How works Necro Call?

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I read in some threads that the level of the raised undead creatures is the same like the dead creatures. Well at least on hard I can definitely say that this is not the case. Maybe it's the max level but certainly not the same. I got too often a bunch of lousy skeletons from level 3 creatures. Does the magic level influence the chance for better creatures? At the moment the spell seems quite worthless to me.

By the way, is the chance of the lightning spell for book of evil spell level 3 reduced in hard mode? The book is quite powerfull with this spell, but not if uses it just with a 20% chance or lower. There other good spells, but the chance of garbage spells like reduced defense seems exceptionaly high compared to my first game in normal mode, even if my hero is quite the brainiac for his level (14) with Int 24.

[Vilk]

Necro call can be very handy to use against a hero that cast himself necro call or can be useful if opponent has many necro stack. Other than that I didn't use it a lot.

The level of raised creatures isn't the same but dependent of the dead creatures level. For example all Archer will involve undead Archer. I didn't notice any random there, once you know what type will be raised you can predict what you'll get for a given dead stack. For what I quote the spell level only increase the max leadership raised.

Book of Evil is worthless for me because of spells like lightning, that's very unpleasant to see your book kill many of your creatures.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

The level of raised creatures isn't the same but dependent of the dead creatures level. For example all Archer will involve undead Archer. I didn't notice any random there, once you know what type will be raised you can predict what you'll get for a given dead stack.
Yes, in some cases it made sense, like spiders and archers. Is there somewhere a list of what creatures are transfered into which undead?


Book of Evil is worthless for me because of spells like lightning, that's very unpleasant to see your book kill many of your creatures.
Well, I summon them at the start and let their spells off. At the moment the lightning spells from the books are more powerfull than my own damage spells. If the enemy gets too close, I can still use them as 'fight books'. A level 3 book is quite powerfull although they get problems with real killer stacks. However, if they cast some nonesense at the start in important battles, it can be really annoying. Otherwise, they can easily win battles for me with minmal or even no losses. The power of the book depends extremely on the intelligence of the hero.

[Vilk]

I don't know such list but also didn't search through the net of through this forum.

I don't see how you use the book because you need cast it close to one of your unit so you need sacrifice it somehow or the book will be too close to your other troops.

Are you sure that the power of the book depends of the int? I hadn't quote that nor read it but I didn't tried much this spell.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

I don't see how you use the book because you need cast it close to one of your unit so you need sacrifice it somehow or the book will be too close to your other troops.
I move forward with one fast unit and then summon 1 - 2 books, dependent if higher magic is available. Often I don't use the max movement of the unit and then go back one field after the book was summoned. The book itself can also move one field forward before casting a spell and further books can be summoned at the side of another book. Since the books are immune to magic, the are not affected by their own spells. This way it's possible to summon book armies which move forward with a strong ranged army in their back. The lightning spell has a max range. Therfore I can predict very reliable if a lightning spell can reach my own units. The books are also powerfull fighters. If they don't mess with killer stacks, they can easily attack enemy stacks and get new spells. Sometimes I don't even use their newly gotten spells and just let them fight. In contrast to phantoms they don't vanish after 3 rounds. It's a great spell with lots of possibilities, but you have to know how and when to use it.


Are you sure that the power of the book depends of the int? I hadn't quote that nor read it but I didn't tried much this spell.
It's mentioned in the description of the book.

[Vilk]

Nice but I'm surprised that a book isn't killed in one turn when exposed like that, and that you never get hit just by moving back of one field. Is this in impossible mode? I'll definitely try around that to see by myself. For the int, lol, I had forgot this if I ever quote it.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

Nice but I'm surprised that a book isn't killed in one turn when exposed like that
A book of evil from a level 3 spell has a toughness which is comparable with a giant or cyclops. Against spells and magic damage, they are pretty much invincible.


and that you never get hit just by moving back of one field.
If your own units stay back and you target a ranged enemy stack at the other side of the battle field, there's almost no chance that you get hit. If all enemy units run forward and yours too, you probably only have one try at the start of the battle. It's simply situation dependent, and if you only target distant enemies you can't get hit too hard. Sometimes I've no problem to get by 100 - 200 damage if the opponent gets several thousand damage in exchange.


Is this in impossible mode?
It's in hard mode. Though the increased stack size are not really a big problem. If two summoned books cast lightning, and the enemy then sufferd about 10.000 damage in total, that can even reduce bigger stacks to a size that they can't kill a book anymore.
The problem is if the books use spells like sleep or reduced defense. That's just not enough for 30 mana. And on hard it seems more difficult to get real 'killer books'. In short words: The book sucks with low int characters and is great with high int characters. Though I can't give a precise min INT value to get good books or bad books since it seems to differ between the various difficulty levels.

[Razorflame]

i wonder how the hell u could get far with that strat such BOOKS are mostly useless
especially when fighting an opponent with high initiative
:)

[ArkhanTheBlack]

i wonder how the hell u could get far with that strat such BOOKS are mostly useless
especially when fighting an opponent with high initiative
Well, I don't use it all the time. Like I said, at the moment my mage doesn't seem to be smart enough to get reliable books. Therefore, currently I'm using ice snake a lot. Especially when initiative is critical.

[Vilk]

The point is that books will get attacked before they can cast anything. What's their initiative level? I'll try anyway around this, in my current game I haven't get yet the spell yet and haven't yet chaos magic to level 3 (only distortion and order when chaos is level 2). I'll try with dragon as the fast unit with high initiative and speed and by casting 2 books.

But I don't think the books will survive against many army setup in impossible mode.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

The point is that books will get attacked before they can cast anything. What's their initiative level?
That shouldn't be a problem. You can also summon them at the back to make sure that they can cast their spell. The biggest books have initiative 5 which isn't great but also not bad. You can also decide the point when you want to summon them.


But I don't think the books will survive against many army setup in impossible mode.
I think you need a very high INT to make them worthy in impossible mode.

It also depends on your other spells. My best damage spell is ice snake at the moment which causes about 3000 damage in total against 3 stacks for 20 mana + freeze effect. If the book casts lightning, the damage is usually about 5000 damage in total against 5+ enemies + shock effect for 30 mana. In addition I get a decent blocker and the chance for more spells. Therefore if the books are in a 'good mood', they can cause a lot more damage in a short time than my strongest damage spells. The only problem is to motivate them to cast this spell or at least a comparable one...
BTW, they are great against gremlin towers because they don't cast fear and weakness in this case.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

As I mentioned before, the books of evil excel in item battles because targeting the gremlin towers forces a damage spell and the mage heavy troops usually have a hard time to kill the books.
And actually, while upgrading the arch mage staff in my current harder game, I had the pleasure to experience the most powerfull book of evil I've seen so far with a level 17 mage. I'm not sure if spell powers are increased in such item battles, but one of my three books of evil got a lightning spell off which caused about 25.000 damage in total. I checked the numbers, it's not a joke. This specific book lived long enough to cast about 4 - 5 spells. Two of them were lightning spells with tremendous damage. In the whole battle it caused about 50.000 damage which is more than my entire army together was able to cause. I would definitely have lost the battle without the books.

Therefore, while the book of evil surely isn't the best choice in every situation, it's most certainly the spell with one of the highest power potentials in the game. I got this result with Int 25. Now I have Int 30 and +20% lightning damage through the arch mage staff. It'll be interesting to see how powerfull the book can get... :cool:

[Vilk]

I don't think the book take profit of the lightning spell bonus. Archmage lightning attack (but it's not the lightning spell) doesn't take profit of it.

With int 30+ and perhaps the lightning bonus I remember in normal mode to have pain to find where cast a lighting without to hurt my troops at beginning of a battle.

I still hasn't see any book spell but I shouldn't be far to have one if I remember well. I'd be curious to see how the evil book survive in impossible mode. I'm looking to use some alternate with High Magic like book+stoneskin, book+teleport or book+Divine Armor. Too bad that the mana cost is so high.

[ArkhanTheBlack]

With int 30+ and perhaps the lightning bonus I remember in normal mode to have pain to find where cast a lighting without to hurt my troops at beginning of a battle.
Not sure if it's dependent on the spell level of the lightning spell, but at the moment, a lightning can't pass a three fields gap.


I'm looking to use some alternate with High Magic like book+stoneskin, book+teleport or book+Divine Armor.
That won't work, because they are immune to spells. However, this also has the advantage that you can cast area damage spells on enemy units in combat with them, and they don't get hurt.

[Vilk]

Immune to magic? Well that restrict a lot the possibilities, not so attracting then. I doubt a lot the book can survive in most battle of impossible mode since undead land even with magic immunity. Even in elf land many battles will have too many non magic fighters.

Well despite the unpleasant random I'll try anyway for gremlin towers and to test a little.

For the range I don't know the spell description seems mention always the same distance, 4 squares, so it seems I'm wrong.

[Razorflame]

IIRC books get eaten by fire damaging spells

so they are NOT immune to magic
(IIRC)

firerain works on books

[Vilk]

I just got the evil book spell so I'll be able try a bit around it. In term of damage there are 4 types, physical, poison, fire and magic. So it's possible that the book is immune only to spells that aren't fire. The point here is not be able to cast spell on them like for black dragon.

[Vilk]

I tried quickly the evil book, in a gremlin fight, but a quite tough one because it's the upgrade to archmage staff. I cast two level 3 books and first point I remember that you didn't choose the target but in fact you do, weird I don't remember that.

One of the two books get killed in one hit. The second didn't get attacked and did a poor lightning spell that does ridiculous damages. Well my int was 16 only. Enemy was too much spread through the board that didn't help make efficient the lightning not to mention the very low efficiency against troops with magic protection.

Overall that's roughly what I was worry about. For now I'll save crystals and won't learn the spell but I'll do more attempt in different fights.