Il-2 Simulator for consoles we'll see.

[MajorMinor]

Its good to hear a few vehement comments saying consoles are capable of running full simulations and they are not just the domain of PCs, keep shouting and the console game developers may hear you. I do sometimes feel that console developers prefer games which consists of a short 10 hour blast with in your face graphics rather than something a bit more enduring and satisfying. I've got to say its a bit worrying that the Birds of Pry demo I just saw says: "The demo does not represent the final quality of the game". Maybe those lovely graphics are stretching the console hardware a bit too much we'll have to see, but I do hope for console users the game is kept as realistic in terms of flight dynamics for the different aircraft and fire power as possible; its a lot more fun but I wonder if the console hardware with its limited memory can handle a proper sim. Also, I find making my own missions more fun and creative than the ones in the games, so I also hope for the sake of console players they install a good mission editor. I've got to talk about this since there's not a lot happening on the PC front at the moment.

[trk29]

Its good to hear a few vehement comments saying consoles are capable of running full simulations and they are not just the domain of PCs, keep shouting and the console game developers may hear you. I do sometimes feel that console developers prefer games which consists of a short 10 hour blast with in your face graphics rather than something a bit more enduring and satisfying. I've got to say its a bit worrying that the Birds of Pry demo I just saw says: "The demo does not represent the final quality of the game". Maybe those lovely graphics are stretching the console hardware a bit too much we'll have to see, but I do hope for console users the game is kept as realistic in terms of flight dynamics for the different aircraft and fire power as possible; its a lot more fun but I wonder if the console hardware with its limited memory can handle a proper sim. Also, I find making my own missions more fun and creative than the ones in the games, so I also hope for the sake of console players they install a good mission editor. I've got to talk about this since there's not a lot happening on the PC front at the moment.


Sorry no mission editor.

[haitch40]

[QUOTE=MajorMinor;83121] I've got to say its a bit worrying that the Birds of Pry demo I just saw says: "The demo does not represent the final quality of the game".]
all demos say that its because the demo is released before the full game is finished

[haitch40]

[QUOTE=MajorMinor;83121] I've got to say its a bit worrying that the Birds of Pry demo I just saw says: "The demo does not represent the final quality of the game".]
all demos say that its because the demo is released before the full game is finished

thats twice ive accidently deleted quote brackets

[Roadie]

Sorry no mission editor.

Why? In acc. to 1UP.com there is a mission editor! Look there:
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3174970&p=4

[Kartman013]

Its good to hear a few vehement comments saying consoles are capable of running full simulations and they are not just the domain of PCs, keep shouting and the console game developers may hear you. I do sometimes feel that console developers prefer games which consists of a short 10 hour blast with in your face graphics rather than something a bit more enduring and satisfying. I've got to say its a bit worrying that the Birds of Pry demo I just saw says: "The demo does not represent the final quality of the game". Maybe those lovely graphics are stretching the console hardware a bit too much we'll have to see, but I do hope for console users the game is kept as realistic in terms of flight dynamics for the different aircraft and fire power as possible; its a lot more fun but I wonder if the console hardware with its limited memory can handle a proper sim. Also, I find making my own missions more fun and creative than the ones in the games, so I also hope for the sake of console players they install a good mission editor. I've got to talk about this since there's not a lot happening on the PC front at the moment.

As a former PC flight simulator addict (literally, I spent way too much time and money upgrading my forever ailing PC in an effort smoothly simulate the real thing :neutral:), I think we need to be grateful that there is at least one simulator-esque game finally being brought to game consoles. It's a massive step in the right direction in a genre that has virtually been ignored because the demand has fallen dramatically. Who knows, if this game is successful maybe someday we'll see console ports of LOMAC and other realistic sims. Either way I think it's crucial that we support IL2 BOP even if it's missing a few key elements that we all loved from PC games. As long as the feel is there, the look and the passion is in the game, we should support it to no end.

[Raw Kryptonite]

Agreed! It's not easy to find new sims for the pc either, other than 2-3 that recently came out--the first in a long while. If IL-2 does well on consoles it's good for the entire genre and may save it. 15 years ago you'd see entire shelves filled with flight sims, it's sad that they're so rare now, just mods on older games for the most part.

Over G Fighters is a game on the sim side of things on the 360, but more like Wings Over Europe than LOMAC. The flight and weapons are right, but controls are basic (but well done).

[trk29]

Why? In acc. to 1UP.com there is a mission editor! Look there:
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3174970&p=4

At your link he says to whether meaning maybe there will be a mission editor?

Anton stated no mission editor. The only thing you can do is training (free flight) missions you can select your payload, fuel, and ammo. That is the only type of editing there is.

[juz1]

Its good to hear a few vehement comments saying consoles are capable of running full simulations .


like where? No one here is suggesting a console=PC?? Are they??

yes you can get a simmy game on a console, and just be grateful seeing that the console dollar might well fund further pc flight sim production...its all just business...alot more people want shoot stuff for 10 minutes than landing a Jumbo at Honkers in the wet (albeit that's a greater challenge)...
________
Honda st1100 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_ST1100)

[trk29]

Well since there has not been a sim on a console closest thing probably is Over-G anybody can speculate what this game is or isn't going to be.

And since none of us here have ever played the game than none of us can say it's not a simulator.

And all these reviews we have read or seen, not one of them were played on simulation all on arcade or realistic so these threads are pointless.

[Axe99]

From memory, Microsoft did release a version of it's flight simulator for the original Xbox, so it has been done before (although I suspect a combat sim should have been tried before a civvy one!) - but the market for consoles is broader now, and the PC sim market declining.

@MajorMinor - if you've been playing flight sims for any period of time, you'd know that current consoles have well and truly enough horsepower to run a number of classic sims (including the original IL-2 and it's sequel) without working up a sweat - I'd be _very_ surprised if either the 360 or the PS3 couldn't handle any of the current sims on the market, with perhaps some concession in texture detail to the more resource or memory-intensive ones. The issue for flight sims on consoles isn't about the hardware this gen (far from it), it's about getting the audience over. Hopefully, with PC on decline, there are enough former PC aviators that are interested in trying things out on the console space. Combine that with higher resolution TVs and former PC pilots may well jump over, and hopefully get a few non-simmers into it as well. As a console gamer first and foremost (but former PC gamer, and a fan of IL-2:FB) I definitely think there's hope - don't forget that the driving genre on consoles is dominated by GT, the claim to fame of which is realism in handling and the like. We just need to get a similar interest in realistic flight games, and it'll be good :).

[dandymountfarto]

"I've got to talk about this since there's not a lot happening on the PC front at the moment."

doesnt that tell you something? microsoft have dissolved their flight sim team, you're looking well into next year for the next generation of Il-2, and how much will you need to spend to be able to play that to its full potential? Birds of Prey may not end up being a true "simulator" but it will be no less of a game than any PC based title. and dont forget that even the PC's sims could be scaled back to nothing more than arcade flyers, so its not mutually exclusive. i still play 1946, BoB2: WofV, heck even EAW on my PC, and if BoP can match those then whats the problem?

get off your fanboy horse and be thankful that someone is finally willing to make a genuine attempt at making a mass market game that is more than a WWII Ace Combat.

and dont forget - at the end of the day it is a GAME.

[mondo]

I'd be _very_ surprised if either the 360 or the PS3 couldn't handle any of the current sims on the market, with perhaps some concession in texture detail to the more resource or memory-intensive ones. Hopefully, with PC on decline, there are enough former PC aviators that are interested in trying things out on the console space.

I don't think DCS Blackshark will make it to any console any time soon. It needs a uber PC to get the most out of it and the number of controls would mean a custom controller for consoles.

The trouble with all flight sims on consoles (not that there has ever been a 'sim' on a console) is the controller. You cannot map all the controls needed to fly a plane to a controller and the control sticks themselves are crap and have to be heavily filtered to work with a stick with a 2cm deflection. If the controls are unfiltered then people will pickup this sim, hit fly and immediately stall and spin because of the short stick deflection. Even with a 1ft long 'proper' flight stick like a CH Fighter, WW2 fighters are hard to fly precisely and takes long hours of practice to fly in formation let alone line up a plane to shoot at.

Just a run through of the controls I need when flying a plane in a WW2 sim like IL2:
4 buttons for weapons systems plus toggles for weapon switches like 190's wing cannon
6 buttons for 3 trim axis + a reset method for each axis (all planes have at least 1 trimmable axis)
Throttle
2 buttons for prop pitch
2+ buttons for multiengine
2 buttons for super/turbo charger
2 buttons for fuel mix
2 buttons for flaps
1 button for landing gear
2 buttons for lights
8 buttons for bomb aiming and release +1 for level flight (probably not in BOP)
5 buttons for manual gun sight (such as on a P51D or a late Spit IX)
1 for canopy + 1 for seat raise on some naval fighters
1 for arrester hook
1 button for MW50 or similar boost system (WEP can auto engage on some aircraft)
1 button for radiator cowl
1 button for dive breaks

I'm really happy to see a 'sim' coming to consoles but I feel it will be watered down, especially where the controls are concerned.

BTW PC isn't in decline. The PC market is still growing going by all industry stats.

[David603]

I suspect that the controls will be simplified by cutting out less essential functions like landing lights, or by making them automatic. An Xbox 360 controller has 8 buttons, plus 2 analogue sticks and a D-Pad, and the PS3 controller has the same number. I know from previews that pitch and roll are mapped to the left analogue stick, while throttle and yaw are mapped to the right. This isn't as good as a flight stick, but these are available for both consoles and it is better than a keyboard/mouse.

That leaves 8 buttons. For the 360 I would map the fire button for the MGs/Cannon to the right trigger, and any ordinance carried to the left trigger. Trim would be the left bumper, and the right bumper would be the undercarriage. X and Y would toggle on/off for the supercharger and boost, while A is the target lock button, tapping it cycles targets and B would turn it off. Since simulation and realistic difficulties don't have target lock, I would map the prop pitch and radiator settings to A and B for these modes. Clicking the left analogue stick would lower or retract the flaps, and their position would depend on whether you had the undercarriage down and in the air or on the ground. Clicking the right analogue stick would open or close the canopy.

The D-Pad is for wingmen orders, Start is for the Esc menu and Back would toggle the map.

So, you can do most of the important things you could do with a keyboard/mouse using just the buttons on a game pad.

[dce21b]

http://www.bluetomorrow.com/content/section/462/616/

I just wish they would realize that this is available and both mouse and keyboard are compatible with ps3. So now i just use this with both my pc/ps3 and it just takes a second to switch.

Also wish that they would make it so you can use a keyboard mouse set up on FPS as well.

[mondo]

Trim would be the left bumper

I still don't see it. Trim is by far the most important controls after the throttle and control surfaces (assuming landing gear and flaps are taken care of) and those need 6 easy to use buttons for it ( positive and negative for elevator, rudder and ailerons).

Without elevator trim most if not all prop planes will be impossible to fly with any degree of accuracy and rudder trim is required all through the speed range with the only exceptions being the 190 and 109 which have flettner tabs.

[David603]

I still don't see it. Trim is by far the most important controls after the throttle and control surfaces (assuming landing gear and flaps are taken care of) and those need 6 easy to use buttons for it ( positive and negative for elevator, rudder and ailerons).

Without elevator trim most if not all prop planes will be impossible to fly with any degree of accuracy and rudder trim is required all through the speed range with the only exceptions being the 190 and 109 which have flettner tabs.
This would work so that when the left bumper (LB) was held down, the analogue sticks would adjust trim instead of moving the control surfaces.

[mondo]

I guess it could work. Not ideal though if your trying to trim out damage close to the ground.

Still very sceptical and would like it so I can use a keyboard with the 360 or even better my CH Hotas.

[David603]

You could make rough adjustments to trim in less than a second, though getting a perfect balance would take longer, but if I was flying near ground level with a damaged plane the last thing on my mind would be getting the plane to fly perfectly level with no control input.

[P-51]

You could make rough adjustments to trim in less than a second, though getting a perfect balance would take longer, but if I was flying near ground level with a damaged plane the last thing on my mind would be getting the plane to fly perfectly level with no control input.

I think I woul hire a dry cleaner first ;)
Chris

[David603]

I think I woul hire a dry cleaner first ;)
Chris
Great business opportunity. Fly though dry cleaner with free complimentary shots of straight vodka;)

[P-51]

haha :-P

[mondo]

but if I was flying near ground level with a damaged plane the last thing on my mind would be getting the plane to fly perfectly level with no control input.

Many years of IL2 tells me you do want to be trimmed out in this situation...you've been damaged and you need to get away, to do this you need to look at the map, looking at the map in an untrimmed and damaged plane close to the ground is very dangerous. Not to mention you'll also be looking around for who damaged you...