new stack of thorns.
I think I'll replay it with losses, so I can get max no of royal thorns before freedom isles, and maybe I'll be able to do it with redicuously small amounts of mana.
Have you got any starting save games where you've got:
1 or 2 items at the start that give the +10 runes, royal thorns and you get sac, gift and mana spring before Darion ?
Myself I don't like much the no loss point of view, if you lost few stuff go on you need go for resurrect and worse if it's unit that requires sacrifice. Not to mention when you don't have sacrifice the pain it is. If I liked the no loss point of view I would not use Cursed Ghost. The point for them is at one fight you lost few at next fight you get them back if not more.
You found sacrifice in your current game? It is very handy but less without magic spring or without resurrection from inq or spell. Sacrifice damages are considered like many attack spells and get the same bonus than them, bonus from int, skill destruction and few items increasing attack spells damages.
In my current game I have Royal Thorn in Freedom Islands and in previous play I increased their stack through sacrifice only to make the Kraken fight and later the Giant Spider. In both you get some problem of encumbrance but they clearly make those fights easier.
Before Darion? You mean get sac and gift in the training? Amazing! ;) No need mention any items, i just didn't get both in Darion. Is it the warrior game you had got?
And for curiosity, what army(ies) did you used in Darion?
McSwan
08-13-2009, 12:38 AM
I meant before Freedom isles.. oops ;)
Yep, I wanted to play the perfect game, fastest game smallest losses.
I needed mana spring to make that dream a reality, which I didn't get :(.
I like trying to play with 0 losses, in fact I started playing the game on impossible with 0 losses, so this is first time I've ever played it where I've accepted taking losses to attempt to get a high score.
It's a lot easier game when you can send your troops to there death willy-nilly. I think cursed ghosts make it easier to beat with 0 units lost, as with proper management you don't need to live in fear of them dying and not being able to res em.
Anyway, up to freedom isles and I headed straight for kraken quest doing all quests along the way.
In Darion I had shooting units and swapped horsemen/royal snakes.
Lol, shooting units, can't you be more specific?
McSwan
08-13-2009, 05:57 AM
Royal thorns, inquis, druids, arch mages mainly, sometimes I swapped in archers.
On a 0 loss game you can't get more royal thorns easily. So I swapped them out pretty soon until I could get more.
Tried using ghosts at start but didn't have enough of them for them to replicate.
Woo there was druids in Darion, perhaps in druid shop? That is an original choice, eventually I have some in my current game but didn't notice because that's a troop I didn't found useful, but I can be wrong. :)
Yes Royal Thorn are a problem if you don't have sacrifice. I didn't used them often but in some special fights (kraken, giant spider, karador) because either I get them too late and their fire weakness and low initiative is then a pain, either not find them easy to use because of sacrifice.
Myself I'm using in Darion Ancient Bear, Archmage, Inq, Priest in almost all fights. And with that base, Cursed Ghost or Alchemist, and in last part of Darion I added Royal Snake 5th choice. But well in few fights like with Tiberus I regret not have a non magical long range, like to easily kill the evil books.
EDIT: I forget, at beginning I was also using Horsemen, until the pack was too low for my Leadership.
McSwan
08-14-2009, 01:23 AM
Sorry, I meant priests not druids ;)
Ancient bears would've been good if I had magic spring.
Lol, tried starting again, with mage, tried to get the perfect game. Kept restarting, and failing.
Do you have a starting save game with royal thorns, sac, gift, magic spring, (in Darion) with nice items at the start?
Do you have a starting save game with royal thorns, sac, gift, magic spring, (in Darion) with nice items at the start?
That's second time you ask. :) I already answered, nope. Is this the warrior game you get?
McSwan
08-14-2009, 07:01 AM
In my warrior game I miss out on magic spring. It isn't in freedom isles either.
My paladin had no sacrifice, and it wasn't in freedom isles.
Probably easiest to score that combo on a mage because they get magic spring from the turtle, where as warriors don't get it. Paladins could probably do it without gift.
With that combo I think I could beat the time, and have no losses, which I think would be the ultimate game.
No, forget what I said for mage and turtle, mage get 2 scrolls but I think I'm wrong when I wrote it was magic spring and last hero.
Too bad for the warrior game the sets of scrolls and items was quite nice. It's rather surprising you didn't get any magic spring in Darion, I didn't played that many games but always get it in Darion. And you can find it in many places at Darion.
For a 5 days game, if possible, I would bet more on warrior because the biggest challenge is quite soon in Freedom Islands and then Hagard when a mage hasn't yet reach his full power.
EDIT: Today (later) I'll try again for doing the rude fights before Freedom Islands. My plan is Abandoned Castle included all painting and last fight, reach level 10 during this, do magic range, option is do the standard fights in Rezo tower, reach level 11, learn Higher Magic, beat Enemen. I have setup a demonic path and plan to do it. ;) Ok I have to admit I'm not sure I can do that but there's a possibility.
EDIT2: First part done, including last fight of abandoned castle, I only lost 12 Cursed Ghost in this battle, fine for me, anyway I had plenty in reserve. I didn't search a lot but without them, I wonder if I could do that battle. With an attack of only 4 my attack power was too low with other methods like blind+slow.
EDIT4: I tried Enemen but well I don't see how I could manage the necromancer stacks, I need some more skills, spells and some higher level spells, if not more leadership and attack. :)
So I also did Magic Range and all fights, no dodging. I won't say it was easy but the superiority brought by Cursed Ghost + Target + Support make them ok. The more difficult was the first despite the game show it less strong than other of magic range. The point was that I had to combine target and slow and that's easy to do a mistake. The easiest could have been Demons but in practice has been Humans because even if it was the longer it's the only one I done at first attempt. Below some snapshots showing the key position for each.
So I finished Darion level 11 (34128 xp) at 3H11 AM day 3. I didn't fight Medusa, Neutral Griffins, the funny Royal Thorn :), Enemem, Gremlins fight of Rezo tower, one small stack not far from Rezo tower. I finally fight Tiberius even if it was a pain.
In term of time, I still have to give a Cyclop to Magic School and beat Enemen. But in fact Enemen requires a bit less of 1H from king castle to king castle. When it's more 1H30/2H for Abandoned Castle and Magic Range. Even if Magic Range is on path you have to end the quest and go to Magic Academy.
Also finish Darion except the rude fight at 22H day 2, is a bit soon. After that, beside rude fights I also take some time to get some more troops and some potions forgot in a shop. Too bad I cannot do Rezo or Enemen to win a bit more time as I had the time to do it before Freedom Islands.
EDIT: One point I forget add, preparing army restore from freedom islands for a 5/6 days game. You can win a bit more time to have all stacks ready at castle. Ok you can only have an approximate Leadership evaluation but still. Also you need take care keep some money for items in shops of Freedom Islands. For my game I get ready stack for some troops and with a large Leadership expectation, some stacks I have in no shop I let a part of them to increase with sacrifice I'll have in Freedom Islands... and let one easy fight not far from castle to restore some stacks with sacrifice. Lol I had let an enemy stack for that and during rush to level 11, I forget it, thanks it's in last fight and only 22xp so I'll still be level 11. :grin:
Razorflame
08-16-2009, 09:23 AM
well done but what path did u take(and what troop selection?
or is that priest/royal/cursed ghost/archimages?
Thanks. I don't think there's a single path the best valid for any game. I clearly go faster than all my previous attempt but the reason are spread through many points.
For example, in this game, I had inquisitors at Paladin Shop and Cemetery Temple, Cursed Ghost at Northern Beach of Arliana, Royal Snake at Young Witch in Swamps, Gift at Old Witch in Swamps, Magic Spring close to Polar Bear, Ancient Bear in Arliana Castle, Stone Skin at Islands South of Griffins Islands, Target deeper in the Cemetery, Banner of Faith at King Castle worthing 60k. You can add to that, Priests in almost all shops, Horsemen at Knight tent but no Knights, Archmage in usual places.
So the path I used is a mix between not lost time and pick items I consider important in time. From this base some example of decisions:
Stone Skin is far from starting points, has no fight around doable until some level up. So I gave up consider getting it until late in game.
Gift and Inquisitor are rather important because this bring a res tool. But to get Gift and Inq i had to pay them so I consider going into swamps later but sooner than being able to kill stuff around. And when i get there, i take opportunity to start all quests, Old Witch, Young Witch, Alchemist, Brown Frog, and even choose to do the youth potion quest. But i could do all of that because I could dodge without wait time and not lost much time because of dodging.- and killing asap strong armies there was pointless as anywhere quests will lead me there again later.
In beginning Horsemen are very helpful to save time by allowing fewer loss. But each time I get there, the time lost is at least 35/40mn and in fact more because of the time required to get back to continue current stuff. So i organized to get there only three time. I wait be able to get 2 Horsemen from money and leadership point of view. Then next time before going to the Tent, I put the 2 Horsemen in the king castle. And third and last time I take care have a reserve and money to buy all still at tent and put in king Castle.
Another example is Ancient Bear, not that far because in Arliana Castle but still. So first time I get there at same time I was going at Knight tent. Second time I put all I had in king castle before go buy a full stack at Arliana Castle. And once when leadership had increased multiple and still no path opportunity to buy more but instead I took opportunity to let them in castle and buy a full stack of bear that was on my path.
Or Priest, later in the game I choose them instead of Archer only because I had them into many many shops unlike Archer and could get many opportunities to fill or increase the stack without to lost time.
When a path is going to lead me close to a shop where I'll buy a scroll, I take care the path bring me first to a castle and that I sell enough scroll to have a slot to buy more scrolls.
I also use probably all path shortcut and I'm sure this win significant time. There are some significants in all area and the game pathfinding and obstacles look could make you not see them a long time if you don't search them specifically and learn how use them despite the weird pathfinding.
You can add to that all the more obvious like to organize quests parts to save walking time, to not rush at first shop if your stacks aren't at max size, to try beat an army on the path instead of dodging it and keep it for later (when it's possible), to try buy any useful item and scroll when you go at a shop to not lost time later to get back buy stuff, and so on.
Close to Dragon Castle in Verlon I had a strong and very fast hero. dodging it was too much time lost and beat him not possible when I go first in Verlon. So I adapt my general path by not doing at all the Verlon part around this area and quests linked and keep them for later when anyway I had some walk and quest not far to do with barbarian quests.
For armies, that is also linked to game resources that are different from one game to another. Also it depends of the game progression. I used in time order:
Archmage, Priest, Archer, Swordman
Archmage, Horsemen, Ancient Bear, Priest, Archer
Archmage, Horsemen, Bear, Priest, Archer (after a sum of leadership Increase I put Ancient Bear in King Castle and buy a full bear stack that was on my path)
Archmage, Horsemen, Ancient Bear, Priest, Archer (Ancient Bear back)
Archmage, Inquisitor, Horsemen, Ancient Bear, Priest
Archmage, Inquisitor, Horsemen, Ancient Bear, Alchemist, Priest
Archmage, Inquisitor, Horsemen, Ancient Bear, Cursed Ghost, Alchemist, Priest
Archmage, Inquisitor, Cursed Ghost, Ancient Bear, Alchemist, Priest, Cursed Ghost in Reserve (At this point the leadership was really too high making the too low stack of Horsemen not an interesting option)
Archmage, Inquisitor, Cursed Ghost, Ancient Bear, Royal Snake, Priest, Cursed Ghost in Reserve
I didn't used that much Cursed Ghosts in Darion but they was still a key for many very more difficult battles. But in no way they have been my single anwser. I will probably use them much more in Freedom Islands and later in the game.
EDIT: No I'm not a Priest fan, it's just an opportunist use in Darion, I won't bring any in Freedom Islands.
McSwan
08-18-2009, 12:47 AM
Ha, nice, doing magic range at start, never even thought of doing that.
I replayed the mage and he does get magic spring and last hero from the turtle.
Also, the 3 brothers quest in freedom isles, one of the brothers gives you a map to a treasure. Does this actually count as a separate quest, or can you just choose the the brother that stops the other brothers from killing you?
Does the travel by dirgible between the kings castle and dwarf kings castle take time ?
I'm thinking that I'll only have about 5~6hours left after I come back from freedom.
So I should skip any time consuming quests, and concentrate on getting to elf lands at 7am day 4.
Then day 4 go straight to elf queen then to karador, return, do demonis, and enemon, griffin king etc. anything skipped, then by some miracle, go back to elf lands by day 5, finish elf quests, then onto final battle.
Hmm sounds nearly impossible to me...
What quests can you only do half of, and still be counted as being completed?
The fat pirate wife quest makes you go back and forth a lot. Can you quit half way through and still count as completed?
Elwin
08-18-2009, 09:42 AM
traveling with derigibles always take time, dont use it if u aim for good time/score
No the brother map treasure doesn't count as a quest.
The quest that count for the final score are all those log in the quest diary and are only those. To have the complete list of all those quests you can check the gamebanshee walkthrough, it lists all quests that count for final score and only those quests.
As far I know all quests need to be completed up to end otherwise it won't count at all in final score, it will count as an unfinished quest and will bring no point.
I have started to investigate the Freedom Islands from an optimized time point of view and even if I found few tricks I never used before, do it in 12 hours only seem, for now, impossible. The point is also that I'm not only looking to do the quests but also to do as much fight than possible and pick as much stuff than possible. I consider that too low level can be killer later even if there's some margin.
Well also my current goal is 6 days, not 5 days but I'm looking to play Freedom Islands in a way I could reuse for a later 5 days attempt.
McSwan
08-19-2009, 12:13 AM
Ahh righto, I'll have to watch how the quests spawn, particularly the ones that make you go back and forth 3 times, maybe they can be counted as completed when you finish the first part and refuse to do the rest.
Zhuangzi
09-16-2009, 05:35 AM
Vilk, what difficulty was your 7 day game? I am pretty good at this game but I can't see how it could be done on Impossible. Am I wrong? :-)
EDIT: Nevermind, it looks like it was impossible. Next question, are you avoiding difficult stacks in doing this?
Razorflame
09-18-2009, 09:57 PM
no
he waiting for MAGIC spring and resu/gif/sacri
the shit back;-)
^^
trentjaspar
05-11-2012, 10:29 PM
An additional time tip I didn't see here is that when you level (either yourself or one of your spirits), the game is NOT paused even though it looks like a modal (blocking) dialog box. So choose quickly, or presumably you can pause the game while the level-up screen is displayed-- I have to verify.
I got burnt by this twice. The first time I didn't notice until it was too late and lost half a day (including overnight). The next time I noticed but it meant I had to re-do a difficult, long battle that I had done successfully with no losses while also sacrificing up my Inquisitors to max leadership.
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