anton these arcade mode videos are concerning

[guiltyspark]

I am really getting the feeling that you guys want to let everyone know that this is "the same WW2 flight game that you have played since the dawn of time"

And with every demo video we see , its always on the lowest difficulty.

If you want to sell games to the people who will actually buy them based on videos they see on the internet (hardcore gamers , not casual gamers) , its best not to tell them they are retarded by telling them about all these things to help them get through the game on easy.

Tell the people why this game is so different , tell them how realistic the game is and how detailed the cockpits are for the game! Nobody wants to hear about how its like blazing angles.

Blazing angles sold copies because IT WAS THE ONLY FLIGHT GAME ON THE MARKET.

Even i felt bored watching the new footage , thats not a good sign.


Tell gamers that they will be dogfighting online just like their grandfathers did in ww2 , JUST like the real thing.

[Desode]

I am really getting the feeling that you guys want to let everyone know that this is "the same WW2 flight game that you have played since the dawn of time"

And with every demo video we see , its always on the lowest difficulty.

If you want to sell games to the people who will actually buy them based on videos they see on the internet (hardcore gamers , not casual gamers) , its best not to tell them they are retarded by telling them about all these things to help them get through the game on easy.

Tell the people why this game is so different , tell them how realistic the game is and how detailed the cockpits are for the game! Nobody wants to hear about how its like blazing angles.

Blazing angles sold copies because IT WAS THE ONLY FLIGHT GAME ON THE MARKET.

Even i felt bored watching the new footage , thats not a good sign.


Tell gamers that they will be dogfighting online just like their grandfathers did in ww2 , JUST like the real thing.


I wouldn't worry about it to much. Anton said that both Mp and Sp demos are coming and that they will have the Sim mode in there. That said, I think that will fix your worries. I know I will be making videos of the demo using the sim mode and putting them all over the web. I mean yeah I would like to see some sim footage really bad too but since Anotn confirmed the demos, I feel pretty good about that selling the game to the sim community. As console gamers we all know that the best marketing a game can get is by word of mouth spread through the console community. Demos play a HUGE part in this.
Plus we know that Anton reads these forums and we have talked about the importance of a good demo and how that can make or break a game.
When he told us that they were releasing both a SP and MP demo, I was very thrilled,because that tells me that they understand how important a demo is to selling the game in todays market. The fact that they are making both SP and MP demos with all the modes in there tells me they are on the ball.


DESODE

[jt_medina]

I agree, I don´t understand why they don´t make two different versions of the video one arcade and another simulation. I think that somehow they are losing market by not doing this.

I had the feeling of awesome graphics but I really needed to see the simulation mode.

Developers fear a lot about simulation but in my opinion a lot of console gamers demand realistic sims, maybe they are not as many as Call of Duty followers but they are still many enough to have good sales.

I think that Anton and his team have to make a lot and good videos to promote their simulator and send them to IGN, Gametrailers etc etc. Those are the places where the ""crowd"" is.

[Kartman013]

They want to sell this game to as many console gamers as possible. Of course they're going to promote the dumbed down version first. Do you honestly think they want the reputation of "this game's too hard" before it's even released?

Look at RacePro and even Forza, every promo for those games has the arcade version, with the green and red arrows on the tracks telling you to slow down and speed up (with ABS, Auto tranny etc). Don't worry about it, we - the hardcore, if you will - already know that this game has a sim element. 1C need to gently expose the game to as many people as possible, in the hopes that the casual gamer will want to learn the sim elements eventually.

[juz1]

They want to sell this game to as many console gamers as possible. Of course they're going to promote the dumbed down version first. Do you honestly think they want the reputation of "this game's too hard" before it's even released?

Look at RacePro and even Forza, every promo for those games has the arcade version, with the green and red arrows on the tracks telling you to slow down and speed up (with ABS, Auto tranny etc). Don't worry about it, we - the hardcore, if you will - already know that this game has a sim element. 1C need to gently expose the game to as many people as possible, in the hopes that the casual gamer will want to learn the sim elements eventually.

100% agree...albeit they want the "lowest common denominator" to BUY the game...which will only benefit ALL of us here. If we want detailed simmy type flying on consoles then someone has to get paid! The greater the user base the greater the support!
The drive sim is an excellent comparison...especially as flight is alot more complicated and 3 axis control taxes the brain too much for many people. People drive car games 2 ways...those that drive have an in-car view, and those that don't (or at least can't reverse park) tend to have an external view. Even directors of classic films make pap, popular shite to fund the films they REALLY want to make, and these are the films that are far more memorable. The advantage of this form of entertainment is they can provide an end product that is all things to all men...one that has the non-sim gamer sales figures and the kudos of the hardcore sim-gamer approval...bit like politicians-they need the rich peoples money AND the poorer peoples numerical support. What percentage of Sonic the Hedgehog gamers like discussing flight physics?
________
MARIJUANA BUBBLER (http://bubblers.net/)

[Rittmeister86]

I think what they are doing is a great market stategy.
While the history of this game is rooted in a PC sim, they have to push the fact that this is also an arcade game.

Most everyone here is a hardcore sim lover, as am I. I would love to see some simulator footage. I think it would be a mistake not to release some of that soon. However, we also know that the sim mode uses cockpit view only. If they were to push the sim footage, then nobody would be able to see or appreciate all of the detail this game has. From a video perspective, it would look like a game on rails.

Lets take a look at all of the previous "aviation" titles on the 360:

Over G fighters I think was first. A game that was highly underrated...but why? OGF was a game that was designed for release on the original XBOX. As such, there was no room for all the graphics that would have improved the game without sacrificing the quality of the flight mechanics. While it was not perfect, OGF significantly raised the bar on what was thought impossible to market on consoles. It was not a game that recieved much media attention, but word spread quickly throughout the gaming communities. The only real downfall of this game was the lack of those graphics in which to relate you speed to. Eventually it seemed to lay the first bridge from sims to consoles.

Blazing Angels (1 & 2) and Ace Combat 6 were fairly similar in design. They were both great arcade games, but lacked any sense of realism. While fun to play, they really didn't offer hardcore gamers what they wanted. However, sales skyrocketed. The games hard landing came when the multiplayer modes seemed to feel more like an action shooter. While the younger and more casual gamers didn't seem to mind, hardcore fans were once again out in the cold. These games became the market standard for future publishing ideas.

H.A.W.X was a major disapointment. A game that promised so much, but fell so short. There was no sense of realism at all, and the controlls felt like trying to drive a 700hp oldsmobile with bad shocks around an Indy track. Once again sales were a plenty. Why? because the creators catered to the younger more casual crowd. It was something anyone could plug in and play.

Essentially, hardcore console gamers have to realise that we consist of about a third (or less) of the console aviation genre. We are never going to be the primary focus of ANY marketing strategy. Thats what makes BOP so special. One game, and everybody is happy. Any good marketing team knows that the hardcore fans are constantly searching the internet and available resources for information. BUT...the more casual gamers are only going to buy what is shoved in front of them. This is why the marketing team has pushed the arcade mode so much. They know what we are all talking about here. They know what we want, and they have promissed it to us. We just have to trust them to deliver it. And they will, lest they ruin their reputations.

[guiltyspark]

what you guys fail to understand is that they are trying to sell it to the guy who doesnt play games.

Well it just so happens that the group of people in question dont watch videos of games online

So the argument is moot for making casual videos as they will never be seen by the casual audience

Game trailers and walkthroughs are only for hardcore gamers who know where to look.

anyone outside of that sphere only finds games at the store or luckily on TV on a commercial

[trk29]

I wouldn't worry about it to much. Anton said that both Mp and Sp demos are coming and that they will have the Sim mode in there. That said, I think that will fix your worries. I know I will be making videos of the demo using the sim mode and putting them all over the web. I mean yeah I would like to see some sim footage really bad too but since Anotn confirmed the demos, I feel pretty good about that selling the game to the sim community. As console gamers we all know that the best marketing a game can get is by word of mouth spread through the console community. Demos play a HUGE part in this.
Plus we know that Anton reads these forums and we have talked about the importance of a good demo and how that can make or break a game.
When he told us that they were releasing both a SP and MP demo, I was very thrilled,because that tells me that they understand how important a demo is to selling the game in todays market. The fact that they are making both SP and MP demos with all the modes in there tells me they are on the ball.


DESODE
What Anton said was they have made a sp and a mp demo which one they will release is still up in the air. Both are not coming. Only one will be decided on.

[Rittmeister86]

what you guys fail to understand is that they are trying to sell it to the guy who doesnt play games.

Well it just so happens that the group of people in question dont watch videos of games online

So the argument is moot for making casual videos as they will never be seen by the casual audience

Game trailers and walkthroughs are only for hardcore gamers who know where to look.

anyone outside of that sphere only finds games at the store or luckily on TV on a commercial

:!: Didn't I just say that? And what footage do you think they might use for commercials? Maybe the same trailers we see on the internet?

[Desode]

What Anton said was they have made a sp and a mp demo which one they will release is still up in the air. Both are not coming. Only one will be decided on.

Yeah your right I re-read the thread. Still the point is that they understand that a demo is that important. He clearly states that it will have both sim and arcade in the demo. That should be enough said right there. The demo will speak for itself. I don't know any gamers on my list that buy a game without playing a demo. Every week I get probably 15 messages from XBL friends about a new game coming out. XBL is a rumor mill and if the demo is a good one then the game will do well even on release day, however I do think that it will do even better a little while after release day.

I just don't see TV commercials and things like that making a difference in sales in the USA. Now if it was 10 yrs ago, then yes, it would make a difference. The best marketing going on today is social networking and thats what XBL is. I also think that magazine ads and some good ads on Ign or some place like that helps.

The ps3 isn't like that as much, but on XBL a demo makes or breaks a game on the 360. The hard core sim players are going to know about the sim mode before release date. If they don't then they aren't really sim fans.
DESODE

[jt_medina]

Essentially, hardcore console gamers have to realise that we consist of about a third (or less) of the console aviation genre. We are never going to be the primary focus of ANY marketing strategy. Thats what makes BOP so special. One game, and everybody is happy. Any good marketing team knows that the hardcore fans are constantly searching the internet and available resources for information. BUT...the more casual gamers are only going to buy what is shoved in front of them. This is why the marketing team has pushed the arcade mode so much. They know what we are all talking about here. They know what we want, and they have promissed it to us. We just have to trust them to deliver it. And they will, lest they ruin their reputations.

I liked your post but specially this part.
Good point.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Guys, that's silly.
Flight sim lovers will definetly play demo, and will be able to get their opinion before buying the game.
Casual players have to be convinced, that even demo is not too hard and worth playing.
That's why all videos are in Arcade mode.
It is reasonable, and that's why it is so.

So, please, stop ask for a sim video - it is useless. I guess, you'll play demo in any case, even if we'll make 100 more Simulation videos, huh?

[Rittmeister86]

I liked your post but specially this part.
Good point.

Thanks!

Guys, that's silly.
Flight sim lovers will definetly play demo, and will be able to get their opinion before buying the game.
Casual players have to be convinced, that even demo is not too hard and worth playing.
That's why all videos are in Arcade mode.
It is reasonable, and that's why it is so.

So, please, stop ask for a sim video - it is useless. I guess, you'll play demo in any case, even if we'll make 100 more Simulation videos, huh?

Thanks for clearing it up for us. We really do appreciate you being here for us.

[peterdegrotere]

we know sim is in the game thats fine by me, just hope to see a video of a little bit of action, the last gameplay was just flight, or show uss some multiplayer trailer if its arcade i dont mind, i know sim pilots will enjoy this game also

[Kartman013]

Guys, that's silly.
Flight sim lovers will definetly play demo, and will be able to get their opinion before buying the game.
Casual players have to be convinced, that even demo is not too hard and worth playing.
That's why all videos are in Arcade mode.
It is reasonable, and that's why it is so.

So, please, stop ask for a sim video - it is useless. I guess, you'll play demo in any case, even if we'll make 100 more Simulation videos, huh?

That's my point exactly. It's a game first and foremost. We need people to play it!

[haitch40]

arcade vids are fine but it would be nice to see a full length dogfight

[Jimatay]

Guys, that's silly.
Flight sim lovers will definetly play demo, and will be able to get their opinion before buying the game.
Casual players have to be convinced, that even demo is not too hard and worth playing.
That's why all videos are in Arcade mode.
It is reasonable, and that's why it is so.

So, please, stop ask for a sim video - it is useless. I guess, you'll play demo in any case, even if we'll make 100 more Simulation videos, huh?


See you say this but when you look at youtube comments of the videos or comments on another forum, hardly any (if at all) say something like "glad theres arcade mode" Mostly its comments asking about the games SIM mode and realism. So im not convinced the "mass market" do want to see arcade mode.:confused:

[Spitfire23]

Guys, that's silly.
Flight sim lovers will definetly play demo, and will be able to get their opinion before buying the game.
Casual players have to be convinced, that even demo is not too hard and worth playing.
That's why all videos are in Arcade mode.
It is reasonable, and that's why it is so.

So, please, stop ask for a sim video - it is useless. I guess, you'll play demo in any case, even if we'll make 100 more Simulation videos, huh?

Agreed, ofcourse it would be nice to see some simulation footage but as you said we are all going to download the demo before the games launch, so we will see what it's like then.

[trk29]

Yeah your right I re-read the thread. Still the point is that they understand that a demo is that important. He clearly states that it will have both sim and arcade in the demo. That should be enough said right there. The demo will speak for itself. I don't know any gamers on my list that buy a game without playing a demo. Every week I get probably 15 messages from XBL friends about a new game coming out. XBL is a rumor mill and if the demo is a good one then the game will do well even on release day, however I do think that it will do even better a little while after release day.

I just don't see TV commercials and things like that making a difference in sales in the USA. Now if it was 10 yrs ago, then yes, it would make a difference. The best marketing going on today is social networking and thats what XBL is. I also think that magazine ads and some good ads on Ign or some place like that helps.

The ps3 isn't like that as much, but on XBL a demo makes or breaks a game on the 360. The hard core sim players are going to know about the sim mode before release date. If they don't then they aren't really sim fans.
DESODE

True. I like what you said.